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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
Dr. Bob, sometimes I'm over the trauma of the first block, but sometimes I'm not. Dr. Bob, the first block was the absolute worst. The other blocks were almost unbearable at times, but the first was even worse than unbearable. I know you probably didn't mean to hurt me so badly, but you did. :-(
Dr. Bob, I cried and cried when I was blocked the first time. I cried the other times too, but not as much as the first time. It was really really horrible. I couldn't control myself. I was bawling in *public*. I couldn't bear it. Later even when my block was over, I was still devastated, leading to my buying a rope to hang myself. I'm not kidding.
The thing that upset me the most was the fact that you didn't reply to my e-mail asking you to write, "It's ok, :-)". Remember? No, you probably don't remember. You replied, but it was only to warn me that I couldn't switch names. Dr. Bob, I'm going to confess something to you. When I was blocked the first time, I switched names to Sandy_Star and posted I think 2 posts on the Newbie board because I was so desperate and devastated that I couldn't help myself. I don't know if you'd caught that and just warned me instead of punishing me more. I'm really sorry I deceived people into thinking I was new. I just *needed* Babble interaction. I couldn't stand being blocked.
Dr. Bob I just felt sooooo bad. I felt so bad I thought I was going to die. It was horrible. You can't imagine how horrible it was. I know it seems like I'm exaggerating, but I'm not.
I don't know why I reacted so strongly, I think maybe I felt rejected.
I know I'm whining right now, and I've already told you this, but I just needed to write it again. I know it seems really dramatic. I can't help myself. I'm dramatic sometimes, but it's all real. I swear I would tell the same story to you in person. This stuff happened in real life.
Dr. Bob, I don't know if there is a way to prevent what happened to me from happening to other people. I wish there were.
I don't think you wanted to hurt anyone like you did me. It was a horrible adverse event. I'm still not completely over it. I still have memories of that time.
I wish you could say, "There, there, sorry that happened to you", but I know you won't. :-(
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on July 1, 2006, at 0:20:01
In reply to Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
Just so you know, when I posted as Sandy_Star, I wasn't like, "Hehehe, I'm getting away with this".
I was bawling my eyes out, so dysphoric I just wanted to kill myself. I pretended I was a new member because I didn't want to get caught. I just couldn't bear being blocked.
I love you Bob, but you hurt me bad. I think I have a mild form of PTSD from the block.
I know how outrageous this sounds, but it's true in my world.
Deneb*
Posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2006, at 0:27:42
In reply to Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
(Just trying to help. I know you just forgot the warning re: what you bought.)
Sorry those memories are still so painful for you, Deneb, but I certainly believe you that they are, and I'll bet Bob believes you, too.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2006, at 11:47:16
In reply to Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
Deneb,
I'm not sure what response you could get that could help you feel very much better....
the blocks exist for a reason and they don't equal a total and absolute rejection of you as a person...your reaction to them is about why you need to seek more help in real life, in real life Deneb
Be well,
sg
Posted by Tabitha on July 1, 2006, at 14:14:23
In reply to Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
Something I notice about this. Deneb, you were really hurt by what Dr Bob did. First the block itself, then his lack of comforting response to your emails. It would make sense to be very angry toward him. Yet instead, you developed a huge love obsession with him.
I think I've done a similar thing in the past, when people rejected me. Instead of getting angry, I'd get romantic or sexual feelings toward them, and get obsessed with seducing them. I think it's because those rejections reminded me of rejections by my original caretakers (mom & dad). It was unimaginable to get angry and mom and dad and admit they had failed me. My world would fall apart if I did that. So to deal with the hurt, I'd instead feel more and more 'love' toward the person who hurt me. What did that do for me? For one, feeling that unrequited love hid my unacceptable anger from me, and protected me from having to feel the disappointment. For another, I think that trying to seduce that person was a way of imagining I could regain my power that had been lost by the rejection. Yes they hurt me, but if I could get that person involved with me romantically or sexually, then I'd feel some power over them again, and the awful feeling of powerlessness would go away.
Unfortunately it never really worked out that way, and having the love obsession only made me feel more powerless, and more angry when they didn't respond to my 'love'. Plus it just prolonged the whole thing, since I wasn't really feeling what I need to feel, which was grief and loss over the hurt. If I could feel that grief and loss, I would get over it. Feeling love obsession instead just made it go on much much longer. So it was a painful and ineffective strategy for me.
But that's me. I really hope your love for Dr Bob is something different entirely. I hope it's some harmless phase you'll eventually leave behind without more emotional pain.
Posted by Gabbi~G on July 1, 2006, at 21:38:39
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet, posted by Tabitha on July 1, 2006, at 14:14:23
Wow Tabitha
That makes so much sense.
Why didn't I know you ten years ago!
