Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 9:30:37
Long story short:
Last job : Software Engineer
Basically "forced" out due to my severe depression - I wasn't able to "get better" by their imposed sick leave deadline, so, out of a job and on disability now. Currently undergoing ECT for the 2nd time (2nd round, different hospital, different doctor)...Main subject here - losing friends due to your illness or loss of job (out of sight, out of mind - pathetic, especially for grown adults, but very true, so I've found out, time and time again...).
I had *many* friends at my last job, or so I had thought them to be. I was in a very social group, one that went to lunch together every day, would have a few drinks either at lunch or after work, etc.
Well, after I left, almost all communication FROM these "friends" stopped. I was doing all the work to try and keep in touch with them and try to get together. After a while, I became VERY sick of having to "try" so hard to remain friends with these people, that I eventually game up.
I asked why they never kept in touch, and was given standard "bozo" responses like "I've been busy", or other unrealistic garbage, or given NO reason at all. Usually I'd get apologies from them for (them) not keeping in touch. e.g. NO ONE is too busy to send a 3 line email to one of their friends, or text message, or phone call.
The tip of the iceberg was when my father died of cancer. I told one person there to spread the word for me, which he eventually did. Guess how many emails I got offering condolences and such? One. Yes, one. Out of around 10-15+ people I've known for 3+ years. Only one could take the time to email me.
About a month ago, longer for some, I totally broke off all communication as a test. Well, they failed, just like I predicted. Not one email, text message, voice-mail, etc. Nothing. It's like I no longer exist to them simple because they aren't "forced", by employment, to physically "see" me every day.
When we did hang out, I was the one who was THERE for them, helping them with their divorces, driving them home when they had too much to drink, letting them crash at my house, etc. I was also the life of the party, and was told that several times. I was the one that brought all the "girls" to our table, made friends the people that worked there, etc, etc. I gave them NO reasons not to WANT me to be with them. NONE. I was VERY careful about analyzing and scrutinizing this.
I never complained about my depression, or even brought it up. I was very careful to *always* let everyone talk (I can be hypo-manic and a motor mouth), I always went wherever "they" wanted to go, and was always "available" - never leaving early, never turning them down to go out (not like they ever invited me, I had to do that myself).
So, I basically HATE these selfish jerks now. I guess I've felt that way for a while, but I've given up trying. I don't believe one friend should do all the work to keep a friendship alive. That's NOT a friendship. So, now I'm pathetically lonely, and even more depressed, but at least I'm not angry all the time at them for constantly letting me down. Perfect example would be how they would make plans with me, then constantly break them, or, I'd be ready for a night out, and they would leave after one beer, basically wasting my time even driving to meet them. Also, there's the "we'll get together next week".. and next week never, ever, came... I heard this promise so many times, I've lost count.
Out of sight out of mind. I can't believe grown adults would suffer from such a moronic adage, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. I changed jobs a lot over the years and "seemed" to have good friends and each job. Guess what happened when either I, and/or one of them left that job? The friendship ended too. It was just too much effort for them to keep in touch which is laughable considering how EASY it is to keep in tough in this day and age (all of us have cell phones, email, IM, etc).
Luckily I'm married, and have children, and there's my wife's family that I see occasionally, but still, this doesn't come close to meeting my social/friendship needs.Also, before anyone goes and thinks it was my fault for some reason or another, know that *everyone* in my wife's family loves me, enjoys my company, and the same used to go for these "friends". I thought long and hard about what I might have done wrong, but there's nothing. My wife backs me up here. My family (wife's family), always expresses their sadness when I can't make it to a gathering (usually because of my depression), etc.
A couple of other people have left the company as well, and guess what? No one keeps in touch with them either.
What's with people? Don't people WANT to have friends? Don't people want to expend *some* effort to keep them? Hell, don't people even care? I don't even get emails asking how I'm doing, and they ALL know about my depression and how bad it is. Also, aren't they even curious??? If I've lost the house - due to losing the income from my job, how my wife and kids are, etc, etc.
