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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
Well its only been 3 days and I'm back. I figure I'm going to be just as big of a doufus regardless of whether I'm posting or not, and there's no reason to stop posting just because of that. No need to try to talk me out of thinking I'm an idiot right now though... I'm in extra high gear-self hatred mode right now. It's fine.
For those of you who have had bad experiences with a therapist in the past... how do you move on? I've asked this question before regarding my experience with Anne, wondering how to let go of the hurt, the anger, etc... but I'm wondering something different now.
I find I am not connecting with Ginny at all. She is very smart, asks the right questions, but I'm just not connecting with her. I imagine its partly because I'm holding back so I dont get hurt again after my last experience. Have any of you dealt with this before? How did you handle it?
It's been about 2 months, maybe a little more, with Ginny now. And I'm starting to get a very scary feeling. She's starting to remind me of Anne. Not in regards to the "termination" or abandonment.. she actually just told me today that I could call her over Christmas and shed call back. That feels very good (although I dont get the warm fuzzy feeling I wish it gave me). More in regards to the feeling I have when I leave. Today after I left the office, I sat in my car and cried, not because of anything we'd discussed, but because I'm hurting so bad and there is so much wrong, and I just didnt feel like any of it was talked about or heard. It isnt that she missed it.. I wasnt really clear that there were bigger things to discuss, and she generally "picks a topic" if I dont lead into one. I cant blame her for that. But I feel like shes missing the real me by 5000 miles. I used to feel this way almost every session with Anne (although with her I think it was mostly her missing the point, not me leaving things unsaid). I dont think shes like Anne at all... but for some reason, I seem to be playing out a pattern that I got into with her.
I guess it feels like there is just no reason to go to therapy. I feel like I'm talking to a friend. It's never uncomfortable or particularly hard, except when she asks me about my sex life haha. I WANT it to be hard.
I just dont know what to do. It's not as easy as "tell her what it is shes missing" because I cant say exactly what that is. Sometimes it just feels like she is missing the pain altogether. She knows how bad it is.. I know she does. I guess I just dont feel supported. But shes never given me a reason not to. It's that lack of connection I guess. I am tempted to just quit therapy. I know it's mostly me causing the problems. I know they say it isnt possible, but truly, I dont think I do therapy right. I have to be willing to throw more out there before anything will ever help.
***minor SI trigger***
I SIed for the first time in about a year on Sunday. It was minor, but still. I did tell her that today. She was visibly unhappy about it. Supportive, but I could tell she wasnt happy. I feel like a bad little girl. But what else can I do? I told her today... it's not that I cant make it through my days without SI anymore, its just that I cant make it through without SOMETHING. I just cant.
So in conclusion.. Can any of you suggest ways to deal with the history anne has left me with in relation to my current T? How to move on and do good therapy after that? How to feel more connected? How to deal with any of this?
I know I need to talk to her about this. I guess I just feel like shes so sweet, and so friendly and lively, I'm afraid I'm breaking some unspoken rule with her. I know she wouldnt agree with that. But that's how it feels.
Posted by annierose on December 19, 2006, at 16:48:47
In reply to not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
You say you want it to be hard, but yet you do not tell her how you feel. That's the hard part. You have to let her in if you want her to help you --- but that IS hard.
When you wrote that she now reminds you of Anne, a yellow flag should go off. When our patterns repeat themselves - and they do - it says more about us than the other person. It's our inner voice re-enacting again and again the same pattern we have come to know and be comfortable with. In order to break that pattern, it takes courage. Tell Ginny what you wrote here. That you see this same pattern taking shape and that scares you.
One thing that is very hard to remember, as much as we wished that our therapists could read our minds, they cannot. She is missing the pain because you are not telling her about it. I know, she "should" know. But she doesn't unless you tell her.
I'm sorry you feel so sad lately. It is common for therapy with a therapist to go smoothly at first, you feel a sense of relief, and then the "real" work begins --- the week in and week out of life and its travails. Let Ginny help you.
