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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:00:18
So, I realized something else which is possibly contributing to all my problems.
I think I have failed to do emotional nurturing of myself when I was a kid and continued that as an adult.
Quite possibly because I was terrified and scared and confused about my dad - I think I just tried to cope up logically, instead of ever taking the time to nurture myself emotionally - anyone understands what I mean??
Like talk to myself softly, or say it is ok, or it is not my fault, tell myself I didn't need to feel guilty or take blame for my dad's mistakes. Tell myself I had a right to happiness and friends and love and life instead of surrendering everything to my dad. I kept giving him all power over me - to hurt me, abuse me, to scare me and to terrorize me, and I was extremely afraid of him and just blindly forced myself to do all that he said - instead of trying to really see if it is good for me or now. And I think I have continued that patter somewhat. And I give too much importance to men in my life - and am scared of them.
For a long long time, I would never allow myself to feel anything - only logically I would try to understand my feelings, but really feel and empathize myself about my feelings - no, I never did. I never took responsibility about my own happiness. I kept expecting everyone else around me - most especially my dad.
Now slowly I am realizing that maybe I should take care of myself more emotionally insted of depending on my dad or my exT or my husband to dictate how I feel.
Maybe that is what I need to do.
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:10:22
In reply to Emotional nurturing of ourselves, posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:00:18
Atleast hereafter.. I am going to take care of myself so very well. Instead of expecting my dad or my ex T or my husband to make me happy. I mean, if my dad - in spite of all that abuse he did to me and my mom, can be happy - why should I not?
I think my dad kind of tried to force me to be happy - he would never let me cry or be weak or sentimental or emotional. I think he tried to force it down my throat to be strong and powerful and intelligent and happy.. And I ended up pretending exactly like that, whereas I really was very weak and emotional and scared and didn't even want to be happy because it was so impossible in that circumstance. and I think I developed even an aversion to being happy - because I was forced to pretend like I am happy. Maybe now I need not continue to do that.
But now I am free of my dad, and I am an adult, maybe I can try a little bit to be emotionally happy myself.
Just talking to myself - as usual:-)
Posted by happyflower on May 24, 2005, at 15:20:10
In reply to Emotional nurturing of ourselves, posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:00:18
I think you are on to something! You must take care of yourself because you only truely know how and what you need. If you can find a way to make yourself happy, you won't rely on others to provide it for you. Try a hobby, or take a walk, try to do something for yourself everyday.
My mother in law, 83 yrs old does not know how to be happy. She expects others to make her happy. But the sad truth is that "others" is never enough because she hasn't learned to find happiness in herself. She is so bitter, jeolous, and sad all the time. We don't call her enough, visit her enough, write enough, etc. It is never enough. She has never learned how to make herself happy and content. Others are scared away because she takes and not gives support. I have learned so much on what not to do in my life from her. I know she is an exteem example of this ( you probably are not this bad, in fact no body is as bad as her, lol) But at least you have discovered this early in your life, she never did, and probabaly never will. It is never to late to make the most of your life. You have helped me so much, pinkeye, but I want you to take care of yourself! Do something TODAY to make you feel good! (please)
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:36:31
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves, posted by happyflower on May 24, 2005, at 15:20:10
Thanks HappyFlower. I see what you are saying.
But thankfully I haven't depended too much on anyone so far. I have mostly kept it to myself - maybe except my ex T - I allowed myself to depend on him and expect him to write to me all the time. And maybe I have complained to my parents and husband. But I haven't been very bad to others - I have allowed myself to crumble down and feel extremely sad, but so far I haven't taken it out on others. That much I am happy with myself about. Maybe only my exT I came to depend heavily upon.I do do a lot of things for myself. It is not about doing things. Just the basic attitude of emotionally nurturing myself was missing. I take music classes, read novels and other things, watch almost all the movies in atleast 3 languages, work 8 hours, cook everyday, chat here etc. So that way I am doing lot of things. But just that I didn't tell myself it is ok to be happy and be free of guilt and shame.
Posted by messadivoce on May 24, 2005, at 15:43:14
In reply to Emotional nurturing of ourselves, posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 15:00:18
Great post!! My ex-T and I talked about that A LOT and that is one of the biggest things I learned. To, in some ways, be my own therapist. (He called it "therapizing" yourself). When I started therapy, I was really good at tearing myself down, OR not giving my own feelings any weight at all, and not validating myself. Now, that has made all the difference in how I view myself. I like myself more, because I give myself some credit. How I feel is just how I feel, and no one can tell me I'm wrong about it.
My T also called it "emotional intelligence"--recognizing that you feel a certain way, instead of just reacting by getting angry or depressed.
Pinkeye, I think you and I have some of the same issues concerning men.
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 16:02:11
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves » pinkeye, posted by messadivoce on May 24, 2005, at 15:43:14
Thanks Voce for validating me.
I like what your ex T told you. But it is very hard to do it without reverting to the old pattern of self-blame, guilt, anger and depression. Especially when I have to contradict with the predominant men in my life and have to go against what my father or my husband says. I get all chicken.
I also felt that I have some similarities with you in the past. Both of us still hurting over our ex Ts, having transference, and both of us with controlling fathers. No wonder we have the same issues with men.
Posted by messadivoce on May 24, 2005, at 16:48:48
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 16:02:11
Did you marry a guy like your dad?
I am fortunate that I found a man completely the opposite of mine.
If your husband tries to control you, is it because he is like your dad, or having to do with your culture, or a little of both?
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 17:03:36
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves » pinkeye, posted by messadivoce on May 24, 2005, at 16:48:48
Actually I thought my husband was exactly opposite of my father. But maybe they have some similarities - possibly related to the culture.
