Posted by kiddo on February 19, 2002, at 14:08:42
In reply to Re: grraaaaarrrh (update, long), posted by m3 on February 19, 2002, at 2:19:04
Hi M3-
I included your post because I want to make sure I respond correctly and hopefully say what I mean without too much trouble. bear with me, ok :-)
> I had my appt. tonight. My T says that she made a mistake; she acknowledges continuing to push a little after I said I felt manipulated but says she did not understand that pushing more would cause so much hurt/anger.
>
This doesn't seem right to me, if she admitted that she made a mistake, why would she continue to do it; furthermore, why doesn't she understand her mistake?If that isn't the case in her not understanding-why doesn't she ask the appropriate questions to help her understand? Why and in what context you feel manipulated, do you feel she's trying to push you away...I'm sure you get the idea...
This IMNSO (in my not so humble) opinion think this is HER issue, not yours...perhaps a classic case of Freud's "Counter-transference" or the fact that she's projecting her feelings in this area onto you...is she angry with you because of the ineffectiveness, etc.?
> I am trying to believe her. I certainly think therapists can make mistakes and it seems within reason that her words last time could just be a mistake. It is still a struggle to try to believe/forgive her; I don't have very much insight into where she's coming from due to the ol' therapist privacy thing.
>
Yes, therapists/psychiatrists make mistakes in therapy all the time...(they don't call it 'practicing' medicine for nothing..hehe)I think THAT right there is the area you should explore and not let it drop-therapy, regardless of how hard you try, will be ineffective if you have difficulty believing/forgiving her.
If you can't get straightforward answers from her because of the "ol'therapist privacy thing", you have to learn 'shrink speak'. Get your questions answered in the same manner therapists do.
***snipped***> This is what happened, confirmed with her tonight:
> 1) I am restless, tired of being depressed, a little frustrated with the ineffectiveness of treatment (>11 mos. with her, 2 yrs on meds).
I understand this part, been there; you seem at a standstill, want to be better, sick of the entire scene and want to get on with your life...at least that's how it is for me
> 2) Therapist notices my frustration and believes I might be angry with her but unable to express it or possibly to feel it.
Perhaps, but if you are unable to express it, I think you'd know that; and if you are and can't feel it, you don't know about because you aren't ready to deal with it yet. IMO (In My Opinion) your answer would be correct in both situations.
> 3) T repeatedly suggests, over several sessions, that I am angry or irritated with her. Usually a question: Are you annoyed with me because you don't feel any better? Sometimes: I sense you're a little frustrated with me because you don't feel any better.
Have you noticed the area of discussion or what's being said just before this comes up? Something regarding the relationship that causes either of you discomfort? She should ask open-ended questions-allowing you to give a 'true' reply..
> 4) I continue to say, sincerely, that I feel frustrated by my situation more than by her. I dig up a little frustration with her but it doesn't amount to much.
>
You shouldn't need to *continue* to answer this question...if she thinks there's an anger issue, and you aren't answering, she should drop it and explore other areas...No wonder you dig up frustration with her....
> This is what *I fear* then happened:
> 5) Therapist, with good intentions, decides to *assist me to be angry* (not just to assist me expressing it) with her. Possibly she wants me to transfer anger at my illness or parents or whatever to her, in the interests of helping me get over it.
This may be a 'part' of therapy, but it isn't her job to help the process along. It's supposed to happen in it's own time (be warned, I'm not a Freud person and have problems with the transference aspect)
> 6) T proceeds to provoke me to be angry with her by pushing past my feelings of being manipulated and continuing to suggest I am angry with her. Possibly she thinks the easiest way she can make me angry with her is if she creates a situation where I notice being manipulated. She somehow does not see that this will also make me lose trust in her. Or worse, she foresees this but decides that I'll get over it.
>
This is a possiblity, and since you have these concerns, you should address this with her.
>
> Back to what actually did happen:
> The result of what I perceived as deliberate manipulation is that I do feel angry, betrayed, and disrespected. It is hard for me to respond to anything she says, especially things ending in a question mark. I resent my feelings because I feel that they were planted against my will.
>
> It is still difficult for me to dismiss the idea that this was deliberate, even if it was well-meaning: why would she tell me if it was? When we had our appt tonight she was trying hard to express caring, empathy, concern. But she would also do that if the plan was for me to transfer anger and work through it. She brought up transference ("maybe this reminds you of how you were treated by someone else") tonight. Is this "evidence", somehow? It's also a logical question. I don't know. I don't want to be in this second-guessing mode at all, but here I am.
>
Again-I think perhaps this is an issue of counter-transference...
> I guess writing this post has helped me to identify some of the "weak spots" in my suspicions. My natural tendency is to assume that the simplest explanation is true, even in psychotherapy, and I consider "it was a mistake" to be simpler than 5 and 6 above. I guess I'll have to wait and see if that's enough.
>
> M3, who has typed more than she thought she had and thanks any remaining readers for their patienceSometimes the answers are so simplistic we don't see them for that reason, other times they must be searched for; like on a treasure hunt with no map...
Sorry to be so long-windedKiddo
poster:kiddo
thread:18297
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020214/msgs/18501.html