Posted by Deneb on July 1, 2006, at 23:21:32
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on July 1, 2006, at 0:20:01
Thanks for the trigger warning 10der, I forgot I wrote that part.
I hope Bob believes me, that'll make me feel better.
---
Sleepygirl, I know the blocks are important. I just needed to express my hurt. I know nothing can be done about it.
---
Tabitha, interesting theory you've got there. I really don't know if that's what's happening with me.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 0:10:19
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet » Tabitha, posted by Gabbi~G on July 1, 2006, at 21:38:39
Dr. Bob, you hurt me when you block me. You wouldn't believe how much it hurts. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being extreme pain and suffering, it's a 10. It's worse than my grandfather dying. It's worse than my hamster dying. It's worse than a panic attack. It's worse than ODing on ____, ending up in the ER and being locked up. It's worse.
If I had a choice between ODing again or getting blocked, I would OD. I would.
I know you're just doing your job when you block people, but I just wanted you to know how much it hurts me. I know it won't matter to you. I know you don't have anything to feel bad about, because it's not your fault I was devastated.
I just wish you can empathize just a tiny bit. Can you?
I just wish you could say, "There, there, sorry you were hurt". :-(
Dr. Bob, do you now understand how much it hurt me?
Dr. Bob, it hurts so badly I do crazy things like e-mail you threats and hurt myself.
:-(
Dr. Bob, I don't want you to sympathize because it feel so bad I don't want other people to feel it also. I wish you would empathize though.
It hurt immensely when you answered my e-mail with a warning. It hurt so much I would rather had died right then. It hurt so badly I think I would rather choose death.
I'm sorry Bob, I don't want to threaten suicide again, but just because I don't threaten doesn't mean it won't happen. :-(
Deneb*
Posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2006, at 4:28:21
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger*, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 0:10:19
Deneb,
I can hear how painful this was for you, and how intense you still feel when thinking about the block and the possibility of being blocked. One of the ways we can begin to heal the hurt and move forward is by moving towards acceptance. With acceptance, a person understands and accepts the whole of the event that is painful--Truly accepts it, versus fighting against feeling it. Some of what you expressed below suggest possible "sticking points" in moving towards healing, and I wanted to try to reframe them for your consideration. Feel free to take them or leave them as you see fits best for you.> Dr. Bob, you hurt me when you block me.
I believe you feel extreme hurt. But consider how it might feel if you were to view the block and the hurt from an alternate point of view: Dr Bob didn't hurt me. I feel hurt because he blocked me, though. He did not cause this hurt, he merely applied a rule as an administrator. His giving me the block was a consequence of my behavior while making posts here.
Does viewing it that way ring true in any way? How does it affect the intensity of your pain? Any change?
> I know you're just doing your job when you block people, but I just wanted you to know how much it hurts me.
And what if you said this, instead of the above? ...but I just wanted you to know how hurt I feel. Saying "how hurt I feel" is slightly different from saying "how much *it* hurts me. The latter still places the hurt within the power of the other, in this case, Dr. Bob. Whereas expressing it as "how hurt I feel" puts the power of the hurt (and subsequently to heal) within you, where you have control over it.
> I just wish you could say, "There, there, sorry you were hurt". :-(
That kind of soothing usually does feel pretty good, doesn't it? The way you phrased it is quite evocative of a loving parent soothing a crying child. That's a sweet image. I hope you have images of that from your childhood. Every child deserves and needs this kind of soothing at times. Of course, as we grow older into adulthood, we more and more have to soothe ourselves. Than can be difficult when painful emotions are felt so intensely. It's a skill that can be learned, however. (I'm still learning it, particularly when I'm in a "ramped up" emotion phase.)
The thing is, if one wishes for another to soothe, to the detriment of self-soothing, I think that's how we get stuck in pain. It puts the power to heal in an external person versus keeping it where it's most effective, within the individual. One may also wish for the person "who hurt them" to do the soothing, sometimes as a way to "prove" that they still love them. So if the person doesn't provide the soothing, our thoughts get jumbled and skewed about them and about us.
But if a person's perspective is that "I feel hurt" versus "so and so hurt me", then it can lead smoothly into self-soothing. Whereas feeling "done to" tends to lead to feeling a need for someone to "make it up".
These are subtle yet important differences in how we view our emotions, our behavior, and others behavior. Still, shifting your frame of reference from that of depending on outside factors for emotional balance to one which places the control within you can help someone start to feel less "out of control" at times with their emotions and more able to feel them, accept events, and to move forward.
>
I'd like to hear what you think about this, but you don't have to reply. You don't even have to give this any consideration if you feel it's off base. But do feel free to "try on" this perspective to see how it feels.Take care,
gg
Posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 18:41:56
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger* » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2006, at 4:28:21
> And what if you said this, instead of the above? ...but I just wanted you to know how hurt I feel. Saying "how hurt I feel" is slightly different from saying "how much *it* hurts me. The latter still places the hurt within the power of the other, in this case, Dr. Bob. Whereas expressing it as "how hurt I feel" puts the power of the hurt (and subsequently to heal) within you, where you have control over it.
