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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 12:11:44
My husband is aware that I am fond of PB and PSB and, in fact, sometimes use it like a kind of diary. Writing down your thoughts helps to organize them with the added bonus of maybe giving or getting advice from other posters.
My husband (who does not participate in this website) got on here one day and read everything I ever wrote.
He was FURIOUS with me. I might have criticized him, just to blow off steam, or possibly he was unaware of the extent of my drug abuse, which I did try to hide from him (I'm clean now...hurrah for me).
He barely spoke to me for days, and he was so angry that he drove hundreds of miles to spend the Thanksgiving Holiday with cousins he barely knew - of course, I was not invited. I made the best of it by having an "orphan's party" for freinds that couldn't make it home to spend Thanksgiving with their own families, but I was still extremely hurt.
I considered giving up PB, because I couldn't imagine having to edit everything I said just in case my husband decided to "check up" on me. But I don't think that's fair...especially when I'm depressed, there are so few things I enjoy doing, and having him take this away from me is unfair. So I changed my screen name
and hope he doesn't find out.
-Mata Hari
Posted by finelinebob on January 29, 2002, at 19:10:51
In reply to Hell hath no wrath, posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 12:11:44
Sure, this IS a public forum, but he's wrong. If he's going to come snooping around here to read what he thinks you've written, then he has no right taking it out on you.
Of course, he does have the right to post about his own feelings without "outting" you (Babble civility, even between partners) ... but people who get their noses bent out of shape from snooping things out and taking them out of context (and you writing on this board IS DEFINITELY NOT the same context as your relationship with him!) deserve to have their noses BROKEN, not bent out of shape, if you ask me.
(which you didn't, but I'll say it anyway)
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
flb
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2002, at 19:27:15
In reply to Hell hath no wrath, posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 12:11:44
What a major breach of trust! My husband doesn't like my posting here at all, but he has promised not to read the board and I trust him to keep that promise. It wouldn't be hard for anyone who knew me to figure out who I am. And sometimes I post mood sensitive things that might not be true in a different mood or in a different context. So I really wouldn't want him to read them.
I'm not suggesting that you do this or anything, but I would be tempted to sign back on as the name he knew me as and write something that would really make him take notice. Lucy and Ethel schemes are racing through my mind.
Oh well, chalk it up as a learning experience. You learned far more about him than he learned about you.
My sympathy,
Dinah
Posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 21:04:53
In reply to Re: Hell hath no wrath, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2002, at 19:27:15
Thanks guys, I do feel the same way. I don't go through his wallet or phone numbers or pockets
because I feel that trust is so important to a marriage. We've been together for 18 years and married for 13, and he's never done anything like that before. Maybe he just wanted to know what was so damn interesting. His main problem is that he has a great deal of trouble dealing with his deeper emotions and refuses to discuss them when I try to "draw him out". I do know him well enough to realize that he complains constantly when something is bothering him, but it doesn't have anything to do with what is really troubling him. He'll lose his mind if he can't find a tool on his workbench, and later on I'll learn that his boss chewed him out for something inconsequential.
I haven't gone back over my posts to try and figure out what made him so furious. I know I've said things like, "He doesn't understand me" or maybe I complain about his friends, who encourage him to stay out late and drink. But I've NEVER said anything like, "The guy is a bastard and I wish he was dead" or "he can't get it up in bed" or anything seriously insulting, because I've never felt that way about him. When I asked him what I said that was so terrible, true to form, he refused to discuss it. But he was very, very angry, to the point of discussing seperation and a possible divorce. Maybe he just didn't know how screwed up I was, although I don't see how this is possible. When I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital, we were both present when a psychiatrist
asked me to be truthful about my Ultram abuse. I told her honestly that it varied according to the kind of day I was having at work. She asked me how many I might take during a very stressful day and again, I told her the truth.
"Maybe thirty," I said, and my husband visibly blanched. I already knew what a terrible, dangerous habit I had acquired...according to a phrase from Angela's Ashes, I had gone "beyond the beyonds." But he never reacted like he did to my postings on PB.