I guess I'll never understand most people. I'm ridiculously unselfish and caring. So, I can't relate one bit to these peoples' behavior. Worse yet, I'm the one who is suffering without people to hang around with, talk to, heaven forbid get support from, etc. I'm pretty much trapped at home all the time. I'm usually too depressed to go out anywhere, especially by myself. Drinking alone doesn't work well for depressed people... you just end up feeling worse, wondering why no one will lift a finger to be there for you, and watching others surrounded by friends kills you.
Has anyone else has this experience?
What am I supposed to do to find GOOD friends? Where the hell would I even look?
Posted by adelaide curtis on July 29, 2007, at 13:02:05
In reply to Has this ever happened to you too?, posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 9:30:37
Posted by adelaide curtis on July 29, 2007, at 13:05:50
In reply to Re: Has this ever happened to you too? (nm) » Enigma, posted by adelaide curtis on July 29, 2007, at 13:02:05
i am bitter now..
relationships has caused great pain.
the one i have with myself is the worst.
be thankful for the wife who will always be your best friend :)
some do not have any
Posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 16:37:06
In reply to checked nm by mistake... » adelaide curtis, posted by adelaide curtis on July 29, 2007, at 13:05:50
> i am bitter now..
> relationships has caused great pain.
> the one i have with myself is the worst.
> be thankful for the wife who will always be your best friend :)
> some do not have anyThe relationship you have with yourself is the worst? Can you explain?
I am very thankful for what I DO have, such as my wife and kids and can't even imagine what I'd do without them.. well, actually I can imagine what I'd do without them.. I wouldn't be here anymore, it's as simple as that.
I know there are people who have less than I do, but I have to look at my life from MY current circumstances, and when I do, it's really grim. I don't have a single real friend that I see or talk to on a regular basis and it angers and depresses the hell out of me. If I was a total jerk, I'd be ok with it. The problem is, I'm always an "awesome" friend to these "people" I meet, and still, they crap all over me. This has been going on since high school!
Honestly, I don't care about "all" of those lost "friends". I would be more than happy with just ONE GOOD, "REAL" friend who would stick around. That's it & no more BS! I'm 38. Way too old for the teenager behavior my old "friends" (coworkers) used (and continue) to pull.
Anyway, I'm a guy, and sorry to say it, but I NEED to hang out socially with other guys (or at least ONE other guy), for my own sanity.
So, if any of you need a good friend and live near Manchester, NH, send me a Babble-mail or such. Of course, you'd have to be a good friend to me as well, unlike all the human garbage I've wasted my time on, just to get hurt in the end ;)
Posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2007, at 22:30:28
In reply to Re: checked nm by mistake..., posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 16:37:06
I believe out of sight out of mind applies here. And also the fast paced lives people live. They have their own problems and I've never socialized on the out side with co-workers I was always content to come home to family. I'm not the type that likes friends and when I did have a friend it was always one.Love Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on July 29, 2007, at 22:56:22
In reply to Has this ever happened to you too?, posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 9:30:37
That is an excellent question, and if I'd found the answer I wouldn't be here, I guess.
>Anyway, I'm a guy, and sorry to say it, but I NEED to hang out socially with other guys (or at least ONE other guy), for my own sanity.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Relations between men could do with improvement (they could exist, for a start).
Hell, relations all round could do with improvement.Friendship is the one are in which Jesus was surely right when he said 'to each who has shall more be given, but to him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away'.
Manchester? Nowhere near me.
I'm amazed you can work.
Posted by Enigma on July 30, 2007, at 11:02:59
In reply to Where are you supposed to find good friends? » Enigma, posted by Sigismund on July 29, 2007, at 22:56:22
> That is an excellent question, and if I'd found the answer I wouldn't be here, I guess.
>
> >Anyway, I'm a guy, and sorry to say it, but I NEED to hang out socially with other guys (or at least ONE other guy), for my own sanity.
>
> Yeah, I know what you mean. Relations between men could do with improvement (they could exist, for a start).
> Hell, relations all round could do with improvement.
>
> Friendship is the one are in which Jesus was surely right when he said 'to each who has shall more be given, but to him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away'.
>
> Manchester? Nowhere near me.
