Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2005, at 19:59:29
In reply to Re: the Ministry of Civility, posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2005, at 13:47:01
> i dunno if you guys are still reading but...
>
> 10 - i appreciate that people sign up so as to help out with aid. help out US citizens in a state of emergency etc.
>
> but... the US military didn't do anything to help out US citizens in a state of emergency for quite some time for the simple fact that most of them were fighting a war on foreign soil.Well, that's not quite correct. The military didn't do anything to help for quite some time because of bureaucratic snafus and the dinner plans of the head of FEMA, not to mention interbureau squabbling over whether having to actually oversee the disaster operations was meet and fitting for the head of an agency. (Do a google search on Marty Bahamonde's testimony before Congress, complete with emails). Plus the total and utter lack of communications and coordination at the site of the disaster, which led to wild and false stories being spread by people in authority who probably believed what they were saying because communications were so d*mn bad. Cell towers not functioning, telephone not functioning. Not anyone's fault, but it led to chaos. And I'm not sure how well some of our local officials did either. I guess we'll find out in time.
>
> Now... Thats not the fault of the US military. Thats a decision that lies with the person who sent the order... That person isn't even in the US military themself, I bet. But the point is the order is made and then thats the way it goes.
>
> And the welfare of the citizens needing US aid is put on the back burner...Again, not quite the case. The fact is that the entire thing was bungled, but not because the military was in Iraq. The stories I've heard...
>
> Because war is the priority.
>
> And the military have to do what they are ordered to do...
>
> And, I'm sure thats just as frustrating for the people within the service as it is for the people outside the service...
>
> But there it is.
>
> Some guy calls the orders and people risk their lives. Despite what they want to do (ie stay in America and help out from there). And thats to say nothing of the point that when 'terrorists' attack on 9/11 what do they do but send the majority of the military off US soil (smart move incase it happens again...) to go pick on somebody overseas...
>
> Dinah - You know the military weren't so nice to some people after the tragedy right? I read stories about shoot to kill orders etc.Again, there are lots of stories out there. Most have proven to be false. There is a report of shots being fired that seems to be true, but it wasn't shoot to kill, and it wasn't the military. The city mayor says that the officer shot in the air above a crowd of desparate people who were about to riot. I don't know the truth of that either. There are other theories of what the shots meant. And several local law enforcement officials were a bit John Wayne-ish about the looters. I'm not sure if there was any follow through on that or if it was all talk. But it wasn't the military, and shots weren't being fired right and left or anything.
>
> Why were the mortality rates so high in the better off neighborhoods? Why couldn't those people get out?The mortality rates were high among the elderly who didn't perhaps have the means to leave (as in the ability to drive a car long distances), or the ability to chop through to their attics or to swim to safety. Or who thought they were safe because they'd always been safe before. The evacuations had always been false alarms before.
And one of the big reasons is... The storm didn't cause the damage in most of the city. Only in New Orleans East, St. Bernard, lower Plaquemines. People thought we were ok, that we had ridden out the storm. People were out walking the streets after the storm. Then the levees broke. And yes, the Army Corps of Engineers were in charge of designing the levees, and yes they knew about the layer of peat directly below the end of the sheet metal pilings. I don't know whose fault it was, but I'll tell you one thing I learned just today. The pilings on one side of one of the canals, the side on Orleans parish, were 18 feet deep. That's the side that gave out. The layer of peaty soil from the swamp underlying the built up subdivisions was filled with water from the storm surge and the levee walls slid like the top layers of a layer cake on top of slippery frosting. They slid and the city levelled out with the lake. The very nice homes immediately adjacent to the levee were inundated, and the not at all poor people who lived there, if they stayed there, were in the same shape as anyone else. Money doesn't buy you protection from an incoming lake.
But the thing is, the same d*mn canal, the same Corps of Engineers, but a different parish, and a different contractor, the other side of the canal had pilings driven thirty feet deep and didn't flood. Now you tell me.And it wasn't income either. The side that flooded was Lakeview, possibly the second highest residential tax base in the city. And the highest tax base you ask? Well that's built where the original settlers of New Orleans built, and they apparently had the sense to build on slightly higher ground along what is now St. Charles Avenue.
It wasn't demographics. It wasn't racism. It was something to do with those d*mn flood walls along the canal. I won't hazard a guess as to what until the investigation is complete, though there are a couple of theories that come to mind. None of which has to do with demographics per se.
>
> I only get what I can see on the news...
> And some stuff I've read off the internet...
>
> But my understanding was that the poorest areas were the hardest hit
> And the slowest to get aid
>
> Was that wrong?For the best information on the disaster go to the local sources
www.wwl.com
or
www.nola.com
or
www.wwltv.com
By the way, I personally know people who were in the Superdome, people who were at the Convention Center, and people who drowned. White middle to upper class people. People like me in every way. Except that they didn't evacuate. They thought they were on high enough ground. Their houses didn't ordinarily flood. Their houses wouldn't have flooded were it not for the failure of levees that were either poorly designed or poorly built.
This disaster didn't know social class, Alexandra. People all over New Orleans and the surrounding areas are suffering. And the National Guard did a d*mn bit better helping than did the civilians who were supposed to be helping.
The only difference is that people with resources can cope better *after* the disaster. They can go to hotels, they have job skills to relocate, they aren't going to stay long term in shelters because they have finances to do something else. (Although my brother stayed over a month in a shelter.) They can hire contractors even before their insurance money comes in. They probably have better insurance. But that's not the government. That's just reality.
I'm all for putting FEMA under military jurisdiction. They know how to get things done efficiently and quickly under horrific conditions. The people in charge didn't.
Alexandra, I'm *here*. I've been listening to stories from people who are *here*. I'm telling you it's been h*ll for people from all economic strata.
poster:Dinah
thread:574039
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20050924/msgs/574678.html