One interesting note: when my husband was so angry with me, I volunteered to go to marriage counseling with him. He scoffed at this, calling it nothing but "mud-slinging".
When my bipolar symptoms returned with a vegeance, he suggested I return to a psychiatrist and I agreed. I made an appointment for Thursday,
and he announced that he was going with me. Of course, my subconcious signalled, "Up periscope".
Does he really want to understand more about my emotional problems or is he simply afraid that I'll talk about him? I hate to think of him as that petty and insecure. Incidentally, he's a very intelligent person and not usually emotionally weak - he's a firefighter. I hope that his interest in my problems - which he's never displayed much interest in before - is a sign that he realizes I need help and I can improve with his emotional support. He's forgiven me for my "transgressions" on PB, whatever they were.
We hope for the best-
Gracie
Posted by ST on January 31, 2002, at 17:46:24
In reply to Re: Hell hath no wrath, posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 21:04:53
Hi,
I was touched by your story. I wish your husband was more understanding; we all need people to listen to us. I went back and read some of your old posts. You speak honestly about how your husband makes you feel when he's not very supportive, his reactions toward you and how they affect you...nothing bad! But if he is not good at dealing with emotions, simply being discussed in this forum may be enough to have set him off. That time your dad cried and you came home to a very unsympathetic husband - OUCH! He may have felt vulnerable and angry after reading that. Especially the part where you say you want to run away to the swamplands or go be a hotel maid somewhere for awhile! It sounds like he's so bottled up, his anger is misplaced. He may be angry at himself for not being more supportive of you but the fact that you discuss that on this board makes him even more furious and then he just becomes this big ball of anger, unable to express why he's so upset. It would be great if the two of you could get some counseling together, just to learn how to communicate. Just some thoughts. Good luck with all this!
Sarah
>
> Thanks guys, I do feel the same way. I don't go through his wallet or phone numbers or pockets
> because I feel that trust is so important to a marriage. We've been together for 18 years and married for 13, and he's never done anything like that before. Maybe he just wanted to know what was so damn interesting. His main problem is that he has a great deal of trouble dealing with his deeper emotions and refuses to discuss them when I try to "draw him out". I do know him well enough to realize that he complains constantly when something is bothering him, but it doesn't have anything to do with what is really troubling him. He'll lose his mind if he can't find a tool on his workbench, and later on I'll learn that his boss chewed him out for something inconsequential.
> I haven't gone back over my posts to try and figure out what made him so furious. I know I've said things like, "He doesn't understand me" or maybe I complain about his friends, who encourage him to stay out late and drink. But I've NEVER said anything like, "The guy is a bastard and I wish he was dead" or "he can't get it up in bed" or anything seriously insulting, because I've never felt that way about him. When I asked him what I said that was so terrible, true to form, he refused to discuss it. But he was very, very angry, to the point of discussing seperation and a possible divorce. Maybe he just didn't know how screwed up I was, although I don't see how this is possible. When I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital, we were both present when a psychiatrist
> asked me to be truthful about my Ultram abuse. I told her honestly that it varied according to the kind of day I was having at work. She asked me how many I might take during a very stressful day and again, I told her the truth.
> "Maybe thirty," I said, and my husband visibly blanched. I already knew what a terrible, dangerous habit I had acquired...according to a phrase from "Angela's Ashes", I had gone "beyond the beyonds." But he never reacted like he did to my postings on PB.
> One interesting note: when my husband was so angry with me, I volunteered to go to marriage counseling with him. He scoffed at this, calling it nothing but "mud-slinging".
> When my bipolar symptoms returned with a vegeance, he suggested I return to a psychiatrist and I agreed. I made an appointment for Thursday,
> and he announced that he was going with me. Of course, my subconcious signalled, "Up periscope".
> Does he really want to understand more about my emotional problems or is he simply afraid that I'll talk about him? I hate to think of him as that petty and insecure. Incidentally, he's a very intelligent person and not usually emotionally weak - he's a firefighter. I hope that his interest in my problems - which he's never displayed much interest in before - is a sign that he realizes I need help and I can improve with his emotional support. He's forgiven me for my "transgressions" on PB, whatever they were.
