![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:38:29
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
There me be an answer soon:
The Guy Who Helped Invent the N95 Mask Thinks Hes Found a Way to Clean and Reuse Them
We should get the results in one or two days.
By Daniel Newhauser
Apr 1 2020, 12:33pmShareTweetSnapWant the best of VICE News straight to your inbox? Sign up here.
Hospitals are scrambling to sterilize and reuse N95 masks, deploying high-tech methods like ultraviolet light and concentrated hydrogen peroxide. But the father of the modern N95 mask thinks a much simpler technique could work: heating them.
Peter Tsai is a material scientist credited with inventing technology that makes material used in N95 masks. He told VICE News that hes researching whether blasting the masks at intense temperatures for short periods would kill the virus without degrading the mask. He hopes to publish the results of his research within days.
We are going to use heat, [158 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degrees Celsius)], for 30 minutes, to see if we can kill COVID-19, he said on Tuesday afternoon. We should get the results in one or two days.
Tsai, a recently retired professor at the University of Tennessee, is one of several researchers at companies or institutions looking at heat as a potential low-tech solution for the shortage of masks plaguing hospitals around the country. Desperate to stretch their personal protective equipment for much longer than its intended single use, nurses and doctors told VICE News theyre using alcohol or even Clorox wipes to try to decontaminate their masks a desperate move that could do more harm than good.
Obviously no one wants to spray down their N95s every day and reuse PPE [personal protective equipment], but until we receive government support and safety of healthcare workers becomes a priority, we have no choice, said a resident at Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. The hospitals simply dont have the supplies.
We should get the results in one or two days.
Before the coronavirus pandemic hit the United States, the FDA and the CDC had advised that N95 masks should not be reused. But to cope with the shortage, federal agencies have changed their recommendations. While some hospitals have the means to use UV light or a newly FDA-approved process using vaporized hydrogen peroxide, other medical centers might not. They most likely only have access to an autoclave or a similar device that can heat items while controlling both the temperature and the humidity.
Its well established that high heat kills viruses. For instance, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS, can be killed if exposed to a temperature of 149 degrees Fahrenheit (65 degrees Celsius) for more than 15 minutes, according to 2014 research conducted by Pasteur Institute, a prominent nonprofit research foundation based in Paris.
Masks have also successfully been sterilized of H1N1 using warm, moist heat, according to studies done in the 2010s by Applied Research Associates, a private research and engineering company.
But this coronavirus strain, SARS-CoV-2, is too new to have a fully vetted and peer-reviewed body of research. The Pasteur Institute is researching whether this new coronavirus can be killed with high heat, but the research wont be finished for another several days.
Jean-Claude Manuguerra, a head researcher at the institute, said SARS-CoV-2 might not react to the same levels of heat in the same way. Killing this virus, compared to previous strains, could take more heat or even a longer amount of exposure.
This is very different between viruses, and some viruses shed much more than others, he said. In the case of SARS-CoV-2, the shedding of the virus is much more than for SARS, which is down in the lung, and more also than MERS,
For his research, Tsai is using numbers coming out of China, where the pandemic first broke out.
Right after the outbreak, a lot of virologists did a lot of experiments, and they found 65 degrees Celsius [149 degrees Fahrenheit] for 30 minutes, that will kill COVID-19, Tsai told VICE News.
The trick is finding the perfect temperature that kills the virus while not destroying the mask. Temperatures over 200 degrees Fahrenheit (100 degrees Celsius) would kill any virus but would just about destroy an N95 mask. But Tsai said European certification requires a mask to be able to withstand 158 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degree Celsius) for up to 24 hours.
The masks are also electrostatically charged. That allows them to suck in and trap airborne particles that might contain viruses, rather than allowing those particles to spread or even enter a persons body. Tsai, who invented that process, said the electrostatic charge can be undone if the mask is exposed to super high temperatures, which would make the mask less effective. But at just the right temperature, heating the masks could be a life-saver.
Scott Mechler, a mechanical engineer at the Massachusetts-based Consolidated Sterilizer Systems, said that tracks with research hes conducting. Although his company isnt working with active viruses, he said they have experimented on the temperatures at which face masks begin to break down.
