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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 14:10:11
In reply to Karen , thanks, posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 14:01:53
I really admire how brave you are to be that vulnerable.
I'm sorry you felt hurt. I've been there plenty of times myself, and didn't handle it nearly as graciously as you.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 14:37:24
In reply to Re: ((((Jai)))), posted by Dinah on December 9, 2003, at 14:10:11
This whole thing is giving my jumpy stomach a roller coaster ride. Thanks for your support.
Dinah, a while ago you helped me when I had trouble with my password and you asked me about my name. I went back to try to find that conversation. You asked me what my lovely name meant...that's how you said it. Well I was so touched that the whole experience went into my dreams.
I dreamed that you were whispering that in my ear and I was entranced. It was such an amazing dream...I have no idea how you would have said it in person but in my dreams your voice was lilting and beautiful.
Before I got my name I was in morning meditation asleep and I dreamed someone whispered it in my ear. That name came in the mail weeks later. So to make a long story short??? I love the name too and appreciate that you asked the way you did.
Jai Narayan
Posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 14:55:04
In reply to gosh, I'm really sorry., posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 9:10:22
> > Lar has already spelt out to you that he has a sweetheart. Then he asked you to respect that realm of his life...
>
> I thought I had been clear and I thought I had communicated my clairty to him through a post...I am not interested in any way other than friendship....
> > So WHY don't you just leave him alone on that point instead of keepin on and on...
> >
> I am so sorry this has upset you...if I could take back my silly comment I would...but truely I am being silly...
> No harm intended...please forgive me, I am still new at all of this and obviously can make mistakes...
> peace?
> Jai Narayan
>
>Sure, peace.
I'm sorry it came over so harsh. I should have phrased it better.I just could not work out why anyone would think of starting to call anyone "honey" if it is not something you are used to doing, not something you are comfortable with as in it doesn't come naturally, and they haven't encouraged you? Like why "honey" all of a sudden then?
Perhaps I missed something?So that line , to me, came over all wrong..like it was some game, which you didn't want to stop.
I've been reading on this forum for a couple of months and I've felt uncomfortable...as I think perhaps others may too..but perhaps it is all just me.
I'm sorry if I got it all wrong. Did I miss something?
Please accept my apologies if I've misinterpreted anything,
Jade
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 16:20:15
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. me2 » Jai Narayan, posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 14:55:04
Really people have felt uncomfortable? With what?
I guess when our friendship started up I asked lots of questions and compared notes about our lives and I was amazed at how similar our lives had been. Even Larry had said, "birds of a feather"... I guess for me it had to settle down to where we just got to defining how we could relate.
I was impressed with Larry…now honestly I don't know for a fact who he is…I am just impressed with the persona that I have interacted with. He's (if Larry is really a he) a kind, intelligent and helpful person. Who wouldn't be impressed?
A lot of his traits are among my most important.
It was an attraction that developed into friendship...I am committed to someone I dearly love and would never threaten that. Larry was clear about where he was at...why would anyone else feel uncomfortable? I am still confused.
But I want to thank you for further communicating with me.I appreciate that it must have been hard for you to have asked these questions. I support your courage in seeking the truth.
Jai Narayan
Posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 19:50:12
In reply to that is so sweet. me2, posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 16:20:15
> Really people have felt uncomfortable? With what?
> I guess when our friendship started up I asked lots of questions and compared notes about our lives and I was amazed at how similar our lives had been. Even Larry had said, "birds of a feather"... I guess for me it had to settle down to where we just>got to defining how we could relate.
Exactly, but I think Lar tried to very succinctly but kindly define "how we could relate"
> I was impressed with Larry…now honestly I don't know for a fact who he is…I am just impressed with the persona that I have interacted with. He's (if Larry is really a he) a kind, intelligent and helpful person. Who wouldn't be impressed?
That's so sweet...
