Posted by jojo on November 21, 2000, at 19:19:31
In reply to Re: Free Will,Responsibility, Especially in Depression, posted by coral on November 21, 2000, at 8:53:15
> Dear Jojo,
>
> If free will isn't an essential element to our
natures, how could we act that way? Guilt is a
very tricky emotion. For me, legitimate guilt
happens when I choose to do something that isn't
in the best interest of others and myself. How
can I do that? Morally weak? Maybe... I smoke,
and it's harmful habit. My addiction is stronger
than my willingness to tackle it at this moment.
But, I have quit before and will continue to quit,
as long as it takes. If I believed in determinism
I'd simply accept the smoking as determined until
such point that it wasn't. BTW, who's doing all
this determinism??
>
> Coral
Thanks for your response, CoralI'm not saying anything Earth-shattering here.
Many others have said it before, including Freud,
although I don't know if that's an endorsement or
a liability here. I'm only saying that everything
that happens occurs according to the conditions
immediately preceding its happening. Your being
ready to "make the effort" to quite smoking is
part of those conditions. If the "conditions" were
not such that your effort would be successful,
then you wouldn't be able to succeed. No one
determines it, just as no one determines the angle
that a billiard ball will move when hit by the cue
ball. The player hits the cue as best he can, but
the ball has no "choice" about which way to move.
I think the main difference between other higher
mammals and humans is that we have to tell
ourselves a story of why this is happening. In
the PET scanning experiments, the area of the
brain which will move the finger is
already activated BEFORE the person "decides" to
move his finger. To me, this indicates that the
"decision" has already been made BEFORE "WE" MAKE
THE DECISION (that is, the finger is going to move,
but that little person that we imagine lives
inside our heads, must have an explanation for it,
so he thinks, "I'm going to move my finger now."
There is no shame in not having "free will". We
do the best that we can, but how hard we try, and
whether we will be successful, depends on existing
conditions. This is no "excuse", whatever that
means, for not trying. Trying, and its ability to
succeed, are part of the way it works."For me, legitimate guilt happens when I choose to
do something that isn't in the best interest of
others and myself. How can I do that? Morally
weak? Maybe..."I don't believe that it is "moral weakness", or
"lack of character". I do believe that in every
case, you did the best that you could. But if you
COULD have "chosen, using your "free will", how
else do you explain your actions, or lack of them?
poster:jojo
thread:2826
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20001117/msgs/3092.html