Good Luck,
Annie
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 19, 2006, at 17:30:10
In reply to not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
***I dont think shes like Anne at all... but for some reason, I seem to be playing out a pattern that I got into with her.***
This really struck a chord with me and I'm guessing it's more true than you give it credit for. I know I have, over and over in my life, set up similar situations hoping that they will come out better this time.
I also think it's hard to bond with anyone when you're depressed, and you've been horribly depressed since you met Ginny. So something that might happen in 2 months when you're not depressed might not happen for 6 or 12 months when you are.
I really hope you will hang in there and see if it happens. I do think Ginny is trying to be supportive and I think over time as you each get to know the other a little better, she will read you better even if you can't tell her.
But I'm sorry you're in this place for right now.
Posted by toojane on December 19, 2006, at 19:39:02
In reply to not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
> I am tempted to just quit therapy...So in conclusion.. Can any of you suggest ways to deal with the history anne has left me with in relation to my current T? How to move on and do good therapy after that? How to feel more connected? How to deal with any of this?
Wishingstar, TELL. Tell Ginny everything. All things. Tell her exactly what you are thinking and feeling. Tell about crying in the parking lot and tell about your longing for connection and tell about how she "feels" like Anne. If you are willing to quit therapy, why not take the chance and tell Ginny everything first. From what you've posted Ginny has proved herself a reliable, caring and trustworthy therapist. Hold your breath and just jump. Remember how desperately you wished for help months ago. Ginny is sitting right in front of you offering it (you can call over Christmas??? What more could she do to prove she is there for you?)
Posted by pegasus on December 19, 2006, at 22:01:01
In reply to not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
Hi wishingstar,
I agree with what the other posters say. You'll probably get the best results if you tell Ginny what you told us. But I don't know if that will help you feel more connected. Seems to me that it might, or it might not. But anyway, it's bound to lead to some interesting discussion that might open up some new insight for you.
But what I mostly wanted to respond to is how you want to quit therapy because you don't feel that you're connecting. You asked if anyone had experience with that, and I kind of do. I've been seeing my current T for around 2 years, and at first I found it disturbing that we didn't have the same kind of energy around our relationship that I'd had with other Ts, and that so many people here talk about. I felt like we were not connecting all that well, and that anyway I didn't really care what she thought. But I kept going, I guess because I was finding therapy useful even when it had so much less energy. I mean, I was still figuring things out, and benefiting somehow from having someone to tell all my hard stuff to.
So, anyway, just recently I went through a really tough time, and our relationship has really started to change. It feels a lot more solid, and I think we're connecting better. I've given up trying to have the therapy relationship I'd had with the previous T with her, and instead I'm looking more closely at what our actual relationship feels like. And it feels pretty good, although a lot less charged. Of course, I miss the charge. And also, I'm glad not to have it sometimes. It made therapy so full of drama. This time I feel so much more like I'm fully working on *my* stuff, and putting a lot less energy into guessing what's going on with the T. Which feels healthier.
So, I guess my point is that maybe that magical feeling of connection is not a necessary ingredient for good therapy, and maybe it actually gets in the way sometimes. Although, I think it can also be helpful when things go well, because successfully attaching to someone who can help you grow and learn can be a really powerful good thing. But I'm finding that a lot of good therapy work can be done when you just let the relationship be whatever it is, warts and all, and not necessarily look for some specific thing to happen.
peg
Posted by wishingstar on December 20, 2006, at 8:58:45
In reply to not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 19, 2006, at 16:03:30
Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
I guess first of all I just want to make clear that I know it's mostly about me, not about her. She's not doing anything wrong - in fact, she probably couldnt be more supportive and sweet and caring if she tried. Like the offering a phone call over Christmas, when its only a 1 week break anyway... in the past I definitely would have gotten the warm fuzzies from this. Now I'm not. That isnt her fault obviously. It's me.