And yes he is, isn't he...and most people on this site are extremely grateful for his help and kind words. His help to some have really made a huge difference in their lives...but your reaction came across to me as being overexaggerated...especially considering all it appeared you did was have a chat about a few things like going out in a canoe with your partner to watch some birds?
Of course again, maybe I am missing something?....but that how it came across to me.Also "(if Larry is a he)"...here again, well I guess I should give you the benefit of doubt too..perhaps you react like that to females and males? no judgements being made, of course...
But again your words were exaggerated to the point where it did cause "discomfort" to me reading it, and I assume to many others ..not to mention probably Larry himself or his sweetheart.
A lot of his traits are among my most important.
> It was an attraction that developed into friendship...I am committed to someone I dearly love and would never threaten that. Larry was clear about where he was at...why would anyone else feel uncomfortable? I am still confused.That's so sweet too, but you still haven't answered my Question of why you felt you should call him honey when it wasn't a custom of yours and nothing has occurred that I can see to cause this change....
I still cannot work out why anyone would think of starting to call anyone "honey" if it is not something you are used to doing, not something you are comfortable with as in it doesn't come naturally, and they haven't encouraged you?
Like why "honey" all of a sudden then?
and what did "I guess I can do it too" mean exactly?..like why start now and then post that ..like you are doing "it" too even though you feel uncomfortable doing it?..for no reason I can work out? and what does too mean..?
Perhaps I missed something, but that line can be taken quite a no of ways?As I posted before ...That line, to me, came over all wrong..like it was some game, which you didn't want to stop.
> But I want to thank you for further communicating with me.thank you too
>
> I appreciate that it must have been hard for you to have asked these questions. I support your courage in seeking the truth.
> Jai NarayanThanks again Jai.. it must be hard for you to face these questions and I appreciate your attempts to answer.
Jade
Posted by six on December 9, 2003, at 20:25:35
In reply to Re: that is so sweet. me2 » Jai Narayan, posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 19:50:12
Thank-you Jade, for broaching such a delicate topic.
Yes people have been made to feel uncomfortable
I am one of them. Jai I don't know if you can see this or not, but Lar, has tried to establish clear boundaries several times and it hasn't worked, that's why it has come to this. Of course no one wanted you to feel bad.When you refer to yourself as a red-blooded woman who can't wait to hear from him, Or become upset when he doesn't answer your posts when you think he should, and advertise your upset in the subject headings for everyone to see, it puts someone in an a terrible position.
You say you want to be friends, friendships take time, and they require listening.After Lar's second reminder, this was when you called him honey.. no in itself this calling someone honey IS no big deal, however its not something you normally do, and you pointed this out to him. And you did this AFTER he asked you to tone things down.
It does appear to be a game. And yes he is being put in a very awkward position, I know this to be true.
You speak of kindness frequently
but kindness is an action, and I believe there are other people's feelings to consider here.
If this was truly not your intention, then perhaps its a kindness that Jade let you know how your actions are coming across, as hard as that might be to take.
Posted by six on December 9, 2003, at 20:28:20
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Jai Narayan, posted by Karen_kay on December 9, 2003, at 11:55:47
Karen please don't assume Jade was being nasty by taking one post out of context. Its an easy thing to do, but appearances can be decieving.
Posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 21:39:56
In reply to Re: that is so sweet. me2 » JadeT, posted by six on December 9, 2003, at 20:25:35
I'm sorry to hear you were made to feel uncomfortable by this.
And yes, I was hoping that,..just by taking one small example... I could let Jai know how her posts are coming across and show how they are causing discomfort, .. so that I could hopefully prevent any further discomfort.
We are all interconnected so Lar's discomfort and his sweetheart's if she reads these posts are being felt by many.
Jade
six....you express it so well
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Jai Narayan, posted by Karen_kay on December 9, 2003, at 11:55:47
> Sheesh! All she did was call him honey!
No, that's not all she did. In this instance, that's correct, but it is the sequence of events that carries the significance and the feeling of offense. Context is all important.