My husband believes in everything opposite to my father. And my husband is lot more emotional person compared to my father.
But both of them expect me to be listening to what they say and not go against them. That is probably the similarity. Even though both of them say that I have full freedom, they end up getting enormously agitated and restless if I don't agree to what they think. And maybe it is a cultural thing. In my culture, I think every man believes the same - that women have to standby men's ideas.
And I think lots of reasons why I have conflict is several times, I do know more than my father or my husband - because I read a lot and actively try to understand things and never take extreme stance on anything. I am mostly more reasonable than both of them and try to be very flexible. But they both find it difficult to accept my stance.
I never try to boss my husband or my father. In fact I really try to give in as much respect as possible to both of them and see the good things in them and be affectionate etc. But they are both very adamant in their beliefs, and sometimes both of them are really extremely stupid. And I can't help but point out the mistakes. I am very guarded in my behaviour and don't want to be arrogant and self-righteous, but sometimes it is just impossible to be silent when they are both plain wrong.
Posted by JenStar on May 24, 2005, at 17:52:45
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 17:03:36
Pinkeye,
it's so hard to stand by silently when you know someone else is making a mistake or doing something wrong. I can understand how frustrated you get with your dad & hubby sometimes! I feel very lucky b/c I have a husband with whom I can argue and debate, and I "win" the debates at least 50% of the time! I mean, we don't fight viciously or anything. But if we disagree about something, we can talk it out, or argue it out, and sometimes in the end he agrees to do things my way. And sometimes I agree to do things his way. But it's 50/50.I think the more intelligent and insightful someone is, the more they need to be respected and have their good ideas respected. Pinkeye, you seem to be very smart & well-rounded...it must be so frustrating to have your ideas discounted by the men in your life b/c of a cultural bias!
Is there any chance your husband could or would change, ever? Do you EVER see it getting to the point where you could debate something and change his mind about a big important decision for your family?
Are there other behavioral patterns that might get you more "say" in the relationship - for example, you said you never act bossy. Would acting bossy work sometimes? If you shouted, would that work? I'm not saying that acting bossy and shouting are my ways of getting attention, or that they are even "good" ways. But if you're usually meek and just say "yes,yes" -- would a bit of a shout get their attention? Or would it just make them dismiss you further as hysterical?
Just wondering about the cultural issues.
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on May 24, 2005, at 19:02:40
In reply to Re: Emotional nurturing of ourselves, posted by JenStar on May 24, 2005, at 17:52:45
Actually even for me it is hard to stand against a man - I guess because of the same cultural thing. So there is no point in just blaming my father or my husband. That is the model I knew as well!!!
Actually other than this US/India issue which I fight very badly, I don't make too much of a fuss for anything. Even his religious cultishness, I gave in in the end. But finally he is also turning around. I have found that the best approach that works with both my father and my husband is to say my view very pleasantly without contradicting them too much. Kind of give in and at the same time say what I think. And after some time, (sometimes after a year) they agree and then say the same thing back to me what I said a year back as if they discovered it. And that is fine with me so far.
I insisted so much on getting a Green card. My husband fought with me tooth and nails. But now I got my GC and he also recognizes its value. Similary I fought so much to stay in the US 3 years back with my husband. AT that time he just argued so very much with me. But now he realizes that we have saved much more than we would have ever saved in India. Now also he insists on leaving everything here and going back to India, while I am trying to make him come terms to something more sensible - like work here for 6 months and work in India for 6 months or take up a travelling job where we could visit India frequently. And he is resisting that. I hope he will come to realize it is worth in his own time.
That is what works with my hsuband and my father -not standing up against them, but kind of just giving in and at the same time letting them know what is right. I usually try to show them examples and other families instead of stating it as my view. And thankfully both my fahter and my hsuband are good persons at heart. So eventually they also realize. Even though they give me a hard time and take everything out of me before they realize. But I have made my peace with it.. this is the way things would have been even if I had married any indian.
Actually I also am very concerned about my view points being right many times and my husband's view points being wrong. Because it was taught to me as well that it is not a very feminine thing to be against the man's ideas. And I am afraid if I am being arrogant. So I take extra precaution to be polite and nice. Actually sometimes I end up doing too much of giving in and then end up bursting and becoming arrogant - the same thing I feared in the first place. I guess it is all cultural thing.
> Pinkeye,
> it's so hard to stand by silently when you know someone else is making a mistake or doing something wrong. I can understand how frustrated you get with your dad & hubby sometimes! I feel very lucky b/c I have a husband with whom I can argue and debate, and I "win" the debates at least 50% of the time! I mean, we don't fight viciously or anything. But if we disagree about something, we can talk it out, or argue it out, and sometimes in the end he agrees to do things my way. And sometimes I agree to do things his way. But it's 50/50.
>
> I think the more intelligent and insightful someone is, the more they need to be respected and have their good ideas respected. Pinkeye, you seem to be very smart & well-rounded...it must be so frustrating to have your ideas discounted by the men in your life b/c of a cultural bias!
>
> Is there any chance your husband could or would change, ever? Do you EVER see it getting to the point where you could debate something and change his mind about a big important decision for your family?
>
> Are there other behavioral patterns that might get you more "say" in the relationship - for example, you said you never act bossy. Would acting bossy work sometimes? If you shouted, would that work? I'm not saying that acting bossy and shouting are my ways of getting attention, or that they are even "good" ways. But if you're usually meek and just say "yes,yes" -- would a bit of a shout get their attention? Or would it just make them dismiss you further as hysterical?
>
> Just wondering about the cultural issues.
>
> JenStar
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