What I dont understand is the pattern, or how I got myself into this. If it's a pattern, I think it's a new one. I dont remember feeling this way with any T (or anyone else really) before Anne. It started with Anne and I got myself so worked up trying to fix it, when she really wasnt able to meet me where I needed to be, that now my radar are up. Maybe I'm just not trusting or opening up to anyone because on some level I'm convinced it doesnt matter (I dont actually feel that consciously, but its my best guess). I think I want her to pull it out of me, but I know that isnt her job or even particularly helpful. It's possible that I have set myself up for this, but I just dont know how. Therapygirl, your comment about possibly setting myself up to make things turn out better has made me think. I wonder if I'm not trying to MAKE her into Anne, just to fix it again, and see if shell withstand it and come out "good" in the end. That just struck me, but it seems very possible.
Pegasus, thanks for sharing your story with me. I think you made a really good point, one that I hadnt really considered yet. I really thrive on emotionally intense relationships, in therapy and otherwise, and I really really want my Ts to care about me and like me. I yearn for that deep connection, and it has probably gotten in the way before. For instance, had I not been so stuck on that, I probably would have left Anne a long time before it ended. I'm going to try to keep your perspective in mind when I am feeling disconnected. It's okay to feel that way if the work is good. And Ginny definitely knows her stuff.
Toojane, thanks for your post especially. For some reason, it really clicked for me - just the way it was worded. You're right. I need to at least tell her all this and give her a chance to react before I do anything else (quit therapy). What's the worst that can happen? If nothing else, it'd be practice for me in being open and expressing feelings, which I'm terrible at.
I see Ginny tomorrow morning. I am going to try my best to talk about some of this. Can someone on here ask me about it tomorrow? I know that sounds weird, but a little accountability might help. Of course you dont HAVE to.
If I'm not able to, I'm going to ask her if I can send her a letter/email over christmas and tell her these things. That way it's out there. The longer I wait, the harder itll get and the more frustrated I'll be.
You all always have the best advice. Thank you.
Posted by wishingstar on December 20, 2006, at 10:34:59
In reply to Re: not connecting with T (long), posted by wishingstar on December 20, 2006, at 8:58:45
I just had the weirdest experience. In a good way.
Laurie called me 2-3 weeks ago to check in and see how I was, but I missed her call. Since then I'd left 2 "heres an update, call if you can/want to" messages, the latest being a few days ago. I figured shed call back at some point, but since shes an old T, I didnt really know when and wasnt expecting it at any certain time.
I went outside today to clean out my car and on a whim brought my cell with me. I've tried to keep it with me lately because I know shed call eventually, but I generally have it with me anyway. But I decided to grab it and put it in my pocket. I hate missing calls. So I clean out my car and I'm walking back up the stairs to my apartment, and it rings. I didnt recognize the number. It was her. What are the chances? I guess it was her cell. How weird is that?
We talked for about 10 min. In my last message I'd made mention of not feeling connected with Ginny and she asked about that. I told her that I know it's me, not Ginny, etc etc.. and Laurie encouraged me to talk to her about it. She gave me a good suggestion. She said I can mention how she (Laurie) called me today to check in and recount the conversation for Ginny as a way to easily lead into the issue. I think I am going to do that. It's much easier than just bringing it up out of the blue.
We only talked a few minutes, but at the end she said that shes thinking of me and that I'm not alone because shes always out there wondering, etc etc... and she said that I can know what she is always watching me and what I do because we have that connection. I told her that last bit was a little scary and we both laughed. But I know what she meant. I really wonder how much of all that is really "real" for her.. real on an emotional level. Am I one of those special clients for her? I feel like one. And how much is just her saying the words I need to hear, not that she doesnt care or doesnt think of me of course, but how much is really.. I dont know what. I guess I just wonder how she feels. How important I am to her. But really, what a good feeling. It feels almost like a safe parent in the wings. I know she's there and she cares, no matter how crazy and hard things are with Ginny or anywhere else.