> I call people honey all the time too... Is that a big deal? If it is, isn't it his place to point it out, if he feels that it is in fact threatening.
Two issues arise: a) I had already stated that the consequence for failing to heed the expression of my discomfort would be my unwillingness to take part in any further discourse with Jai. Present circumstances argue against silence at this time...; b) it is a big deal. It matters little that the intent was innocent. I speak of the impact, of my reaction, of my feelings. Coming so closely on the heels of my expression of my boundaries, well....at the very least, it was insensitive.
> I just think there is no point in making her feel accused if there is no reason warrenting the accusation. I say, leave it to Larry.
The posters who have raised issues here, Jade and six, are in fact in full knowledge of my feelings. In essence, there is full justification for their posts. They both knew just how uncomfortable I have become with not having my clearly expressed boundaries respected. They knew I was upset. They knew I didn't want to post. They knew it was important to offer me support. They have both talked to me at great length. They are both fully aware of how I really feel. They are both speaking from their own hearts.
> Just my two cents, hun!
> KarenWill all due respect, I would ask you to back away from the issue for the time being.
I have spent way too much time and energy on this. I wanted it to just go away, but it's not going to, apparently. I have all kinds of supporting people in my non-Babble world, and they are perhaps tired of seeing the extent of my discomfort, coming as it does at a time of my not feeling strong already. They exhibited courage in coming forward at a time when I was not so able, and I am grateful for their support. Let me assure you that they do speak with me, but not for me.
Sincerely,
Lar
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 8:13:31
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
I hope you aren't feeling uncomfortable. :(
I know I am.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 9:30:23
In reply to Re: that is so sweet. me2 » Jai Narayan, posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 19:50:12
Hello Jade
>but your reaction came across to me as being overexaggerated...especially considering all it appeared you did was have a chat about a few things like going out in a canoe with your partner to watch some birds?
Of course again, maybe I am missing something?....but that how it came across to me.
*
Let me get this; I am being questioned because I am overly friendly and saying things that are too exaggerated. That's me…when I like something or someone I gush….Maybe it's cuz I'm too (some people like it) enthusiastic verbally. I gush when I see: babies, dogs, birds….I have intense emotions/reactions. For some reason I had the impression if there was anywhere I could be accepted for having intense emotions it would be here on psycho babble…hummm?
Okay lets cut to the real puzzle: WHY DID I SAY "H O N E Y". I said it because it seems the people here say it a lot and I was touched by that term of affection when it was said to me. I was trying on that verbal affection term. True it was not my normal way but a few people had said that to me and I was moved. I wanted to be light, easy…comfortable. Wow did I read all this wrong!Also "(if Larry is a he)"....
My questioning is part of the effect of feeling like this whole thing is so unreal now. I don't know what reality is now. I am questioning if this is all a bad dream…if anyone is, who they seem to say they are… I have lost the thread of reality…
>here again, well I guess I should give you the benefit of doubt too..perhaps you react like that to females and males? no judgements being made, of course...It all feels like judgement….
>Thanks again Jai.. it must be hard for you to face these questions and I appreciate your attempts to answer.all right where are we now? I feel very weary….what have I gained by jumping through these hoops? Will I be forgiven? Or will I just continue to be a target? I need to know. If you have more questions I will try my best to answer them but I am real tired and sad now. Wow who would have guessed…I so enjoyed Larry Hoover and wanted to share that with him….and I end up hurt and I end up hurting others….
I hope all these questions are going somewhere?????I have a few questions. Do you see Larry as a victim? Are you rescuing him?
All I can say from the bottom of my heart.."I am so sorry if I hurt anyone…that makes me real sad."
Jai Narayan
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 9:42:37
In reply to nightmare on babble street, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 9:30:23
Perhaps at this point you should concentrate on other posters here on Babble and let Lar take the lead in contacting you if he wishes to. That's just total pragmatism on my part, not a judgement of any sort.
But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of Babblers who want to talk to you! I for one would welcome your participation in any discussion. I would be delighted to chat with you, and while I can't speak for other Babblers, I can't imagine why others wouldn't be delighted to chat with you too.
