Posted by Vincent_QC on March 4, 2010, at 9:13:02
In reply to Re: Medication Phobia (pharmacophobia), posted by bleauberry on March 3, 2010, at 20:11:08
> I think you need to give it a good try as best you can so that both of you can see what happens, good or bad. It doesn't matter what someone on a web forum says. We have to try things and see what happens. I just happen to think it won't work, but that doesn't mean it won't.
>Well, i'm having a hard time with meds... whatever the kind of problems I have, it's seem that I can't tolerate them anymore. I can't even take an innoffensive Advil to treat my migraine...
So i'm not sure for the Remeron. I don't take it before bedtime last night, I was scare, since I had only one 15mg dose 2 days ago and I can fell the adrenaline rush...
I also read alot last night about SSRI's and cortisol level and adrenal problems as well... it's seem that they discover that SSRI's are not very safe, like the older AD... They also seem to work better the first time you try them and after they leave you in a higher anxiety state...
>
> Remeron stimulates adrenaline.
> >I understand that part. Reputake is not the same mechanism of action than stimulation...
I had severe reactions to the TCA nortriptyline, had to stop it after 2 days on 20mg because I had a fast pulse rate of 150 bpm...
The Clomipramine was also very weak, not hitting harder the NE, but had too many side-effects to describe... I was feeling exhausted on that med and never was able to reach the effective dosage. Had to stop at 50mg...and drop out my therapy because I was not able to wake up in the morning...
The imipramine was also very hard to take for me. I was ok on 25mg... no improve for the panic and anxiety... and when I rise to 50mg, I start having a lot of side-effects, mostly cardiac effects and increase anxiety.
The older TCA's not work as reuptake inhibitors of the NE and to a lesser extend as reuptake inhibitors of the SE, but they also hit hard the a1-adrenergic receptor antagonists and a2-adrenergic receptor antagonists... and it's seem that I react badly to this kind of med. Especially the a1-adrenergic receptor antagonists.
The Remeron in other hands don't have the reuptake effect on the NE, just the a1-adrenergic receptor antagonist but more targeting the a2-adrenergic receptor... That why I was able in the past to handle it to high dose.
But something change in my body and my brains cause I can't tolerate that med now and your theory about low cortisol level, adrenal fatigue because of the chronic stress make a lot of sense.
In the same way, I will react badly to the Effexor-XR, Pristiq or Cymbalta... but they have no a1 -2 - adrenergic receptor antagonist effect... they just have the reuptake inhibitor effect on the NE and to a lesser extend to the SE... I have a lot of carciac reactions on them as well as increase anxiety, increase head pain, migraine, dizziness, constant fatigue, eyes pain...
>
> Generic, very undependable. The only trustworthy form of Prozac is brand. I can't tell you how many problems are caused by generics. Canada. Well, any country with national health care suffers in the ability to give proper care to everyone...just the opposite of what they claim when they initiate these national programs. They sound good, but never work. As long as you are cared for in Canada, your options will be less than if in USA. That's just the way it is, sadly.
>
> >I know ;-) That suck... In the Canada, if you are disable from work and have no private health inssurance, you have to take the generic meds, because you don't pay for them. The only meds that i'm able to have as a brand name is the Paxil, the Pristiq, the Cymbalta, Lyrica and the Lexapro, because Doctor and PDoc give them in samples box... All the others are generic. PEoples who pay for there meds can ask to have the brand name... but not peoples who are not working...that's stupid...
> The right one will be good. It might not be a med. It might be an herb or a vitamin. Whatever it is, you haven't tried it yet.
>We can talk about vitamins... I take for a long time ( 1-2 years)a complex of Vitamins B.
I take also for a long period of time some magnesium, chronium, omega 3, zinc supplements.
Because of my gastric by-pass, I have to take daily 30 000 units of vitamin A, 50 000 units of vitamin D3, 1500 mg of Calcium, 1200 mg of Iron and one Centrum.
I never had any improve for the anxiety from the Vitamin B or magnesium or zinc or anything else. Maybe I don't absorb them very well...
> >
>
> No, you haven't tried all of them. Probably not even 50% of them.
>Hummm... the list can be long. I try perhaps 70% of the meds that are used off-label for anxiety disorder...( Mirapex, Inderall and many others beta blockers, Clonidine, Topamax, Lyrica, Vigabatrin, Neurontin, all the AP as well as others off-label meds that I don't remember...).