So yes, I'm going to go into my appt with Ginny tomorrow feeling a little safer, a little more able to talk, I think. The timing for this was amazing.
Posted by Poet on December 21, 2006, at 18:28:47
In reply to oh wow... laurie called, posted by wishingstar on December 20, 2006, at 10:34:59
Hi Wishingstar,
Laurie is a great person for calling you and caring about you. I'm sorry she can't be your T, but she really seems to still be there for you. How did it go with Ginny?
Poeet
Posted by wishingstar on December 22, 2006, at 19:30:26
In reply to Re: oh wow... laurie called » wishingstar, posted by Poet on December 21, 2006, at 18:28:47
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2006, at 21:14:23
In reply to not quite as id hoped.. more soon (nm) » Poet, posted by wishingstar on December 22, 2006, at 19:30:26
Posted by wishingstar on December 23, 2006, at 23:11:18
In reply to Re: oh wow... laurie called » wishingstar, posted by Poet on December 21, 2006, at 18:28:47
Sorry for not getting back sooner.. I left town and am now at my parent's house for the holidays so things have been a little hectic. I''ve also pretty much shut down my emotional, feeling, thinking side for now, until I leave here. But I'd like to tell you what happened with Ginny.
I did tell her. Not quite as I'd hoped, but the message got out. I had trouble bringing it up at the beginning of the session because she was just a whirlwind of questions and it just didnt fit, but finally I worked it in. Unfortunately we only had about 10 minutes left of the session.
First I told her that I feel like I'm being 100% cognitive with her and not being emotional or real at all. She said she knew that's what we'd been doing, but she hesitated to push for emotions too hard because as she said, when people are really fragile it can be too much, and so its often better to stay in the cognitive. I had a major emotional reaction to that - Anne used to tell me I needed to stay in the cognitive all the time, as did my parents growing up. But I let it go because there were other points I wanted to make and there wasnt much time. I told her staying congitive makes me feel worse and she said she can push more for emotions and we can talk more about that. I did mention how the feelings are getting similar to how I felt with Anne. That was all good.
And then the scary part. She also said that it may be that our styles dont match. She said that she doesnt mean than I need to start looking for a new T or that she thinks it wont work, but if that becomes the situation in the next few months, that's okay and we can talk about me going to someone who is a better fit. Internally I just fell apart when she said that. She was trying to be very clear that she wasnt kicking me out or anything, and I hear that... but why did she have to say that? Even the tiniest idea of trying to start over again, being left again, is absolutely devestating. In fact I'm almost in tears writing this. I know it's always an option, I just wish she hadnt said it. Especially right before the break.
She'd also made a passive joke/comment earlier in the session before any of this came up. One of my issues is that I dont have a lot of support or relationships outside therapy and have a hard time seeking them out. She said jokingly that sometimes she thinks it'd help me if I couldnt do therapy anymore (or something like that) so that I couldnt rely on it and would find support elsewhere. I very quickly told her that I think I'd just isolate even more then, and she said she knew and she didnt really mean it. At the time it didnt really bother me, but along with the later comment...
She did hear what I was saying and she seemed very open to it. I told her that I cant really be too direct because it's too scary, but I think just saying that was positive. She said she's open to hearing what I need. That's positive. But truthfully, most of what has gone out the window once I heard the "moving on" words. I feel myself pulling back emotionally from her. I can almost feel the bricks of my walls going up. I know that isnt helpful or even rational, but I dont know how to stop it. Overall I guess the discussion went well, but I just cant stop focusing on that one part. It hurts a lot. If it comes down to it, I'm not starting over. I'm just done. There is absolutely no way I'm starting over again in the next few months.
At the end of the session she asked me if I was okay with the conversation and I said no, which is unusual for me. But of course we were out of time and what could she do? I will talk to her about it when I go back after the new year, but for now, I'm just scared and shut down.