> I'm amazed you can work.Actually, I'm no longer with that company and unemployed, but more importantly, disabled (collecting disability) now. I forget how long I've been out of that company now. Maybe 1 to 1 1/2 years now.. I think.
I hear you on the relationships/friendships with men. Unfortunately, all I've met are selfish jerks (I sound like a woman who is dating, don't I?). I could go on and on with the horror stories. The women friends I've had at work were no better, but they acted like they were.
In my life, I've found the following to be true, and it's happened to me more times than I can count, over the past 20 years.
Any single male friend I've had only seems to want to be with you, hang out with you, etc, just up until they meet a woman, then you and every other male friend they have/had are discarded like rotten eggs.
I had friends for years in the past, and they have been unable or simply unwilling to continue their friendships while they were dating/going out with/married to a woman. It's so "high school" it sickens me. As I got older, none of these men changed their ways and/or matured ONE single bit.
Many of the married men were/are pathetic. They would constantly lie to their wives just to spend some time out with the guys, then wonder why their wives didn't "trust" them. Of course, 1/2 would still hit on any girl who showed any interest in them, when they were out with the guys. What's worse, every guys' night out was ruined when any of the guys met a woman that night. They would leave us, and spend the rest of the night with the woman they just met, acting as if the rest of the guys they came there with, weren't even there!!
I'm talking about men in their 30's to 40's, but it sounds like I'm talking about high school kids.
Just for laughs, I should make up some fake names for these guys and give you their personality profiles and the pathetic way each behaved as a friend, as a husband, etc.Why did I even hang around with them? Well, it's simple, beggars can't be choosers!! I tried to make the best of it, until finally, like I said, I had enough. I was killing myself just to remain friends, while they were doing everything in their power to make that impossible, pretty much, unaware and ignorant of their actions and the repercussions of those actions.
It's funny.. I wonder if there are personal pages you can put an ad in to try to find good friends. I'm sure there aren't, as anyone reading them would assume anyone using such a service must be a complete loser.
Men can't really meet other men without one man thinking the other is coming on to them. It's pretty sad. I find trying to find a friend exactly like dating, without the interest in sex of course. If you push too hard or move too fast, you scare the other guy away. If you don't push at all, they think you aren't interested in them.It's so sad that you have to play this complex social game in order to "meet" a guy that your goal is to become friends with.
I tried to find a depression group to go to in my area, but I can't find one, not one close to me anyway. I'm not joining any clubs and such to meet people either, as the odds of gaining a friend there is a shot in the dark at best and I really don't want to waste my time and/or money.
The only people in my IM friends list, all 2 of them, I met in multiplayer video games and are half my age, and live 1/2 way across the world! Sadly, I've talked to these people more in the last few months then I've talked to all of my old coworker/friends combined.
I love the expression, "with friends like these, who needs enemies?"
It's been true so many times in my life, it's, well, very depressing.Oh well, back to my video games...
Posted by adelaide curtis on July 30, 2007, at 12:47:43
In reply to Re: checked nm by mistake..., posted by Enigma on July 29, 2007, at 16:37:06
..when depressed i hate everything about my self...i cant stand to look in the mirror..cant leave the house..cant get out of bed..
i do horrible things to myself ..
i crawl out from under the rock from time to time and wonder where everyone has gone?
oh yah...i killed them off
Posted by Sigismund on July 30, 2007, at 14:29:07
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends?, posted by Enigma on July 30, 2007, at 11:02:59
Video games seem so difficult, though my son loved them. Recently he was away and I was trying to master the remote to the TV and the video.
I've kinda mastered the one for the TV, ignoring some of the more obscure buttons.
But I realised that I simply could not work scene selection on the one for the video. This filled me with equal parts of pride and despair.
Eventually a young person who lives here (not a friend) put me on the right track.It seems you want to find a close bloke friend? I've thought of going to a depression support group too, but never have.
When I think though of the friendships that gave me most pleasure, they were those lucky ones where I wanted (for whatever reasons) least out of them, and I wonder if that is why I got most. (Some people of course you just can't stand or are hard work.)
People cannot fulfill your needs (needs? what is this? anyway...) and the whole thing is more trouble than it is worth, and then, once in a blue moon, it just works right.