If you get up to about 100 to 120 degrees Celsius (212 to 248 degrees Fahrenheit), you start to see rapid degradation of the masks, he said. We've been focusing on trying not to damage the mask, and we've been using this number of 65 to 80 Celsius (149 to 176 Fahrenheit) for 30 minutes as kind of our gospel trying to achieve that, while not going over.
But Mechler cautioned that the masks can only be reused three to five times if theyre disinfected in this way."
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:48:10
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 22:10:34
You're right, I think, about the electrostatic charge. In that what cause a mask to be expired are the parts that create the seal and not the filter material itself (unless stored improperly).
Have you thought of going into some sort of research? You like to 'geek out' as we say here. Get very into investigating something :)
Posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 1:04:10
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 7, 2020, at 23:50:24
I didn't realize at first you meant 'morning after pills' (as we call them). God, I'd only thought of women and their abusers being locked up :(
Ours is an election year as well. I expect the current orange to be reelected. If he isn't, he'll bring the country down round him if need be. It's a dangerous time here.
There was mention in the news here about how the covid might fare in your flu season. I don't know how much to worry about that.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 12:48:34
In reply to Re: UVC » alexandra_k, posted by beckett2 on April 8, 2020, at 0:38:29
That was interesting.
I still don't understand the role of electrostatics in manufacture / effectiveness of the masks. But, then, that's supposed to be the 'and then the miracle occurs' trademark step.
I actually didn't think that the reason for the expiry could have to do with the components making up the seal rather than the filtration material itself.
But that makes sense, yeah. I think the Duke people were saying, also, that after UVC treatments the elastic bands holding it to your head showed signs of disintegration / deterioration.
I wonder if the heat process will control for humidity.
And I wonder if dehumidifying the mask without heating it would be effective.
I have been involved in research, yes. But Universities in NZ prefer not to credit students with the work they do. They attempt to force students to labor in significant excess of what they are supposed to labor while making them revise their work different so they can coax it into what they want to be said...
I wrote an MPhil thesis in 2018 and still waiting on the University delivering the only outcome of examination that is in fact based in the reports of external examiners. 'Just keep workign and pay us more fees' wasn't what the examiners said. The University doesn't get to just make up whatever they want... Only, try telling them that. Or... Shut them down. Yeah, there's that.
I wouldn't mind doing basic science research -- but good projects are few and far between. We prefer to 'brand' our kids so they will never have the opportunity to go away and contribute to something worthwhile. Brand them as immoral (for torturing animals for.. Uh... Fun, I suppose. or for falsifying data or by lying about what one did or what was found). Or brand them as stupid. Or (ideally, I suppose): Both.
The people in the positions of power, here, are mostly there to prevent the people they are in charge of doing any work / accomplishing anything. They have their 'birthright' positions and I'm sure there parents are proud. They never would have made it in a meritocracy. Which is why we are so vehemently opposed to that.
It's pretty f*ck*ng frustrating being side-lined because my only role is supposed to be to cheer at the special olympics situation that we all pretend is just our brand of normal in NZ.
While the significant majority of people 'incapacitated' by 'disability' in this country and the people with consceince, with shame, with capacity. Sidelined precisely because they have capacity and the current stars don't like that over-much.
It's pretty f*ck*ng tiresome seeing other people grubbity grub grub grubbing up all the money, all the power, all the titles, while behaving like 3 year olds and refusing to do their job. I'm constantly expected to be the better person while they starve me and freeze me and...
Wonderful country this, mmm, sure.
It's a trade-sanction thing. Taking the tourists away. Our borders got shut down. Good people got sick and tired of trying to do good business when we're too stupid / corrupt to be worth doing business with, at all. The borders got shut down. That's how come it's being contained, here.
Swap you some milk powder for a face mask?
Around the globe... The leaders needed to curb the flow of migration.
Swamped.
It's amazing what a difference it has made to Auckland city now that people aren't artificially being forced /required to congregate. People aren't being forced into the city to have bums on seats in their job from 9-5 to work 'made-up' jobs like processing applications (because the University Council doesn't just pick which ones they like for which degrees quite independently of the processing situation). People aren't being forced to crowd into buses and trains.
There's so much less rubbish around. SO much less angry traffic. It's calmer. More peaceful. People are getting exercise. Enjoying exercise for their mental health. Not having to have so many f*ck*ng pointless meetings with idiots who only call them so they can crap on and on and on and on and on and prevent anybody else from achieving flow or even a state of sufficient mind-numbness to make the working day bearable (somewhat).
