Posted by Vincent_QC on March 3, 2010, at 18:42:03
In reply to Re: Medication Phobia (pharmacophobia), posted by bleauberry on March 3, 2010, at 17:00:16
> I'm really sorry for the aweful things you are experiencing. I have been following the med sensitive bizarreness issue for some time. I could share some thoughts.
>
> Some of the most med sensitive people are so because of a reason. My LLMD (Lyme Literate MD) says most of his patients are that way. That doesn't mean you have Lyme or some other similar (many of them) infections. Or maybe it does. Who knows. But it does mean you are in the same company as them, for whatever reason.
>Being tested for lymes or any other infections is difficult... PDoc don'T think about those things...
> There is a good side and the bad side. You already shared your experience with the bad side. In the same way that small doses can really knock you for a loop, that also means that you may only need very tiny doses for therapeutic effect. My LLMD had multiple patients, for example, doing well on 1mg Lexapro. No healthy person would even feel 1mg. But for the med sensitive, it is probably equivalent to 20mg in terms of potency. That's the good side...you may not need much.
>Was on 30 mg of LExapro at some point and never had any side-effects , well not increase anxiety... it was just not working for me.
> Remeron stimulates norepinephrine release, but not reuptake inhibition. For someone with your symptoms, not cool. 15mg does a fair amount of that. In my experience with doses ranging from 1mg to 15mg, I can feel the NE effect beginning to show up at about 7.5mg. Below that it is almost pure antihistamine.
>Should I have to call my PDoc and told him that the Remeron is not for me ???
Also, I never had increase anxiety before with the Remeron... Strange that I can't tolerate it now!
> The orange juice trick with prozac. Dump the contents of a capsule in a glass of OJ. Stir it well, drink a custom size dose. For example, 1/4 of the glass (assuming 10mg capsule) is 2.5mg. Keeps well refrigerated for a week. Stir it good each time. You can now dose it as low as you want...1mg, 1/2mg, whatever.
>I have the generic liquid Prozac made by Apo in Canada. I'm from Canada... and it's the only one SSRI avalaible in liquid form.
My plan was to start it at 1mg, mean 1/4 ml of liquid Prozac... since 1 ml = 4 mg.
> That said, I don't think either remeron or prozac are very good choices for the presentation of your symptoms.
>Well, no meds seem to be good for the kind of my symptoms...
I try all of them, on and off-label in the past, I just devellopp a med phobia recently, after the Parnate experience.
I agree that the Zoloft, the Effexor-XR and the Prozac was in the past the ones that always increase my anxiety.
> While it appears noradrenaline has gone awry, and you may well be right it has, it would seem ridiculous to take a med that is strong on supporting noradrenaline, right?"
I agree with you... that's why the PDoc suggest a low dose of SSRI... Serotonin seem to work better for anxiety disorders like panic or phobias, for me only... we are all different.
Last summer, I was able to start slowly the Paxil, I start at 2,5mg and go up to 20mg in 1 1/2 months. It was hard, I remember that I had a lot of side-effects like sweating and weight gain and sedation. I stop it because of the weight gain... now I can say it was a mistake to stop it, since it was working for my problems. I was able to drive my car and go out of the house without any problems or increase anxiety. I was not 100% symptoms free, but I was 10000 better than I am now for sure!!!
"" Well, not so fast. Due to feedback loops, boosting an overative noradrenaline system will actually slow it down. Excellent med for that, Savella. I'm talking 3mg to 6.25mg once or twice a day, expecting slight increase of symptoms for 3 days followed by calming when the feedback loops catch on to what is happening. Pills can be cut, capsules an be customized at home.
>It's not avaible in the Canada! And if it's working on the NE, why it will be better than the Remeron or the Effexor-XR or the Cymbalta or any older TCA's who work hard on the NE?
My PDoc think that stimulate a little bit the NE will decrease the over activity of the adrenaline release in my body...Well that's it's idea with the Remeron... and the Prozac for the SE effect who will block the panic on me...
> It sounds like your cortisol is way out of whack. A saliva test with 4 samples in a 24 hour period would be needed to see.
>I know that some meds exist to block the cortisol... but like I write before, even if I have this test done, what I will do with the results??? Also, it will be hard to get that test from my PDoc... He don't take care of these kind of problems... and always told me that my family Doctor is the one who have to RX those tests on me...
> It sounds like the gut is messed up. Leaky gut. Candida. Both. Gluten intolerance. Something in that arena. That's probably how the things got into your bloodsystem that shouldn't have gotten there, that triggered the Parnate reaction.
>I try severals diets change... I cut the gluten... see no change... I cut the sugar or rafined floor and also try the hypoglycimia diet... no change...
I had a gastric by-pass, not the USA version, my intestine are short, only 1,50 meter long, the other part is cut and not working... that's why I always had no effect from XR or SR meds...
Me and the PDoc are not sure if it's affect also the regular meds. And the Surgeons who do the gastric by-pass didn't do research about the impact of the surgery on the meds absorbtion...
> There is a lot more going on here than just the symptoms you feel. I know people hate to hear me say it, but that's the way it is. The most likely culprit in my opinion is an unknown unsuspected infection within. That is another whole topic though. For now, if mere symptoms relief is the primary goal, remeron, benzos, ssris...all bad choices that will actually make it all worse.
>
> My thoughts.
>
>
Ok, for the Benzos I agree... The next goal will be to wothdrawl the benzo... will tapering the Rivotril with the Valium... it's work in the past and I know I will be able to do it...I will do that after the PDoc and I will find the good med for me and when I will be anxiety free or at least stable.
For the SSRI's, I know that the Paxil work last summer... So I wonder why I can't return on it now. I try to start it again at 2,5mg and it was too much for me... I will have to try it at 1mg... cutting the pill will be hard, since the Paxil can't be mix in orange juice or water... and the liquid version don't exist in the Canada.
So for now I don't know what to do...
Did I try again the remeron at 7,5mg...
Did I take the Seroquel at bedtime, 50 mg, to help me to sleep, insistead of the Remeron? Will avoid the NE effect???
Did I just try to cut my Paxil pill in 1 mg piece ( very difficult, even with a pill cutter, i try it!!! )...
Did I call my family Doctor and ask him to have test for infections???
If I call my Family Doctor, what kind of test I have to ask??? Lymes, Cortisol and ???
Oh and I forget, my anxiety got worse also at the gym, I think it was related to the adrenaline level... The gym start the panic disorder on me... after severals months without being panic free...
Also, the list of symptoms that I wrote in my initial thread are mostly new, except the heart effect and the dilated pupils... They appear after I had a really painfull surgery last november... A surgery for the hemmorroids... Since that surgery, the symptoms appears one by one and I Feel worse each day!!!
I had a low hemoglobin level and no iron in my blood before the surgery. 1 month after the surgery, my hemoglobin level goes from 74 to 143, who is normal now... and my iron level goes from 1 to 8...
Do you think that those things can affect also the anxiety? I mean that my brains was used to have low oxygen because of the anemia and low hemoglobin... so a suddent raise of iron and hemoglobin mean more oxygen in the brain... Maybe my body need some time to adjust???
Maybe what I experience now is linked to that also ???
poster:Vincent_QC
thread:938472
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100216/msgs/938484.html