Life's enough to send you sideways though.
Posted by ConfuzyQ on July 30, 2007, at 15:24:43
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends?, posted by Enigma on July 30, 2007, at 11:02:59
Hi Enigma, I'm so sorry you're suffering this way.
> It's funny.. I wonder if there are personal pages you can put an ad in to try to find good friends. I'm sure there aren't, as anyone reading them would assume anyone using such a service must be a complete loser.
There are actually, in some bigger or more 'progressive' cities anyway. If you have a local 'alternative' type newspaper, might check it out. I really don't know how this goes between men seeking strictly friendship, but women seem to enjoy it. And I think most people are straightforward about what they'd like in a friend and what they're like themselves, more so than when this kind of thing is done for dating purposes.
And in this day and age no one thinks anyone is a loser for doing it. It's a self-selecting population -- they wouldn't be there themselves if they thought anyone who would do it was a loser.
> I'm not joining any clubs and such to meet people either, as the odds of gaining a friend there is a shot in the dark at best and I really don't want to waste my time and/or money.
>I don't agree at all that it's a long shot, and how could it be a waste of your time considering how things are otherwise going for you now. This is practically the only way people *do* make new friends once they are out of school, and if their work setup isn't such that they meet friends there, or ones that work out anyway. Aside from if you're lucky enough to hit it off with your neighbors, how many other methods are there.
Any kind of sport, hobby or interest, coaching or assisting with something like that, helping organize fundraising events, whatever, that you can think of is a fabulous way to make friends (and there are not necessarily high or any costs involved). Especially since you immediately have something in common, something to talk about, and also a reason to see each other at regular intervals with no one seeming to pursue anyone.
I think you should join any club or interest group you have even a remote interest in, and never again hurt yourself by being the only party to work at a relationship. I think things will go much much better in this way once you have made some changes to lessen the hurt you carry from past experiences.
I know this probably didn't help. But I do hope you feel better and try something new soon. If you aren't willing to, then at least you can feel in control of what happens to you, because then you would be actively choosing not to improve things for yourself.
Best,
CQ
Posted by Sigismund on July 30, 2007, at 16:21:27
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends? » Enigma, posted by ConfuzyQ on July 30, 2007, at 15:24:43
You're right.
The place I've met most people recently is the radio station, and all I do there is give them 3 afternoons a week.
(It helps that I believe in independent media.)
Posted by ConfuzyQ on July 30, 2007, at 16:48:09
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends? » ConfuzyQ, posted by Sigismund on July 30, 2007, at 16:21:27
Posted by Enigma on July 31, 2007, at 19:23:00
In reply to Re: checked nm by mistake..., posted by adelaide curtis on July 30, 2007, at 12:47:43
> ..when depressed i hate everything about my self...i cant stand to look in the mirror..cant leave the house..cant get out of bed..
> i do horrible things to myself ..
> i crawl out from under the rock from time to time and wonder where everyone has gone?
> oh yah...i killed them offI don't know the exact name of the style of writing you are using, but I get the impression 1/2 of is true to the letter, and the other 1/2 is analogy.
I don't hate myself when I'm depressed. I hate my depression. I treat it like the disease that it is. What I'm like when I'm depressed is NOT me. It's not who I am. I wasn't always like this. There was a ME BEFORE the depression, and "he" appears here and there when the depression isn't as bad. If I were you, I would attempt to look at yourself the same way.
What are the horrible things you do to yourself? Again, don't attack yourself when your real target is the disease. Try to think of it that way if you can.
When you say you killed them off.. Do you mean that you drove them away? I used to be more bipolar than I am now (now the depression has replaced it), so I drove some people away with my mania. They just couldn't take my hyper personality. In addition to this, my inflated anger destroyed some friendships as well, but I don't miss those people. They were garbage friends, and after I'd had enough of their crap, I let them know what kind of people they were and ended things (usually badly). Sad that this has happened so many times in my life.
How do you treat your depression? If it makes you feel any better, I'm highly treatment resistant, and have tried and failed with 20-30 different drugs. I went through many doctors as well, as some literally said they don't know how to help me! I'm currently on no AD's, as I can't find one that works, and am on my 2nd round of ECT treatments. The jury is still out on the ECT.