Posted by muffled on December 24, 2006, at 0:00:07
In reply to update, posted by wishingstar on December 23, 2006, at 23:11:18
Awww Whishy. I'm seroquelled and kinda stunned right bout now, but i been thru a simiialr thing. My T wanted me to get other input elsewhere and she totally reassured me she weren't trying to dump me, but all I heard at the time was 'she wants to dump me'.
I think your t was just trying to keep you in the loop and be straight w/you about your therapy and where it might go. I think its a GOOD sign that she NOT trying to totally mollycoddle you, but to be honest bout stuff. I have found lotsa times that I feel like I been SO CLEAR about stuff, and that its so totally obvious, but my T has 'missed' it, or put her own interpretation on it. So I think its important to talk to her bout how you feel bout this stuff. there's always the 'bring your post in' trick,,,
Dam T's how dare they have a life other than us!!!
How dare they not be perfect!!!
My T CAN'T read my mind?????What kinda T can she be then???Not much of a one. Hmmmmmm.
Sigh.
This whole T thing is crazymaking thats for sure.
Manoman this seroquel mixed w/coffe had me bout trippin I'd say .LOL! This typing is teripping me right out! LOL.
But really, sorry its hard, but I have had times where my T has 'failed' me, but she has done good stuff too. I have a good feeling that you and ginny may be able to communicate and work thru this stuff. Either way, she NOT gonna be the kind that just leaves ya hanging.
Take care, my fingers are cramping!LOL
Muffled
Posted by wishingstar on December 24, 2006, at 19:42:12
In reply to Re: update » wishingstar, posted by muffled on December 24, 2006, at 0:00:07
Hi muffled, thanks for the response. I do agree with you that Ginny saying what she did is in many ways a good thing. She is being honest with me and keeping me "in the loop" like you said. She isnt setting me up to be abandoned like Anne did. I really couldnt ask for her to handle it better I guess. I just hate that the discussion came to that. I HATE it. Regardless of what happens I know she'll be as supportive and helpful to me as she can, and I cant imagine her doing anything like what Anne did, but it's still scary. Sometimes I just really, really want to quit. I wonder if she wasnt right about that in some ways, even though she was kidding. Oh well.
I hope you have a very merry christmas. I personally cant WAIT to get back home, but I'm sticking it out for another few days and doing the family thing. My birthday is over the holiday as well so it's like a double hit at once. At least it's out of the way I guess. Happy holidays!
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 27, 2006, at 15:09:46
In reply to Re: update » muffled, posted by wishingstar on December 24, 2006, at 19:42:12
I've been out of the loop doing the parent thing, so sorry I'm late responding.
I'm also sorry the discussion with Ginny was so disturbing. I understand how you feel about it, but I actually had a slightly different take. I think she was giving you permission to do what's best for you (i.e., find a better match if that's what needs to happen in a few months) without worrying about the affect on her. I continue to be impressed with her and hope you will hang in there. Sometimes connections happen instantly, but more often the real connection takes months, if not years, to build.
Hope you're hanging in there okay at your parents. And Happy Birthday, too!
Posted by Honore on December 27, 2006, at 22:02:07
In reply to Re: update, posted by TherapyGirl on December 27, 2006, at 15:09:46
TherapyGirl makes a good point.
Your discussion with Ginny was in the last ten minutes of a very difficult appointment (the last one before your break).
I;ve found in the past that it's easy to misinterpret what a T means in some situations, especially when the fear of rejection or lack of caring is very much in mind.
You can hear things through that filter, which are meant in a very different way.
You were saying that you had some feelings like those with Anne, and perhaps Ginny wanted you to feel that she wouldn't just be like Anne-- that if you didn't feel safe and that you could trust her, she could help you find someone with whom you could make that connection.
She might have meant that if *you* didn't feel a fit with her, you shouldn't have to go through so much turmoil and uncertainty.
I hope so. I know you need a stable, dependable person who's there for you. I"m still hoping that Ginny can be that person.
If you can check out what she meant, maybe you'll find that it wasn't what you heard, but something different.
Honore
This is the end of the thread.
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