> We hope for the best-
> Gracie
Posted by Shar on January 31, 2002, at 23:06:54
In reply to Re: Hell hath no wrath, posted by ST on January 31, 2002, at 17:46:24
Maybe I've lost count of screen names, but if he reads your post he will know who White Rabbit is talking about (him). Do you need another screen name for a fresh start?
BTW, I think some folks change little details in things that make their posts less identifiable. Not the ideal situation, could be sort of stifling for spontaneity...but, can still get the idea across. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to resort to that, but as we all know.....
Good luck,
Shar
Posted by White Rabbit on February 1, 2002, at 2:09:56
In reply to Another screen name now?, posted by Shar on January 31, 2002, at 23:06:54
Shar-
He won't read any posts without the name of Gracie on it, because he's just not that interested, unless someone posts about the Bruins.
"White Rabbit" won't mean anything to him. (Incidentally, I chose the name because I'm always late.) It feels like a sneaky thing to do but my God, he got so angry and he wouldn't even tell me why! Again, I thought about giving up PB altogether, but would he give up going to sports bars with his friends to watch "the game of the year" (somehow, there are quite a few "games of the year") because it irritates me? He drops quite a bit of money at these things and stays out very late. I might want him to stop going to these bars, but people in Hell also want ice water.Besides, I am seeing a psychiatrist again and I'm back on medication. PB has been an invaluable source of information for me and over the last couple of years I've learned so much about my diagnosis and treatment. When I was first treated by a psychiatrist, I knew nothing about the drugs I was taking or the effect they might have. How ignorant!! (Or "ignert" as we say here in Missouri.) I feel like I was the girl on Hee-Haw with the blond ponytails and the painted-on freckles. I would take my new prescription with a big stupid grin and say, "Oookaay!" (I realize that I'm dating myself here, but I was VERY young.) Anyway, no more of that, boy. If my husband can drink from his longneck and watch a bunch of men killing each other on a big-screen TV, I should be allowed to discuss my emotional problems (it's official now - bipolar) and medication with others that have similiar experiences. It might not be the kind of "bonding" he does with his friends, but it helps you feel that you're not alone and crazy.
So here I still am, incognito.
W.R.
Posted by White Rabbit on February 1, 2002, at 3:26:39
In reply to Re: Hell hath no wrath, posted by ST on January 31, 2002, at 17:46:24
I think you're right, his anger is misplaced, or possibly he felt, "She doesn't appreciate me after all I've done." I forgot about the hotel maid thing and the swampland, that must have got to him, but I think he misunderstood. I started having those thoughts when my life was very complicated...my mother, Medusa, lived nearby, and her involvement in my life caused constant turmoil. (She has since moved to Texas.) My son was flunking out of school, my boss was a demon sent directly from Hell to follow me around and jab me with a pitchfork, our 100-year-old house was deteriorating from a leak in the roof that we couldn't afford to fix, my husband and I were fighting from all the tension and I just wanted peace...I just wanted quiet and peace. Of course, he must have understood that to mean I wanted to get away from him.
Also, he might have been angry that I was "airing our dirty laundry" to a bunch of strangers, as if it would have been preferable for me to call his mother and tell her what a bastard her son was (which I never thought or said to anyone).
I didn't read my old posts because then I would want to explain them to him or defend myself, and he would just get pissed off again. A stronger woman could take it, but I can't. I will have to live with the fact that he blocks nearly every emotion except anger, unless the Pats win in overtime or PJ breaks someone's nose.
He is good to me. We argue like any couple, but as a child I was raised in a violent house - my parents beat each other and us kids, and we kids beat the hell out of each other - once, around the age of 16, I threw my brother headfirst through a plate-glass door, which did so much damage that he needed surgery.
I was so horrified and remorseful, I swore that I would never raise my hand to another human being, and I never have. I also told my husband I would not permit any kind of physical violence or punishment in my house - not to me, my child, to his friends - not to anyone. So we don't live that way.