I've never thought about it that way. I suppose there is a difference between feeling hurt and having something hurt me. I didn't consider that when I wrote my post. Is there anything that does hurt us? Or is it always that the person *feels* hurt. Certainly there are things that *cause* us to feel hurt...
If I were mugged, are you saying that instead of saying the mugging scared me, I should say, I felt scared when I was mugged?
> > I just wish you could say, "There, there, sorry you were hurt". :-(
>
> That kind of soothing usually does feel pretty good, doesn't it? The way you phrased it is quite evocative of a loving parent soothing a crying child. That's a sweet image. I hope you have images of that from your childhood.:-( Not really. My parents mainly ignored me when I cried.
>Every child deserves and needs this kind of soothing at times. Of course, as we grow older into adulthood, we more and more have to soothe ourselves.
I would rather someone soothe me. I'm not very good at soothing myself. I will try to learn though, because I have a feeling Dr. Bob isn't going to soothe me.
> One may also wish for the person "who hurt them" to do the soothing, sometimes as a way to "prove" that they still love them. So if the person doesn't provide the soothing, our thoughts get jumbled and skewed about them and about us.
I think if Dr. Bob doesn't soothe me that he must not care that I felt hurt. I know it's not his job to care. I just wish he did.
> But if a person's perspective is that "I feel hurt" versus "so and so hurt me", then it can lead smoothly into self-soothing. Whereas feeling "done to" tends to lead to feeling a need for someone to "make it up".
I don't like thinking that all the hurt I feel comes entirely from myself. I don't know why I would hurt myself so much. Does "I feel hurt" also mean I caused my own hurt? Can I say that the block(s) caused my hurt?
I'm going to try to self soothe by pretending to be Dr. Bob, is that okay?
Dr. Bob says, "There, there Deneb, sorry you felt hurt. I never wanted you to feel hurt."
(((((((((Deneb))))))))))
Deneb*
Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 19:42:27
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger* » gardenergirl, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 18:41:56
I"m not GG, and don't know nearly as much about this stuff, but I will throw a little of my own perspective into this mix for you.
> >
> > That kind of soothing usually does feel pretty good, doesn't it? The way you phrased it is quite evocative of a loving parent soothing a crying child. That's a sweet image. I hope you have images of that from your childhood.
>
> :-( Not really. My parents mainly ignored me when I cried.I'm very sorry to hear that. Your parents may have been acting on an old idea that children would learn to "get over it" faster if they were left to cry. It doesn't work, and children aren't spoiled by being comforted when they cry. Or, of course, your parents may not have known how to soothe you when you cried. Either way, I'm sorry you didn't get the comforting you needed.
>
> > >
> > But if a person's perspective is that "I feel hurt" versus "so and so hurt me", then it can lead smoothly into self-soothing. Whereas feeling "done to" tends to lead to feeling a need for someone to "make it up".
>
> I don't like thinking that all the hurt I feel comes entirely from myself. I don't know why I would hurt myself so much. Does "I feel hurt" also mean I caused my own hurt? Can I say that the block(s) caused my hurt?No, taking responsibility for your feelings does not mean that you are the cause of your hurt. You're not "to blame" for feeling hurt. But in most interactions with others, your reactions are what you feel, NOT something that someone else has done to you.
In the case of your example of being mugged, that's a place where I can't quite answer your question. There are places where someone else can hurt you -- I'm thinking of certain childhood incidents involving my cousin and a baseball bat here, although I'm not sure quite how that translates to behavior that leads to emotional responses, as opposed to physical pain... I think, really, that even in the case of a mugging, you're still responsible for what you feel, even if someone else has done something to elicit that response. My reasoning on it is that you might feel fear -- but you might also feel rage. Since you can feel very different things over the same incident, I'd say that you're still responsible...
On the other hand, if you look at your first block, can you see that your behavior led to the block? That means that, had you modified your behavior before being blocked, you would not have been blocked, and therefore would not feel hurt by it. In that sense, yes, you are responsible for the pain you feel about it.
Posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 21:21:11
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 19:42:27
I don't know how to get over this. :-(
I think I'm a little angry. I'm starting to think that Dr. Bob wants me dead again. I think, I'm upset over a block, Dr. Bob doesn't care, therefore Dr. Bob wants me dead? Then I think, fine, I'll kill myself if that's what you want.
I don't make sense, I just feel stuff.
I think I'm having a temper tantrum.
When I was little and upset and my Mom didn't do anything to soothe me, I would want to hurt myself. I used to think my Mom didn't care if I got hurt, so I would get angry and hurt myself. I'm screwed up. I've got personality problems.
