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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 16:32:43
No matter the medication, no matter how hard I try to hold it together, it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. I'm in pain, physically and emotionally. I just have no resources left, and no way to restore those I may once have had. I just don't want to go on with this anymore when it doesn't get any better.
I've looked for help. There just isn't any. My husband had me taken to the EPS the other day, where they let me go home again. When they started their Pollyanna routine, about how there are resources available, I told them there weren't -- told them what I'd tried, and they admitted I was right. There just aren't any resources out there right now, there wasn't anything they could do to help me, beyond locking me into a hospital ward to make sure I was protected from dangerous things like shoelaces.
Now I want to know, from others who might understand. This is an unbearable existence for me. There are no resources available to me for treatment. There is no social support available to me. The physical pain and emotional anguish are unbearable. At what point is suicide euthanesia, when is it the most humane solution? I'm not willing to continue like this any more. I hope for a quick answer, because I have the tools ready, only waiting a few hours now.
Thank you for your answer.
Posted by tina on July 3, 2003, at 16:48:11
In reply to Suicide? Why not?, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 16:32:43
I understand the desire to end a painful existence Racer. I think most of us here do. I really hope you don't though. I won't toss you any cliches or Pollyanna "keep your chin up" crap. I only wish and hope that you find a glimmer of something that pokes a hole in the darkness and gets you through one more day and then another glimmer that gets you through the next. I'm so sorry Racer. I want to help but I just don't know how except to tell you that I don't want you to go.
hugs
tina
Posted by Jonathan on July 3, 2003, at 17:48:12
In reply to Suicide? Why not?, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 16:32:43
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030626/msgs/239050.html
Posted by Greg on July 3, 2003, at 19:01:00
In reply to Suicide? Why not?, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 16:32:43
Oh damn Racer, it's always so hard to know what to say. When I'm feeling anything close to what you're feeling, I don't feel like there's an answer anywhere, anyhow. But somehow it passes and I'm still here. We all hope this will pass for you too, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week, but we hope it will pass. And this won't be an option to you.
I don't have answers. It's a question that's always baffled me, and all I've ever been able to do is ride it out. I'm not a religious person, but I'm praying for you, with all my heart and soul. And selfishly, I don't want you to go.
Greg
Posted by coral on July 3, 2003, at 20:39:50
In reply to Suicide? Why not?, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 16:32:43
Dear Racer,
Have you seen the movie "What Dreams May Come"?
During my stay in hell, one thought that kept me from taking the dive into the abyss was "What if it's worse?"....
(((((((((((((Racer)))))))))))))))
When everything comes through filters of black, it's hard, bitterly hard, to continue. Perhaps putting yourself in the hands of another right now would keep you safe until there is a twinkling of light?
Coral
Posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 20:49:22
In reply to Re: Suicide? Why not?, posted by coral on July 3, 2003, at 20:39:50
Maybe that's the problem: I've been here before, and I know what comes next. I just can't face going through it again.
Here it is: even if I did get through the next few days, I'm still left with the same pains. For so long now, I've been so over-extended, with no relief. It's like someone who's living paycheck to paycheck, who gets a bill for a new clutch and loses that job on the same day. I'm not getting that emotional paycheck, and haven't for so long now that I'm just flat out broke -- probably too much in debt to get out. Even if I got through these days, that wouldn't change.
It bothers me that my husband will be devastated by this, but I just can't face trying anymore.
Posted by shar on July 3, 2003, at 22:15:15
In reply to Re: Suicide? Why not? » coral, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 20:49:22
> Maybe that's the problem: I've been here before, and I know what comes next. I just can't face going through it again.
>
> I'm not getting that emotional paycheck, and haven't for so long now that I'm just flat out broke -- probably too much in debt to get out. Even if I got through these days, that wouldn't change....What you wrote there really spoke to me. I'm not doing so great either of late, and it feels like what you describe. Being skinless, or bare to the bones with nothing left to hold on to, just skeletal emotionally.
...As far as you not doing yourself in (reasons not to) I'm with Coral on the one hand: What if it's worse? It really could be. On the other hand, I have my 'not til you're 50' rule because after a half a century of trying anybody ought to be able to go in peace.
