Posted by jojo on November 21, 2000, at 21:17:14
In reply to I don't believe in free will, but...., posted by pullmarine on November 21, 2000, at 20:00:37
>R. W. Emmerson said (approximate quote): in life
you can choose between seeking truth and repose.
Choose what you will, you can never have both.Note from jojo: Maybe he meant that you can seek
or not. You might just "repose" (sleep), but you
can't both seek and not seek.>
> I disagree with this statement. My personal
experience and observations both indicate that
people are born into those categories, and do not
choose them. I think this is true of many things.
>
> Yet, despite this belief in determinism, I live
my life as though everyone, including myself, has
free will. I hold myself and other accountable. I
expect people to have a certain level of self
control, and demand that of myself. I think the
biggest step forward for me was when my cousin
(a shrink at NIMH) said my recovery depended
largely on myself.
>
> Nonetheless, I do seem to have severe crises
every four years (it's like clockwork), so I'm
expecting one in 3 years and six months (while
hoping it won't come this time).
>
> With age these existential and spiritual crises
seem to get more severe, but I must admit that
with each one that I survive, I grow stronger,
wiser, and I come out different (which I believe
is a natural reaction to any painful event).
>
> Ultimatly, I know that one of these crises will
most probably kill me. Such is life. If what I go
through is indeed an illness (which i refute), why
so much fuss about the resulting mortality? If it
is indeed an illness, why not accept the resulting
mortality with the same attitude one has for death
resulting from any other illness (cancer, or AIDS,
or influenza)? I would find it inacceptable to
force treatment on a cancer or aids patient, and
the day I choose that my time has come, I pray to
god that no one will interfere with the natural
course of events.
>
> john
Hi john,You said "If what I go through is indeed an
illness (which i refute), why so much fuss about
the resulting mortality? If it is indeed an
illness, why not accept the resulting
mortality with the same attitude one has for death
resulting from any other illness
(cancer, or AIDS, or influenza)? I would find it
inacceptable to force treatment on a cancer or
aids patient, and the day I choose that my time
has come, I pray to god that no one will interfere with the natural course
of events."You seem pretty intent on dying of this
non-illness (and who is making "a fuss"?)
If it's not an illness, how do you
explain it. If it is an illness, and you expect
it to reappear, someone else might try to prevent
it with psychotropic drugs. Of course, that's
your choice. I do not agree that anyone should
force treatment, certainly not for what you see
as an untreatable condition. But you also said:"I must admit that with each one that I survive,
I grow stronger, wiser..."If you do, indeed, become stronger, that fatal
crisis is going to have to be a hell of a lot
stronger than the previous ones.You also said: "My personal
experience and observations both indicate that
people are born into those categories, and do not
choose them."If you live your life as though you had free will,
you might be able to "choose" to change it.
I believe that whether you are ABLE to change
it or not will depend on conditions (internal and
external) that exist at the time you make your move,
but no one ever said that effort is always useless.Someone said "you can probably choose what you do,
but you can't choose what you choose". So maybe
you can choose some other ending.
poster:jojo
thread:2826
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20001117/msgs/3118.html