Posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2005, at 20:35:52
In reply to Re: the Ministry of Civility » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2005, at 19:59:29
> Well, that's not quite correct. The military didn't do anything to help for quite some time because...
Because they weren't given orders to...
> > Now... Thats not the fault of the US military.
I know that.
> > And the welfare of the citizens needing US aid is put on the back burner...
> Again, not quite the case. The fact is that the entire thing was bungled, but not because the military was in Iraq. The stories I've heard...
You don't think the war was a factor?
A lot of military people being otherwise occupied?
And the expense involved with that...Yeah... It is hard to know about the stories. Really very hard to know. And I appreciate that there are a lot of people who think that points can be made on the basis of what happened (points about the current administration, or points about poverty, or points about racism or whatever), and I know that sometimes the truth in comprimised in order to make a point or two...
> The mortality rates were high among the elderly who didn't perhaps have the means to leave (as in the ability to drive a car long distances), or the ability to chop through to their attics or to swim to safety. Or who thought they were safe because they'd always been safe before. The evacuations had always been false alarms before.
Okay. So from the wealthier neighborhoods... It was the elderly and infirm who tended to be hit the hardest? Or those who chose not to evacuate. I'm just wondering whether in the poorer neighborhoods... It might have been more than the elderly and infirm, and less who *chose* not to evacuate seeing as they didn't really have another option...
Yeah. I heard the pilings gave out. That thats why it flooded. And that that had something to do with... spending money on the war instead of infra-structure. Budget cuts for infra-structure which impacts on most people vs war...I know the flood just flooded. It didn't choose to flood the poorer people worse or anything like that. It is just a matter of how fast aid was sent... What aid was sent... And whether that aid would have been sent faster... If the people in the dome had been on average a whole heap wealthier than they were...
> By the way, I personally know people who were in the Superdome, people who were at the Convention Center, and people who drowned. White middle to upper class people. People like me in every way. Except that they didn't evacuate.
Yeah. But on average... On average...
> People all over New Orleans and the surrounding areas are suffering.I know that Dinah. And I most certainly do not mean to undermine that. Really. It is a tragedy all round.
> And the National Guard did a d*mn bit better helping than did the civilians who were supposed to be helping.
I would hope so! They are trained to do that after all and they should have the means to get lots of supplies etc in there.
> The only difference is that people with resources can cope better *after* the disaster. They can go to hotels, they have job skills to relocate, they aren't going to stay long term in shelters because they have finances to do something else. (Although my brother stayed over a month in a shelter.) They can hire contractors even before their insurance money comes in. They probably have better insurance. But that's not the government. That's just reality.
Yeah.
Though we could of course talk about how the greatest predictor of level of education, of level of income etc is what your parents were up to... We could talk about how that is perpeptuated by an individualist world view that treats everyone as being equally placed in the world with equal opportunity and yet how the society does very little to work towards this actually being the case...
> Alexandra, I'm *here*. I've been listening to stories from people who are *here*. I'm telling you it's been h*ll for people from all economic strata.I know.
I don't mean to undermine that.
Really.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:574039
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20050924/msgs/574686.html