I hope you can find some peace.
Posted by Enigma on July 31, 2007, at 19:42:47
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends? » Enigma, posted by ConfuzyQ on July 30, 2007, at 15:24:43
One of the worst "traits", or "curses" I have, that I've had ever since I was a child, is that I have a vivid, perfect memory of all those times when people hurt me, all the way down to grade-school. I remember negative events like they happened yesterday.
Of course, I also have the inability to remember good times and positive events. I can only remember those going back a very short period of time, and the negative events always dominate the thoughts in my mind.
I grew up with very negative parents who dwelled on the 1/2 empty side of life ritualisticly. I did better when I was finally able to move away from home, but the negativity in my mind still dominates my thoughts.
So, every past failure (with friendships, etc) pushes me further and further away from people, and repeat experiences. I just assume the same bad things will happen again, and I can't deal with getting hurt over and over again.
The depression keeps me indoors a lot, and away from some of those social events you mentioned. Also, I don't have enough positive energy in me to be a coach, assist at fundraisers, volunteer, and things like that. It's just not my style. Being hurt so much has made me severely cynical and jaded. Even when people are nice here, I wonder what their "angle" is. Sad, even though I do believe some people are genuinely kind...Kinda funny story... An old coworker I haven't talked to in a year I guess, I thought I'd email and say hello. Turns out he not only met a girl, but got married and now has a baby girl! This is a guy that couldn't meet a girl to save his life too... and guess what? He met her through eharmony. Kinda ironic considering we're on the same subject matter...
Anyway, thanks for the kind words and suggestions.
Posted by Enigma on July 31, 2007, at 19:52:02
In reply to Re: Where are you supposed to find good friends? » Enigma, posted by Sigismund on July 30, 2007, at 14:29:07
> Video games seem so difficult, though my son loved them. Recently he was away and I was trying to master the remote to the TV and the video.
> I've kinda mastered the one for the TV, ignoring some of the more obscure buttons.
> But I realised that I simply could not work scene selection on the one for the video. This filled me with equal parts of pride and despair.
> Eventually a young person who lives here (not a friend) put me on the right track.
>
> It seems you want to find a close bloke friend? I've thought of going to a depression support group too, but never have.
> When I think though of the friendships that gave me most pleasure, they were those lucky ones where I wanted (for whatever reasons) least out of them, and I wonder if that is why I got most. (Some people of course you just can't stand or are hard work.)
> People cannot fulfill your needs (needs? what is this? anyway...) and the whole thing is more trouble than it is worth, and then, once in a blue moon, it just works right.
> Life's enough to send you sideways though.Hehe. Luckily, I've always been good with electronics, all-things-mechanical, and so forth. That's why I finally decided to major in computer science. I did enjoy the field (software engineering) for a time, until I just had too many bad experiences with the coworkers, the company, the way they did things, etc. Most SE's have the social skills of moldy bread, so I never quite fit in there, as I'm mentally a techie, but have the personality of a comedian/actor. I usually hate most SE's I meet. :(
If I ever get better, and am able to go back to work, I don't know if I'll even be able go back into software again. I pretty much hate it with a passion now... long story... some of it I already discussed... much of it, I didn't. Bleh, I get the chills just thinking about it. So many bad experiences, the last company being the worst yet.
Posted by adelaide curtis on August 1, 2007, at 11:00:45
In reply to Re: checked nm by mistake..., posted by Enigma on July 31, 2007, at 19:23:00
"I don't know the exact name of the style of writing you are using, but "..
~~i did not think my writting style was in question :(
"I don't hate myself when I'm depressed. I hate my depression. I treat it like the disease that it is. What I'm like when I'm depressed is NOT me. It's not who I am. I wasn't always like this. There was a ME BEFORE the depression, and "he" appears here and there when the depression isn't as bad. If I were you, I would attempt to look at yourself the same way."
~~i know what depression is ...it alters my thinking and i do not like myself.
i was trying to be supportive..but i feel like i am being belittled because i "aint doing depression right" and i cant communicate effectively with my writting style.
This is the end of the thread.
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