...The way it is now--you say you're overextended, and I bet that isn't just emotionally. I would bet you have too many stressors in your life and this isn't just some out-of-the-blue brain chemistry thing. Correct me if I'm wrong. The deal is, stressors can be dealt with in many ways, as unpleasant as it may be. Brain chemistry can be dealt with, too, but you know how that goes--so much trial and error.
...It's generous of you to think of your beloved, but I've never felt like staying for someone else was a good enough reason. However, if I had my druthers, I'd want you to stay if only for me because I am so fond of you and it would be so awful to lose you. Not having you here regularly hasn't decreased my fondness, and I know you're still out there. Not having you here and knowing you're lost to me forever will be a major downer.
...I wish you'd at least post a little about what is going on in your life. I can't shake the feeling that there is a lot of shit going on that is affecting you--working synergistically with your depression to make things even worse.
(((Racer))) you're still the Messiah to me!
xoxo
Shar
Posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 23:41:07
In reply to Re: Suicide? Why not? » Racer, posted by shar on July 3, 2003, at 22:15:15
I don't know if I have the energy to tell it all, too much of it is too ugly for me right now. I'm online, waiting for my husband to go to bed, reading the Straight Dope, so here's as much as I can manage.
First of all, for those of you who live near the Silicon Valley, you won't be surprised to hear that my husband was laid off last year. March, 2002. He's still not working, we're out of savings, he's not doing much, but he wants me to listen to everything that happens to him. I'm the only person he sees regularly, so he wants someone to talk to and I'm the only one he has. He was devastated by the loss of his job, and needs support, but I'm so tired. He won't listen to me, either when I'd suggest other things he could do to look, or when I'd ask him to let me be quiet for a while. Around the same time, I quit my job and went independant. That worked for a while, but then it all fell apart. I'm out of business now.
Meantime, I don't know if I ever mentioned that my husband and I were having problems before we were married. We hadn't had sex at all for 16 months, and then had to rent dirty videos for him to manage it. Way back when that all started, in 2001, I think, he told me he wasn't interested because I'd gained so much weight I just wasn't attractive anymore. He denies that now, but we're still not having sex. I know he's having a lot of trouble, himself, but he won't do anything about it. No counseling, no doctor, no nothing that I suggest. He says he has reasons, I say they're excuses, he says no they're legitimate reasons.
With all this going on, I was willingly seduced. After so long, it was so good! I was swept up in it, and did something I now see as stupid beyond belief: while out of town, I wrote him some emails -- which he'd encouraged -- and responded in kind to some of his voicemails. Last weekend, he was killed in a car crash. On Monday, his wife found at least one voicemail (saying I don't know what), and the next morning the emails. How do I know? Monday night I got a threatening telephone call, from someone who was with her when she heard it. She had the people with her listen to it, too. The next morning, she replied to the emails she found. Very ugly stuff, telling me that I'd destroyed her memories of her marriage, was a whore, should burn in hell -- and then she got abusive about it. Finally, in the last email she sent to me, she threatened to tell my husband. After a great deal of thought, and talking to my ex-bf for advice, I told my husband. He already knew, because she had already contacted him. He blames himself, since he left me vulnerable to another man's advances. Now everyone is hurting.
I know, that's not enough to cause someone to suicide, but at this point: that affair was about the only thing in my life that felt at all good. It was like my only emotional paycheck, and now it's as ugly as it can be. Everyone's hurt, there's no where for me to turn for comfort, and there's just more demands on whatever I have left. My husband wants me to do this for him, do that for him, and I just can't! My last emotional paycheck just bounced, and the creditors are banging on the door. I don't want to go on with this. It's been a failure, with sod all to show for it. I think I'll sit the next one out.
And I really do feel even more guilty that I'll be hurting my husband, but that's just not enough anymore.
Posted by shar on July 4, 2003, at 0:51:23
In reply to Re: some of what's going on » shar, posted by Racer on July 3, 2003, at 23:41:07
Yowza!!
With all that incredible amount of stuff draining you and dragging you down and assaulting you, I'd say this is not a good time to make a final exit type decision. It's too bad you're not a drama queen, or you would be at the top of your game right now! You could be swooning, crying, doing some Scarlett O'Hara stuff..."as God is my witness..." and even Bette Davis or Joan Crawford.