I never explore the Cortisol way or any others infections meds...
I know that my Thyroid was tested last year and was ok... My MRI test is ok also and I will have a holler heart test as well as a treadmill test with ultrasound test for my heart...I have the holler machine the 9 march and the treadmill and ultrasound test the 18 march...
I will have to get all my hormones tested soon... Will ask my Family Doctor for sure... I have an appointment with him the 6 april...
> That is the reputation of ssris. Hopefully it will work out for you.
>I think a low dose of a SSRI, Paxil or Prozac will be effective... I just need time and go very slowly... I know that I will react badly to them, I mean increase anxiety at first, a lot of head pain, eyes pain, dilated pulils, high blood pressure with fast pulse rate or low pulse rate, but what I can do, nothing... I have the choice to stay like I am now, or the choice to take 2-3 months to increase the SSRI and see any improve... What is the best option... I think that staying at home for a couple of weeks because of the side-effects of the SSRI will not kill me, anyway, I already stay at home because of the high anxiety, so I see no difference.
> Well, why not give paxil another try? If you did, you would probably have to do it the same way...very tiny doses very slowly.
>Last december, I give it another try. I cut my 10 mg pills into 4 pieces, mean 2,5mg. Start at 2,5mg on day one, was ok...small increase of anxiety and head pain was stronger than usual but no problem, second day was horrible, start having this inner tension, not able to stay sit, not able to sleep, dilated pupils, very low pulse rate, strong depersonalization and derealization feeling, photophobia... I continue at 2,5mg for a whole week... at the end of the week I was completly exhausted and I give up. MAybe the 2,5mg was too high for me and that's why a 1 mg dose, or a 1/2 mg dose will be more appropriate to initial the treatment with me???
Anyway, I ending at my Family Doctor office and he was thinking that I was on a beta blocker drug because of the low pulse rate. He also do some others physical test, told me that I had no reflex, probably because of the high dose of benzos that I take, he RX a MRI test for the head pain, I have nothing wrong inside my head, no tumor or anything else... He just told me to stop the Paxil and suggest to replace it with low dose of Lexapro. He give me some sample boxes of the brand Lexapro call Cipralex in the Canada...
I cut the 10 mg of Lexapro pill into 4 pieces of 2,5mg and had a more bad adverst effects than on the Paxil... who make me a lot worry...
I fall on a studie where they use mouse who was born without adrenal system and they test all the SSRI's avaible to see if the SSRI's had an effect on the NE, even if they are apparently just hitting the SE... and they found out that mouse with no adrenal system had no improve in depression/anxiety from all the SSRI's, only one SSRI, the Celexa, had an effect on those mouse. I don'T have the link sorry...
That's suggest to me that the Celexa and the Lexapro are the only 2 pure SSRI's...and don't toutch the NE...
I'm wondering why I had bad reaction with the Lexapro, it's suppose to affect only the SE???
Is it my fear of meds who trigger all of the side-effects that I had with a small 2,5mg of Lexapro? Those side-effects was mostly high pulse rate, gastric discomfort, dizziness, vertigo, strong head pain, increase anxiety 100000 worse than usual, visual disturbances... Is it my imagination, why I felt worse on the LExapro than on the Paxil? Did I really have a problem with my adrenal system???
That's a lot of questions...but I don't have any clue or answer...
In the same way, I tend to have all the rare side-effects of each meds I try, not the usual, why i'm like this??? That's another mystery...
>
> Savella is not available in Canada. And you probably are not comfortable mailordering from international? It is available worldwide through the mail. Most of us who have ordered it got it by the name Milnacipran, easily found in a google search. Not suggesting it, just saying it is always an option. When someone says "it is not available", well, that just isn't true.
>IF you have a credit card or have a lot of money, maybe it's not a problem to order meds in the Canada, but by experience, I know that the Canadian border tend to block the package before they reach your house!!! Since I don't work, I don't have money to loose... Ordering meds seem to be easier in the USA than in the Canada.
The truth is that I wanted to order the Stablon (Coaxil) and never find a online pharmacy who deliver it into the Canada!!! They deliver in the States, but not here... And I talk with someone who order it regulary and that person told me that even in the States, she sometimes don't recieve her pills... Also, most of the time, the meds are false or generic from Indians... Taking a pill who contain things that I don't know is not really interresting...Well, brand name or official generic are also sometimes not safe!!! lol Anyway...