Please don't let this one matter keep you from interacting with others here.
Posted by Medusa on December 10, 2003, at 9:50:38
In reply to nightmare on babble street, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 9:30:23
Jai, here's another perspective ...
People form connections at different paces, in different ways. A lot of how we connect is formed by our parents' ways of relating to us.
Friendships tend to form between people who have similar rates and styles of connecting. If a match is "off", generally the party with more sensitivity to the process will send off alarm signals. If the other person has a robust set of either instinctive or developed social skills AND the connection is important to him or her, s/he will pay attention to those alarm signals and revise his/her approach to the relationship.
If no revision takes place, or if the revision doesn't meet the 'slower' party's needs, the connection usually shatters. Or takes on a hostage quality. Sometimes this is overt. In some cultures, it's done so subtly that the rapid-connecter isn't aware of why the target disappeared.
Could it be that something like this was going on here? I've been in several situations where I felt an immediate connection and then proceeded to express that much more rapidly and broadly and specifically than the other party was comfortable with. It's taken a while for my confidence in myself (and my own connect-ability) to get to the point where I can tolerate the anxiety of slowing down. Actually, I'm often the slower party. It's kind of nice to sit back and see what happens when I don't invest too much, to see which way the boulder rolls when I'm not pushing it - or whether it rolls at all. Sometimes it's pleasant to sit back against a boulder and enjoy it right where it is, making no demands, just being with the boulder and feeling the strength and the cold of the granite, seeing the moss and lichens covering its shins and shoulders. And accepting that the boulder's the boulder, and I'm the tired hiker. And we're both worth a lot, just the way we are.
Posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 9:54:28
In reply to nightmare on babble street, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 9:30:23
Jai,
I just wanted to say you are *not* a target, or anything like that. I *think* and I speak for no one but myself, that this is just an issue of identifying and respecting one another's boundaries.
>>I have intense emotions/reactions.
<<Yeah, me too. I feel for ya. :-)>>For some reason I had the impression if there was anywhere I could be accepted for having intense emotions it would be here on psycho babble…hummm?
<<I think we all try really hard to accept others. I also think that there are difficulties in *only* communicating in writing, so people don't always know *precisely* what another person is saying/feeling...and feelings are bound to get hurt or misunderstood and all that. Which is why communication is so imperative.>Wow who would have guessed…I so enjoyed Larry Hoover and wanted to share that with him….and I end up hurt and I end up hurting others….
<<Yeah, I think many people feel that way about Larry. He's a wealth of information on meds and alternative medicine and stuff, and he's also very knowledgable about interpersonal relationships, communication, and coping skills.It seemed to me (again only speaking for myself) that you were flirting hard with him. Which is fine. But then it also seemed like he established boundaries and said he didn't want to be flirted with so hard. Which is fine, too. I guess the *honey* thing after he tried to establish boundaries *looked* like you were not respecting those boundaries.
It's very hard to determine intent here, we can only go by actions.
> I have a few questions. Do you see Larry as a victim? Are you rescuing him?
<<Nah, Larry's not a victim. I think the strain and tension of the thread became apparent to several people, and we want *both* you and Larry to be comfortable again.Nobody's perfect here. Most definitely not me, so I don't know if I've helped at all with this post or made things worse. We can all learn from this place -- how to communicate better, how to cope better, how to care better.
:-)
Susan
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 10:03:13
In reply to Well said » six, posted by JadeT on December 9, 2003, at 21:39:56
> So WHY don't you just leave him alone on that point instead of keepin on and on...
> So that line , to me, came over all wrong..like it was some game, which you didn't want to stop.
> your reaction came across to me as being overexaggerated...
>
> your words were exaggerated to the point where it did cause "discomfort" to me reading it, and I assume to many others ..not to mention probably Larry himself or his sweetheart.
