Posted by Nickengland on October 19, 2005, at 11:44:48
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by verne on October 19, 2005, at 4:43:19
Hello again Verne :-)
>Bear with me as I explore this.
I think, or at least remember from the deleted posts you had some interest into where Scambuster aquired some of his reading material, or something along those lines..I think I would be right in saying you found his knowledge and what he had to say very interesting - as did I, as I said to Scambuster in my posts to him/her..
'so' Posted this a few months back..
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050716/msgs/529558.html
Its a magazine by the church of Scientology, to which also (I havent got the links to post but can if would like me too) 'so' a while ago that he felt put down because a statement another poster made about him/her saying that Scientologists were creepy. 'So' as I remember said "don't call me creepy" basically he was defending his beliefs and faiths which is admirable to do.
When reading through that link I found that 'so' writings were of a similar nature towards psychiatry in general as the magazine was...
Thought i'd give you some more information I read up on too about the subject, I thought you might find the information useful to read up on....I certainly did...
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Scientology and Psychiatry
Scientology is publicly, and often vehemently, opposed to psychiatry and psychology. According to the Church, this is focused on psychiatry's practices.
This theme also appears in some of Hubbard's literary works. In Hubbard's Mission Earth series, various characters praise and criticize these methods; and the antagonists in his novel Battlefield Earth are called Psychlos, a similar allusion.
L. Ron Hubbard was bitterly critical of psychiatry's citation of physical causes for mental disorders, for instance chemical imbalances in the brain. Although there are many questions remaining, the statements by Hubbard deny that psychiatry through the scientific method has shown some psychiatric disorders are related to anatomical and chemical cerebral anomalies. Furthermore, it is evident much of his criticism is based upon old and flawed information regarding psychiatry [16]. He regarded psychiatrists as denying human spirituality and peddling fake cures. He was also convinced psychiatrists were themselves deeply unethical individuals, committing "extortion, mayhem and murder. Our files are full of evidence on them." [17] The Church of Scientology claims that psychiatry was responsible for World War I [18], the rise of Hitler and Stalin [19], the decline in education standards in the United States [20], the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo [21], and even the September 11th attacks [22]. However, for all these statements, Hubbard has failed to present any evidence supporting his view of psychiatry.
Scientology's opposition to psychiatry has also undoubtedly been influenced by the fact that a number of psychiatrists have strongly spoken out against the Church of Scientology, resulting in pressure from the media and governments. Additionally, after Hubbard's book on Dianetics was published, in which he tried to present a new form of psychotherapy, the American Psychological Association advised its members against using Hubbard's techniques with their patients until its effectiveness could be proven. Because of this critique Hubbard came to believe psychiatrists were behind a worldwide conspiracy to attack Scientology and create a "world government" run by psychiatrists on behalf of Soviet Russia.
Our enemies are less than twelve men. They are members of the Bank of England and other higher financial circles. They own and control newspaper chains and they, oddly enough, run all the mental health groups in the world that had sprung up ...
Their apparent programme was to use mental health, which is to say psychiatric electric shock and pre-frontal lobotomy, to remove from their path any political dissenters ... These fellows have gotten nearly every government in the world to owe them considerable quantities of money through various chicaneries and they control, of course, income tax, government finance — (Harold) Wilson, for instance, the current Premier of England, is totally involved with these fellows and talks about nothing else actually. (Hubbard, Ron's Journal 67 [23])
In 1966, Hubbard declared war on psychiatry, telling Scientologists "We want at least one bad mark on every psychiatrist in England, a murder, an assault, or a rape or more than one." He committed the Church of Scientology to eradicating psychiatry in 1969, announcing "Our war has been forced to become 'To take over absolutely the field of mental healing on this planet in all forms.'" [24] Not coincidentally, the Church of Scientology founded the Citizens Commission on Human Rights that same year as its primary vehicle for attacking psychiatry.Around the same time, Hubbard decided psychiatrists were an ancient evil that had been a problem for billions of years. He cast them in the role of assisting Xenu's genocide of 75 million years ago. In a 1982 bulletin entitled "Pain and Sex", Hubbard declares that "pain and sex were the INVENTED TOOLS of degradation", having been devised eons ago by psychiatrists "who have been on the [time] track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe." (Hubbard, HCO Bulletin of 26 August 1982)
Celebrity Scientologists, notably Tom Cruise, have been extremely vocal in attacking the use of psychiatric medication. Their position has attracted considerable criticism from psychiatrists, physicians, and mentally ill individuals who cite numerous scientific studies showing benefit from psychiatry. Nevertheless, Scientology continues to stand behind their collective disgust with the actions of Psychiatry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Scientology_and_psychiatry
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Hubbard also decided that psychiatrists were an ancient evil that had been a problem for billions of years. He cast them in the role of assisting Xenu's genocide of 75 million years ago. In a 1982 bulletin entitled "Pain and Sex", Hubbard declares that "pain and sex were the INVENTED TOOLS of degradation", having been devised eons ago by psychiatrists "who have been on the [time] track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe." (Hubbard, HCO Bulletin of 26 August 1982)
The Church of Scientology rejects the claim that what are commonly called "mental diseases" can have exclusively a biological basis and holds that such conditions have exclusively mental/spiritual causes, which can be corrected by Scientology counseling. On the other hand, the Church of Scientology has policies which forbid the counseling of mentally ill people or those who have received psychiatric treatment. The organization has been known to refuse assistance for persons suffering from notable mental disorders; for some, it has developed special procedures for "handling" these problems, such as the Introspection Rundown.
Scientology criticizes that the goal of psychology and psychiatry must not be to reduce crime, insanity, or war, because otherwise, with all of the billions of dollars funding them, some improvement would have been seen in the 20th century. This of course relies on assumptions that may not be shared by non-Scientologists; sufferers from mania, for instance, would generally consider the discovery of medications in the 20th century that limit their episodes of ill-judged and frequently self-harmful behavior to be "improvement"; a Scientologist, however, considering all psychiatric drugs to be harmful, would assert that the mania sufferer has in fact simply become a drug abuser and that his perception that his quality of life is improved is illusory
Counterpositions
All counterpositions have in common that they see Scientology's description of psychiatry and psychology as distorted, out of date or inaccurate, if not outright wrong.Critics of Scientology have pointed out that Hubbard asked in 1947 for psychiatric care, and that the coroner found after his death that Hubbard had been injected with the psychiatric tranquilizer Vistaril.
Mental health care professionals are not very worried that the public will take the publications by CCHR seriously. They do, however, contend that when these materials are quoted secondhand, without attribution to the Church of Scientology, they have a more harmful impact.
Also without signing any waivers, Scientologists believe firmly in Hubbard's claims about psychiatrists. Scientologist Lisa McPherson left a psychiatric hospital because of her beliefs in Scientology, and later died in the care of Scientologists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry
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Sorry for all the cut and pasting, but hopefully, even if its not relavant, it does make for some very fasinating reading!
I guess it depends on which belief structure one has, even right down to medical treatment because of a relgion, be that of the case in scientology, then from what I understand in suicide, they believe more or less that there should not be any medical intervention, where as, the belief stucture, not in religion, but in the medical profession, believes there should be intervention, as is proved it can and does save lifes, as i'm sure to those of Scientologists, they're treatment has saved them.
Whatever works right and what you believe in right, according to your own beliefs at the end of the day.
Hope the information is helpful...
Kind regards
Nick
poster:Nickengland
thread:566979
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20051013/msgs/568831.html