How good are you at getting into role playing?
Seriously, I can just feel all that stuff dragging on you and weighing on you, and feeling like it is too much to bear. I hope you'll give it 24 or 48 hours. I truly believe that the serious decision of ending it all deserves the cold light of day, and emotional clarity. With all that's happened, your clarity is understandably clouded. You've been assaulted, you are suffering a terrible loss, and I imagine everything seems wrong and bad.
It is a ton of stuff to take in. Too much to take in all at once so it makes sense you'd look for an exit. Somewhere, tho, I'm positive there is a part of you that can muster up some anger at these things that have ruined your present life. Just hating those things for happening and stomping around and throwing a fit...without explanations and apologies. A doozie of a fit, too, not just kicking the trash can or slamming a door. This calls for serious measures. I've cleared a desktop or two in my lifetime (making sure, of course, that the breakables were avoided) and it felt pretty damn good. And, a really good fit can last quite a while. You can even take a break, have some tea, then start again. "I just can't take it" is a good mantra for a proper fit. If it comes down to it, that's better than doing yourself in.
When you can write more, please do.
(((Racer)))
Shar
Posted by coral on July 4, 2003, at 3:46:55
In reply to Re: Suicide? Why not?, posted by coral on July 3, 2003, at 20:39:50
Dear Racer,
You're going through extreme grief (like that's NEWS to you). Loss, guilt, .... and that's just the start of the list.
I'm w/Shar on this one. A good, old-fashioned hissy fit is in order. I'm known for shattering dishes w/a baseball bat.
It's all too fresh, too acute, to make any truly significant decision right now.
((((((((Racer))))))))))
Coral
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2003, at 4:15:55
In reply to Re: All the stuff...., posted by coral on July 4, 2003, at 3:46:55
Just don't want to be. I can't quite make up my mind to do it, though, which I guess is why I posted here in the first place, but also a sign that I don't really want to do it.
Then again, I don't want to be alive and having to keep going through all this.
My husband is upstairs, in bed, asleep, knowing that I'm contemplating suicide. I know he doesn't know what to do, but I can't believe he's just gone upstairs to bed. That's kind of a sign of what's going on for me, though. All day he's been either hovering, trying to get me to laugh, or telling me I'm being melodramatic, or trying to get me to talk about it with him, or telling me he needs me. I know he needs me, that's part of the problem. Now, when there's a greater danger, he's gone, without any idea that this is when it's most dangerous for me.
So many times, people tell me all sorts of things about what I've posted here, how valuable it's been, whatever. My husband tells me he couldn't cook breakfast properly while I was away. If I've got so damn much going for me, why can't this pain ever go away? Why is it always working in an emotional deficit? Am I just so bloody needy that I can't ever be satisfied?
And no matter how shallow it is, when that man seduced me, it felt so good! It had been so long since anyone touched me as if he enjoyed it, as if he really wanted me. Now that he's gone, selfish as it is, all I can think of is that I'll never feel good like that again. Even knowing it was false, I still needed it so much.
What the hell is wrong with me? Even my own husband doesn't want me. Sure, he needs me, but anyone who'd cook breakfast and listen to him would do. This just isn't worth it. It's not nearly enough to make up for the pain.
I don't know what I'll do.
Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 11:06:13
In reply to Re: Still alive, posted by Racer on July 4, 2003, at 4:15:55
Racer--
Where do I begin?
You are in crisis mode. How things look right now are not necessarily how they will look at another time.
You've had some terrible things happen. Just about all the major stressors a person can have all at once.
It seems right now that there is no treatment option. BUT, you have responded well to treatment in the past. It is just that with all the extreme stress and crisis, a relapse can happen. IT doesn't mean you won't respond to treatment again. It just means that you need crisis help first to get things more stable.
Maybe you should be in the hospital until you are out of danger. Why did they send you home after evalutating you?
It isn't true that no one will want you--you had the attention of that other man. Your husband's lack of desire sounds based on his own problems. Unemployment and money problems can be so devastating for relationships.
You are in grief. And unfortunately, the circumstances are such that you cannot grieve openly or with other people. You are getting vitriol from the others who grieve the loss of this man. That is their own issue--probably displaced from the anger at the deceased that they won't admit. Grieving alone is so hard. So hard.