Still, the fact that your husband doesn't beat you doesn't make him the perfect husband. I believe he is loyal to me. I was hospitalized twice in a year for mental problems and he was always attentive, coming to see me every day from the beginning to the end of visiting hours. Prehaps you read this before, because I don't write just to "badmouth" him. He was working overtime one night when I had a seizure from an overdose. My son called an ambulance and paged my husband, who rushed home just in time to watch the paramedic questioning me. I had come out of the seizure but was still confused...I could remember my age but not my birthdate, couldn't name the US President, remembered the name of the street where I lived but not the house number. The paramedic said I HAD to go to the hospital even though I didn't want to. The horrible thing was, in our city, the EMTs are part of the fire department and my husband, as a firefighter, was a friend of the EMTs. I was terribly embarrassed
for him, of what the EMTs must think of his junkie wife. My husband never mentioned it and it never seemed to bother him. Later on, at the hospital, I was so appalled by what I had done, so sorry that his friends had witnessed my stupidity, I cried with shame. He was amazed that I cared about something "so trivial". He kept saying that the important thing was that I was okay and alive. I was so greatful to him and the EMTs, who were so professional and whenever they saw my husband, they always asked with real concern if I was alright. I sent them a thank-you card.
I'm sure I wrote about that, but maybe he didn't read it or maybe the "bad" things I said about him were more important in his mind. He seems to be okay with me now, so I'll just take it day by day.
-G
Posted by ST on February 2, 2002, at 4:13:52
In reply to Sarah, posted by White Rabbit on February 1, 2002, at 3:26:39
Yes, it seems people remember the "bad" things we say about them and not all of the good. Maybe your husband needs to know how much you do appreciate him. That's wonderful that he was so supportive of you about the overdose situation! I always thank my boyfriend for being so patient and loving because I'm such a wreck half the time.
Sarah>
> I think you're right, his anger is misplaced, or possibly he felt, "She doesn't appreciate me after all I've done." I forgot about the hotel maid thing and the swampland, that must have got to him, but I think he misunderstood. I started having those thoughts when my life was very complicated...my mother, Medusa, lived nearby, and her involvement in my life caused constant turmoil. (She has since moved to Texas.) My son was flunking out of school, my boss was a demon sent directly from Hell to follow me around and jab me with a pitchfork, our 100-year-old house was deteriorating from a leak in the roof that we couldn't afford to fix, my husband and I were fighting from all the tension and I just wanted peace...I just wanted quiet and peace. Of course, he must have understood that to mean I wanted to get away from him.
> Also, he might have been angry that I was "airing our dirty laundry" to a bunch of strangers, as if it would have been preferable for me to call his mother and tell her what a bastard her son was (which I never thought or said to anyone).
> I didn't read my old posts because then I would want to explain them to him or defend myself, and he would just get pissed off again. A stronger woman could take it, but I can't. I will have to live with the fact that he blocks nearly every emotion except anger, unless the Pats win in overtime or PJ breaks someone's nose.
> He is good to me. We argue like any couple, but as a child I was raised in a violent house - my parents beat each other and us kids, and we kids beat the hell out of each other - once, around the age of 16, I threw my brother headfirst through a plate-glass door, which did so much damage that he needed surgery.
> I was so horrified and remorseful, I swore that I would never raise my hand to another human being, and I never have. I also told my husband I would not permit any kind of physical violence or punishment in my house - not to me, my child, to his friends - not to anyone. So we don't live that way.
> Still, the fact that your husband doesn't beat you doesn't make him the perfect husband. I believe he is loyal to me. I was hospitalized twice in a year for mental problems and he was always attentive, coming to see me every day from the beginning to the end of visiting hours. Prehaps you read this before, because I don't write just to "badmouth" him. He was working overtime one night when I had a seizure from an overdose. My son called an ambulance and paged my husband, who rushed home just in time to watch the paramedic questioning me. I had come out of the seizure but was still confused...I could remember my age but not my birthdate, couldn't name the US President, remembered the name of the street where I lived but not the house number. The paramedic said I HAD to go to the hospital even though I didn't want to. The horrible thing was, in our city, the EMTs are part of the fire department and my husband, as a firefighter, was a friend of the EMTs. I was terribly embarrassed
> for him, of what the EMTs must think of his junkie wife. My husband never mentioned it and it never seemed to bother him. Later on, at the hospital, I was so appalled by what I had done, so sorry that his friends had witnessed my stupidity, I cried with shame. He was amazed that I cared about something "so trivial". He kept saying that the important thing was that I was okay and alive. I was so greatful to him and the EMTs, who were so professional and whenever they saw my husband, they always asked with real concern if I was alright. I sent them a thank-you card.
