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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 19:15:27
I don't understand. :-( I'm so stupid.
Right now I'm reading "Feeling Good" by David D. Burns, M.D. It's a self help book that uses cognitive therapy.
I'm reading the part on the ten different cognitive distortions. I think I understand them when I read them, but there's this quiz and I'm not getting them! I haven't really tried, but I can't even start to try to figure them out!
I can't match the thoughts to the distortions.
For example, the thought, "I'm stupid because I can't complete a quiz in this book" is probably a distortion, but which one is it?
I think I'm mentally retarded. Oh wait, that's a distortion too, what is that?
I'm afraid I don't have the mental capacity to learn cognitive therapy. I'll never succeed.
More distortions! Aaaahhh!
LOL, this is kind of funny. Who knew my thoughts were riddled with so many darn distortions?
Now I shall attempt rational thought. LOL
I've only read about the distortions once, it takes a while to learn new concepts. I will get it with practice. (I hope)
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 19:24:41
In reply to I don't understand!, posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 19:15:27
I selected the right book, but it must have been deselected after I edited my post.
Posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2006, at 22:03:14
In reply to Re: Oops, wrong link, posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 19:24:41
I read that book for many years. It also has Yoga, deep breathing, meds, relaxation techniques. The part youl're talking about. I think you take a negative thought. Challenge it. And then follow through on doing it and write down how you actually felt and how it went. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 22:35:05
In reply to Re: Oops, wrong link » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2006, at 22:03:14
Yuck- that sounds like a lot of homework. And this is supposed to help depressed people? I guess they have to wait for a good day to do their depression homework, because when I needed help so bad, I couldn't even write more than a few words without giving up on myself.
I think the reason why my T doesn't do any CBT with me is because I easily agree to do things, because I want to please people. See T!! I'm the best client EVER!!! Except that when I fail to complete my homework, I would probably be even more depressed than when I started.
T has only once asked me directly to do something. And he was very careful about it, and very specific, and made sure to tell me why and how I needed to do it. That one thing was to meet with the pdoc.
BUT- if it works (and a lot of research shows that it does) CBT sounds like a great method to learn skills that you can use the rest of your life (even when you're feeling well).
-ll
Posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 23:12:21
In reply to CBT is not for me... yet?, posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 22:35:05
I get what you mean about not being about to do the self help thing when one is *really* down.
How are people who can't even get out of bed supposed to read a 681 page book AND do all the exercises it suggests? The task must seem herculean.
I'm optimistic about reading the book. I think it will help, even though I'm not depressed. My pdoc keeps trying to teach me about challenging my thoughts and I think this book would really reinforce that.
Deneb*
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 23:34:07
In reply to I don't understand!, posted by Deneb on September 2, 2006, at 19:15:27
I think there is something to the notion of identifying 'thought distortions'. I don't think it matters so much whether or not you can label what kind of thought distortion it is (the categories are somewhat arbitrary and there can be considerable overlap). I think the usefulness comes from identifying 'thought distortions' and being able to identify alternatives that aren't 'distorted'.
If, for example, you think 'nobody ever says anything nice to me' you can think 'is that really true? then you can search for something nice that someone has said to you at some point. Then you might get to thinking, 'okay, but people don't say very nice things to me very often'. You could then have a think about whether that is true...
I find that a useful process. If you find yourself thinking strong claims like 'always' or ' never' or 'everything' or 'nothing' or 'everyone' or 'nobody' then your claims are probably false because the truth is more likely to lie in between.
I have trouble with labelling them 'thought distortions'. There are many false things that people think (that 'normal' people think) and I'm not convinced that the thinking of depressed people is anymore 'distorted' or 'likely to be false' than the thinking exhibited by non-depressed subjects.
I think the notion is more about identifying *unhelpful* thoughts and learning how to replace them with more *helpful* thoughts.
For example, there was an experiment that showed that people with depression tended to have more realistic self assessments than non depressed individuals (who tended to have an inflated sense of self worth). Lol.
:-)
Posted by MidnightBlue on September 3, 2006, at 0:36:02
In reply to CBT is not for me... yet?, posted by llrrrpp on September 2, 2006, at 22:35:05
I was too depressed for it to work, too. I really needed meds. And even when I was better, just trying to work it made me feel worse about myself.
MB
Posted by finelinebob on September 3, 2006, at 1:10:10
In reply to Re: CBT is not for me... yet? » llrrrpp, posted by MidnightBlue on September 3, 2006, at 0:36:02
Problem with being trained in cognitive psychology and social cognition, altho CBT is more Behaviorism in Sheeps Clothing. A Kinder, Gentler Behaviorism.