>
> you still haven't answered my Question of why you felt you should call him honey
>
> I still cannot work out why anyone would think of starting to call anyone "honey"
>
> Like why "honey" all of a sudden then?
>
> That line, to me, came over all wrong..like it was some game, which you didn't want to stop.> We are all interconnected so Lar's discomfort and his sweetheart's if she reads these posts are being felt by many.
Please don't pressure others, post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, or jump to conclusions about them. Or post under more than one name at the same time. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 10:16:02
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by six on December 9, 2003, at 20:28:20
> people have been made to feel uncomfortable
>
> When you refer to yourself as a red-blooded woman who can't wait to hear from him ... it puts someone in an a terrible position.
>
> It does appear to be a game. And yes he is being put in a very awkward position> Karen please don't [take] one post out of context.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 10:17:31
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
> at the very least, it was insensitive.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:18:18
In reply to ((((Karen Kay)))), posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 8:13:31
> I hope you aren't feeling uncomfortable. :(
>
> I know I am.<<I'm not at all feeling uncomfortable. I personally (!!!) just feel that if Jai's comment was taken out of line, then Larry should be the one to say so, no one else. And I'm sure if someone were to post somethig similar to the original post to me, I would feel hurt. Just wanted to give Jai some much needed support. I was sure she didn't mean anythign by the comment. Uncomfortable, well, maybe a little, but the hug sure helped!! Just felt I was saying soemthing that needed to be said!
Karen
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:19:41
In reply to Re: ((((Karen Kay)))), posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:18:18
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:29:43
In reply to Karen , thanks, posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 14:01:53
Jai,
You are welcome. I realize as I post on here, that I too become vulnerable. Even rereading before posting doesn't always catch it either! I notice a lot after I read old posts just how vulnerable I allow myself to become. But, what can you do? I do notice that Larry isn't always appreciative of affectiate terms. I, on the other hand am. So, if you feel the need to use them, don't waste them on him, use plenty of them on me!!! Maybe that is just the realiionship that he prefers to have with people on this board. Whereas some people prefer to use affectionate terms, others do not.
I really hope that I do not start a big mess here. What I'm trying to do is focus on the ways that different people communicate. I, on one hand use terms like hun and darling without a second thought. Others may avoid terms like that.
There, I was being honest with you honey. But, don't take too much of what everyone says to heart. I do think that everyone on this board is here with a purpose, and that is for support. And, I am here to support you as well. But, don't forget to support yourself. Feel free to defend yourself if it is warranted. And I will do the same for you too! :)
Karen
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:12:43
In reply to boundaries on babble street » Jai Narayan, posted by Medusa on December 10, 2003, at 9:50:38
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:19:57
In reply to Re: nightmare on babble street » Jai Narayan, posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 9:54:28
Posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 20:42:29
In reply to thank you I totally appreciated your input (nm), posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:19:57
Well at least I've been somewhere that seems similar. I've been really eager to connect with people, and gotten crushes (innocent platonic ones I thought) and then when I thought I was just being playful, people reacted as though I'd done something terribly socially and even sexually inappropriate. I was mortified. Cast out. The butt of jokes and rumors. Disbelieved when I tried to explain myself. It's painful to remember.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:48:06
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
Dear Larry, I am so sorry, I really had no idea you were being so put upon. I just really didn't know how much pain I was putting you through. I feel terrible. I never meant to hurt you...I feel like such a jerk.
Sorry.Jai Narayan
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 21:03:05
In reply to Re: I've been there » Jai Narayan, posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 20:42:29
I am just having a good cry. I feels so bad. It feels like I did something really really bad. I feel like a child who has been really really bad. but I'm not a child, I am an adult....go figure. It must be deeper than I thought...I am reacting to something real old. This morning it felt like my mother scolding me about my loving my dad. I had a good cry in the shower...I felt better now I feel worse...what did I do??? It just seems like I didn't see, hear, pay attention to what effect I was having on Larry.
Larry is such a good guy.
I guess I will move through this too.
Jai Narayan
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