Please don't hurt yourself. I know you have been in a better place and I am sure you can get back to a better place. Please suspend judgment about your life right now. You are not in a place where you are capable of judging correctly.
Get help. Please. there are treatment possibilities. There are ways for you and your husband to get help. Or, if you cannot stay in the marriage, you can have a life worth living. There are all kinds of possibilities for making changes to make things better. You just can't see them now because of how deeply depressed you are.
I don't understand how the hospital let you go with such active suicidal thinking. Did you not disclose to them how bad things are for you right now? Do you want one of us to call them and tell them how bad things are for you? I think you need to be in the hospital, I really do.
Racer, you are someone I've admired for a long time. I want you to stay alive.
Depression is a horrible thing. Some of the events you've been through are also horrible and devastating. But you are worth saving--to pull through all of this crap. I know that you probably don't see yourself right now as others see you--we know you and know that this depressed state is not the whole you.
I hope this doesn't come across as Pollyann-ish. It isn't intended to be. It is just that, although I haven't been through the horrendous experiences you've been through of late, I do know from my own experience how depression can make everything seem utterly hopeless. You cannot see your hope right now. Can we hold hope for you until you are ready to hold it for yourself?
The other side does exist. I never would have beleived that I could come through the depression to this side. But it exists. You've come through it before, too. And I know that you also know how hard the depression can be. But please hold on. Please.
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2003, at 13:20:32
In reply to Re: Still alive » Racer, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 11:06:13
the lack of sex started way before he was laid off. My husband stopped touching me almost as soon as we moved in together.
And the more I think about it, the more I don't want treatment. I just want to stop trying. Where I am, there are no treatment options. I've called literally every therapist listed in the yellow pages, asking if they'll take me without insurance. The only one who takes self pay was $280 per session! The only psychiatrist who will see self pay doesn't return calls, takes weeks to respond to calls for prescription refills, etc. The alternative is the county system. The day I was in the EPS unit, a guy came in right after me, asking for a refill of his prescription. He was there 6 HOURS, locked up where I was.
Why did they let me go? I told them that being locked up seemed like it would make it worse, told them what happened last time, and after a few minutes of "oh, it's not like that" they admitted it was. All they could do was lock me up, take away my shoes, and leave me there. Oh, yeah, and send me a huge bill at the end of it. That's why they let me go.
This morning, my husband told me I had to stop doing this, because it was too hard for him to watch. It was making him sick. Maybe if he keeps on that way I'll get over feeling guilty and be able to do it.
Posted by shar on July 4, 2003, at 13:54:58
In reply to Re: that's just it » noa, posted by Racer on July 4, 2003, at 13:20:32
Racer,
Good morning. I did not know what I'd see when I got on this board, but it's you, and I'm very happy about that.We can move this mountain one shovel ful at a time. I agree with those who say you are in serious grieving mode right now, think of all the loss you've experienced.
Sometimes, when I line up all the things in my life and look at them I have a little 'ah ha' experience, yeah, it makes sense I'd feel like crap and be scattered, etc. If you could do the same it might help a little bitty bit.
Now, as far as wanting to continue on, well, of course, nobody would if that's what they had to look forward to for the rest of their lives. The little catch is, it won't be for the rest of your life; it'll just be until you start divesting yourself of some of the crap you're enduring, and get a little further along in your grieving. Are you weeping and weeping over this lost lover? I hope so! It obviously meant so much to you, and I know that after my last divorce I just shut out the part of myself that was hopeful of being loved or cared for or touched gently or spoken to softly and sweetly. So...weep away, I hope you will.
Weeping followed by a big fit are my two suggestions at this juncture. You will benefit by getting that stuff OUT of you. All that stuff you are quietly, carefully, stoically keeping INSIDE of you--it needs to GET OUT of you however it can. You can tell I'm not terribly creative, but my mundane suggestions might help.
One shovel full at a time, it moves mountains, and we will celebrate each and every little success and grain of sand that you move. We like you, we really, really do (just like Sally Field at the Oscars).
1. Weep and weep
2. Throw a fit
3. Keep us informed on what's going on with you.Now, what therapist could do better than that?!
xoxo
Shar
This is the end of the thread.
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