Anyway, I know how it works. Which means I get to sabotage any efforts I make. I am highly self-efficacious when it comes to undermining my own self-improvement projects. w00t!!
Even better was when I was doing the psychology schtick, I could use CBT-related stuff in my own work and explain to people why it was good for them. WOOHOOO!!!
Posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2006, at 13:03:15
In reply to Re: CBT is not for me... EVER!, posted by finelinebob on September 3, 2006, at 1:10:10
>
>
> Even better was when I was doing the psychology schtick, I could use CBT-related stuff in my own work and explain to people why it was good for them. WOOHOOO!!!That does create some cognitive dissonance, doesn't it?
gg
Posted by Deneb on September 3, 2006, at 22:19:11
In reply to Re: CBT is not for me... EVER! » finelinebob, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2006, at 13:03:15
I'm reading the chapter on "do-nothingism" and I find it really enlightening!
I have a gigantic problem with procrastination and apathy, even when I'm feeling well. I'm going to do some of the exercises mentioned in the book. I feel really optimistic about this whole thing. I think it will work. I'm really excited about this. :-)
Anyone else have this book? Want to do the exercises with me?
Deneb*
Posted by finelinebob on September 3, 2006, at 23:24:08
In reply to Re: CBT is not for me... EVER! » finelinebob, posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2006, at 13:03:15
> > Even better was when I was doing the psychology schtick, I could use CBT-related stuff in my own work and explain to people why it was good for them. WOOHOOO!!!
>
> That does create some cognitive dissonance, doesn't it?Nah. Just because I know enough to sabotage my efforts at it does not mean that it isn't an efficacious method for other people.
I just don't tell them enough to know how it REALLY works ... just enough to convince them that it can work.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on September 4, 2006, at 8:47:45
In reply to Re: CBT, posted by Deneb on September 3, 2006, at 22:19:11
Hiya!
I have the book and I haven't gotten past the first few pages....although I totally agree with the book in principle, its just doing it on my own takes alot of motivation - hmm, what were you saying about procrastination again????? I find it quite hard to do, for some reason.
Sure, I'd like to be a Burns Buddy. We could kind of try and encourage each other to do the chapters etc...
Whats the difference between "Feeling Good, the New Mood therapy" and "The feeling good handbook?"
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Racer on September 4, 2006, at 9:52:32
In reply to Re: CBT is not for me... EVER!, posted by finelinebob on September 3, 2006, at 1:10:10
>
>
> Anyway, I know how it works. Which means I get to sabotage any efforts I make. I am highly self-efficacious when it comes to undermining my own self-improvement projects. w00t!!
>
> Even better was when I was doing the psychology schtick, I could use CBT-related stuff in my own work and explain to people why it was good for them. WOOHOOO!!!For me it's even easier: everything about the CBT process triggers anorexic behaviors for me. Period. I suspect that some of it is probably necesary for me, at least in the sense of recognizing when my own thoughts are leading me deeper into the morass, and challenging my own beliefs.
I suppose part of the problem comes from my family, who used things like, "You aren't depressed -- you have to be depressed *about* something, so if you can't say why you're depressed, then you aren't." With the implication being that there was something wrong with me -- I was lazy, or bad, or whatever -- for feeling as if I was depressed. I already use some of the principles of CBT -- to punish myself.
I do agree, though, that it's got its place, and that it can be helpful for a large enough number of people. I don't think it's all that helpful for people with disabling depression, though...
OK. You and GG may know about these things. I don't, so I'll shut up now...
Posted by Deneb on September 6, 2006, at 17:51:31
In reply to Re: CBT, posted by Meri-Tuuli on September 4, 2006, at 8:47:45
> Whats the difference between "Feeling Good, the New Mood therapy" and "The feeling good handbook?"
>
> Kind regards
>
> MeriI'm not sure Meri. I'll check it out next time I'm in the bookstore.
Deneb*
Posted by tizza on September 11, 2006, at 8:39:44
In reply to Re: CBT » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Deneb on September 6, 2006, at 17:51:31
CBT can be very confronting, it's not like a normal pdoc session or T session. They cut straight to the chase and dive right in. I'm sure it's not the same everywhere but the 2 times I tried it, it left me feeling like sh*t and confused and bought up a few issues that I thought I was ready to confront but I wasn't. It was rather traumatic for me but it did help me get my sleep under control for a couple of months when I mixed in a bit of hypnotherapy with it. If you are feeling like you are really strong and are ready to face the world then I would say go for it. Paul
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