> I'm sure I wrote about that, but maybe he didn't read it or maybe the "bad" things I said about him were more important in his mind. He seems to be okay with me now, so I'll just take it day by day.
> -G
Posted by Shar on February 3, 2002, at 16:43:33
In reply to Re: Sarah, posted by ST on February 2, 2002, at 4:13:52
WR--
I'm glad you're gonna stay with the Babbles and keep posting. Your input over the years (well, I think it is at least more than one year) has been wonderful, as has getting to know you. The things you said in your posts never made me think your husband was unbearably awful, and I clearly remember you talking about that situation when you had a seizure and EMTs came, to his credit he did exactly the right thing (IMHO).Bipolar, eh? When did you get that dx? What are you taking? Are you bpII?
Shar
Posted by trouble on February 11, 2002, at 11:31:24
In reply to Hell hath no wrath, posted by White Rabbit on January 29, 2002, at 12:11:44
Thank you finelinebob for your princely response.
I wish more men would respond to this lady's post, b/c this husband's reaction is IMO culturally supportable, and though I know that's wrong, it would make me feel better to see more male agreement. OR disagreement, if there are guys out there who can commiserate w/ this fellows reaction, I'd listen w/ an open mind and try to see his perspective.
This is such a big bewildering difference btwn guys and dolls! Most men know from the gitgo that I'm a woman who runs her mouth so Mr. Decorum need not apply, but every man I've ever been with has eventually expressed disdain about my need for mutual support and confession among a like-minded community. As if it's a weakness of mine he doesn't have, or approve of.
CONTROL! CONTROL! Why does control give them such a hard-on, especially when women always and ultimately chafe at the bit? Arggggh!
There are so many real problems btwn the sexes that truly deserve our sober consideration but they just make this one up, it has no basis outside social systems inspired by Mussolini, and try telling him that and you get a 15 minute lecture on the ins and out of fascism, and why the analogy does not apply in our particular circumstances.BOYS!! You can't live with 'em and you can't ship 'em to Belsen.
Posted by IsoM on February 11, 2002, at 12:09:26
In reply to we need more men, posted by trouble on February 11, 2002, at 11:31:24
Believe it or not, I know some 'real' gentlemen. Trouble is (no pun intended), they're already married. AND I know it's not a public act only. These men & their families are good friends of mine & I've known them for many years. I've seen them a lot around their wives & families - 'reading' people well, I can tell by the interactions that they truly are kind, loving, AND understanding.
One of them in particular is the sweetest guy I've ever met. He's no wuss - tall, good looking & strong, & would fight to the death for his family & would honestly give his life for others too. I was talking yesterday with them about a nature documentary as they're as nuts about science & nature as I am. The more enthused I became, the more my hands waved around gesturing. Conrad said "you're so cute" & gave me a big hug. He's the only man who truly feels like a brother to me & so safe. I so, so miss that sort of family interaction that I see with them. I feel like asking if they'll adopt me.
Other examples I know are often similar. One young husband's wife has been through hell with a serious long-term infection of mononucleosis, now CFS & lots of mood swings thrown in for good measure. He adores his wife & will help her through anything. She in turn adores him. There's quite a few more I know like this.
My own sons are amazing men with 'buckets' of empathy. I read once that Sally Fields (who was with Mr. Obnoxious himself - Burt Reynolds) said that her generation of women (me) raised their sons to be the type of men that they had always wanted. I think it's quite true, the sons are often a reflection into how much the mothers spent talking with & teaching them. To me, fathers give strength (I don't mean physical) to a family while mothers give heart to it.
This is the end of the thread.
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