Also, why the Milnacipran will be better than the Cymbalta? I mean, they act the same way in the brains... The Cymbalta have maybe a more high potent level for binding the SE sites, but it's strong also for the NE... so I see no advantage to order a med, who will cost a lot of money for me, oever the option to try again the Cymbalta, who seem to be a lot like the Milnacipran...
> I totally disagree. Remeron will stimulate the NE, but with no brakes. It is like stepping on the accelerator pedal with no brakes. If someone wanted to purposedly upset the feedback loop and prevent it from working, Remeron is one of the meds that can do that. So it can make anxiety worse in that case.
>I understand that... and that's why I will not take it anymore... but I have to be back on a small dose of SSRI at least... they are maybe not good in a long term view, but on me, the block panic and fears... I prefer to be emotional blocked and gain weight than living in a constant anxiety state...
I also know that the Seroquel is not an option... apparently, it's decreasing the cortisol level... Since I use it 10 months in 2009, for my insomnia problem, at a dose of 50 mg, sometimes 100 mg, maybe I worse my anxiety problem because of the Seroquel???
I need something for the insomnia and the Seroquel is perhaps the only one solution who work for me. The Trazodone didn't help me at all to sleep...as well as the ZZZZZZZ benzo drugs...
>
> It won't happen in Canada, so sorry I mentioned it. This is beyond the science of any country with national health care.
>Yeah... I had to be VERY VERY insistant with my Family Doctor to have a simple MRI test rx!!!
When the Doctor know that you have anxiety disorder, they put you in a group call hypochondria peoples... and it's hard to have blood tests or others medical tests done... since the Doctor think that all what you are experiencing is purely comming from the anxiety and not a disease...
> As for something to block the cortisol, I think it is just the opposite. I think your cortisol may be extremely low. The exaggerated NE response is the body's way of trying to compensate for that. You want something to increase cortisol, not decrease it. Siberian Ginseng, Licorice.
>I take note of this... I'm not sure if I will be able to find the Siberian Ginseng in the Canada... Natural products are really well control here. I think the Licorice will be more easy to find...
>
> Excellent. At least you know. Few people even try.
>Hypoglycimia diet is good to loose some pounds... and overall to be in a good shape...and have an active life.
High protein diet are also good, maybe not because of the L-Trypothan who increase the serotonin level... Anyway... each time I do that kind of diet, with only vegetables, potassium intake, magnesium intake, fiber and protein shake, I have more energy and my mood is more good... anxiety can be worse at the begining, but that tend to dissepear after a while... I should consider to return on that diet soon... since I have 30 pounds to loose... The only problem is the energy level for exercises... the fact that it's a low calories diet, make it really hard to do physical exercises...
>
> This looks like a big clue. Probably a lot more relevant to your whole situation than you are giving it credit for.
>I know, but I never was able to have an true answer about meds absorbtion. The Surgeons always told me that the surgery was safe and don't affect peoples moods or start anxiety disorders diseases...
I know from my personnal experience that since I had that surgery, I feel really bad, mentally and physically. That surgery was a disaster for my self-esteem... and I loose all my muscles... I had morbid obesity before, but I had a lot more energy also and I was strong!!! Now i'm weak and can't even walk more than 10 minutes without being tired as hell!!! At the gym, it's impossible to work out, I become tired after 10 minutes also...
>
> All good questions, and I'm sorry I don't have any good answers. The best we can all do is guess. Doctors get paid a lot of money to do that, so I am disappointed they don't take your suffering more seriously.
>Yeah, they see me like an anxious person and treat me like what I live is just in my head... they don't care about my symptoms or how I feel really... they want to be pay, that's it...
> Whatever you do, do in tiny doses.
>That's what I will do... Maybe try again the Paxil and cut small piece of 1 mg and put them into gel capsule, I have them already... Will try it one day and see what happen... I have to choose a day that I know that I will not have to get out of the house... I'm affraid but what can I do??? Nothing else, since the Doc and PDoc don't seem to care about my physical state as well as my mental state...
Thanks for your answer ;-)
Will look for the Siberian ginsgen... I hope I will find it in the Canada...
Have a nice day !
Vincent ;-)
poster:Vincent_QC
thread:938472
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100216/msgs/938528.html