Deneb*
Posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 22:01:14
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger*, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 21:21:11
> I don't know how to get over this. :-(
> When I was little and upset and my Mom didn't do anything to soothe me, I would want to hurt myself. I used to think my Mom didn't care if I got hurt, so I would get angry and hurt myself. I'm screwed up. I've got personality problems.
>
> Deneb*Wow Deneb*,
That sounds really hard. My parents were kind of like that too. The only way I got tucked in and nurtured was to be sick. I devised elaborate ways of faking sore throats and fevers. Now I'm in the body of an adult, and I expect my husband to respond to me when I'm moaning in bed by saying "poor llrrrpp, poor thing"... tucking me in, bringing me hot tea...mothering me. But that's not his role! He doesn't know why I want, and I end up feeling dissatisfied and unloved.It sounds like you learned one way to get the attention that children need from their parents. It's not the only way though.
I think you are learning so many things about yourself right now. It's exciting and probably scary too. I bet you and a sensitive T could figure out healthy ways to express these feelings. I don't want to seem pushy, but I just think you sound like you're really ready for the next step in figuring yourself out, and how you fit into your family and your world.
your friend,
-ll
Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:53
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger*, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2006, at 21:21:11
Deneb, I won't comment on whether or not you have what you describe as "personality problems." I don't know you, except on this site, and so I'm not in a position to form a real opinion. My comments are all based on *your* current assessment that you have "personality problems."
But if that is a problem, you've identified it. Great first step.
What about looking at possible solutions? That really is the next step.
Maybe part of the solution for tonight is challenging your own distorted belief patterns? You say that you're aware right now that you've got some anger going on, and some of the older "Dr Bob wants me dead" thinking in there, too. If those are your beliefs tonight, how will you challenge them?
Honestly, Deneb, if you really and truly want to ease the discomfort you're feeling now, there are two things you can do to improve the quality of your life: start seeing a therapist, and take your medication, as directed by your pdoc, consistently.
What is it that holds you back from taking your medication? Is it just the stigma attached? If that's it, who are you really trying to hide it from? No one else ever has to know what you take. Period. Any time you tell someone what meds you're on, that's your choice, your decision. You, your doctor, and your pharmacist. Those are really and truly the only people who have any reason to know what you take. And besides -- APs are given for anxiety, as well as for psychosis. I think most of us here on the board know that you're not psychotic, although we also know that you do have certain thinking patterns that are a mite distorted, and that the medications -- when taken appropriately -- help you with that.
And why won't you start therapy? I know you've been seeing your pdoc for a while, but what you've got going on is not therapy. Therapy is very helpful, Deneb. Take it from me. What holds you back? Is it fear that someone would think less of you because you're in therapy? Get right over that. I know all sorts of people who have NO mental health issues whatsoever who have gotten therapy for one reason or another. Something's happened, like being laid off, or a death in the family, and they go to a therapist to help them cope. It's nothing shameful. (Or, look at the Woody Allen characters who are in analysis? Those characters made psychoanalysis one of the most fashionable ways to spend one's time and money.) Is it fear that you're not going to be able to face what you'll learn about yourself? That's part of my own fear surrounding therapy, Deneb, so I feel qualified to say that a good therapist will not overface you, and the fear about what horrible things might be in there is much worse than the fear involved in discovery. Are you afraid you'll have to work at it? Well, that's a legitimate fear, Deneb. If it's going to be successful, you will have to work. But it's not a bad thing, and you may find that you enjoy it.
Heck, Deneb -- think of this: someone whose job it is to listen to you, to pay attention to you, for an hour at a time! How bad can that be?
I hope you can challenge your thoughts tonight, especially since I would feel sad if anything bad happened to you.
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2006, at 22:39:20
In reply to Ok, now that you've identified a problem... » Deneb, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 22:08:53
Deneb are still taking your meds? You didn't stop the wellbutrin or resperidol did you? Love Phillipa ps please stay on your meds you're so much fun then. Even now your fun how is Buttertart?
Posted by gardenergirl on July 3, 2006, at 23:32:24
In reply to Re: Not over first block yet *trigger* » Deneb, posted by llrrrpp on July 2, 2006, at 22:01:14
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 4, 2006, at 5:03:06
In reply to Not over first block yet, posted by Deneb on June 30, 2006, at 23:50:04
> I wish you could say, "There, there, sorry that happened to you"
I'm sorry whenever I block someone. It's an unfortunate part of this job. :-(
Bob
Posted by Deneb on July 4, 2006, at 9:59:33
In reply to Re: sorry this happens, posted by Dr. Bob on July 4, 2006, at 5:03:06
You do care. :-) I was imaginining the worse, but I shouldn't have. You hugged me, I should remember that.
Thanks for the reply. I should bookmark it now so I don't forget it.
Deneb*
This is the end of the thread.
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