It's cute seeing families bicycle together. The kids seem to be loving spending more time with their parents. Parents are more in touch with wha ttheir kids are learning (or not) in teh schools.
I think that will do us good. Parents seeing what terrific little people their kids are. Wanting more for their kids education than what NZ offers. Choosing to invest different once this is over.
Hopefully parts of it won't ever be over.
We don't want to be here again.
I feel bad... I don't know anyone with Coronavirus. I don't know anyone who has died of it. THe human cost to it is unfathomable. Incomprehensible. I simply can't comprehend what is happening in NY or what happened in Mainland China. I don't mean tot make light of the suffering.
I've been more interested in studying than researching. Much research... Gets to be a bit 'on a needs to know basis'. Scientists can be a bit like Ford Assembly Line workers. Doing a little bit that contributes to the overall thing. I am more a big picture kind of person. Instead of doing research (being a line worker in someone else's lab) I'm more interested in that bigger picture understanding.
I've been studying for the USMLE (United states medical lisencing exam) because... There is a developed curriculum there.
Parts of it feel a bit like arbitrary memorisation... But mostly it does seem to be big picture general principle kinds of stuff.
I need to look up / properly remember stuff about disinfection methods and so on.
It is a weird kind of level of information to be learning because it is supposed to be research based 'our best understanding' kind of a thing... But parts of it seem questionable. I don't know.
Anyway... I am trying to think what heat would kill that dehumidifying would not.
Why?
Not sure.
I suspect whatever technique / method we 'discover' will involve a new piece of engineering.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 13:12:20
In reply to Re: UVC » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 12:48:34
It's been funny (strange not haha) to see where the issues are, in our supply chain.
We have no shortage of testing kits!
(We have a shortage in nasal swabs required to collect samples.
Labs have a shortage of reagents).We have no shortage of flu immunisations!
(The way they have been shipped means some practices are inundated with vaccinations that then get to be hoarded in fridges while some other practices don't have anywhere near enough enough).
Still...
I have never heard NZ looking into the situation, before.
Looking into where all the money goes (that goes into the health system).
Looking into the supply situation.Trump asked them 'do your best to procure things for yourselves' because he wanted to see what they would do. Maybe they could draw on good business relationships etc that he didn't have access to. Let the people innovate. Do their thing. Maybe they would do a considerably better job of it than what he would / could do.
And then figure out a system of taxation on the medical supplies for re-distribution for equity. Because it isn't Iowas fault that it doesn't have a medical school or Montanas fault that it doesn't have a medical school... I guess these places rely on resources being shipped west... Redistributed within the US. Supplied within the US (rather than being shipped out to the wealthy elite overseas)...
I know I am going against the current in liking Trump.
It isn't that I *like* him (though he has grown on me, actually). It is that I *admire* the ideology of him.
Obama was more *likeable*.
But then *look at who Obama had to do business with*. Look at the other leaders he was supposed to do business with on the world stage. Was he able to do good, effective business on the world stage? For the good of people around the globe? I am not sure he was particularly effective. Even though he was very likable.
Trump almost intentionally came across as a buffoon. Someone who foreign leaders couldn't / shouldn't take seriously.
But Trump isn't just building a fence between Mexico and the US...
Migration patterns globally...
You have people who are continually running running running running running. For the promise of a better life. Running to NY even. For the American Dream. I'm not sure how much that was a reality for many many many many many people living in NY. Trying to make it in NY.
I do think it is a shame that people are forced to flee.
I came back to NZ because I wanted to study Medicine. So I could put that to good use / practice and help people. And also help medicine develop. As a field. For 'good'. I couldn't study that overseas. I had to come back to NZ to do it (finances prohibiting). But we are very very very very nepotistic as far as medicine is concerned. And very very very focused on choosing the youngest and widest eyed of the kids that make the kids of the doctors look good and feel supported. And we choose to select kids when they are young so we can put them in positions where they... Feel tehy are required to bribe officials or whatever to get their Degree. Feel they are required to commit atrocities or whatever to get any job practicing medicien at all. Then tehy are controllable, you see. By adminstration. Management. Whatever. Will work for low pay. Will be quiet about terrible working conditions. Will be quiet about lack of supplies. Very corrupt system. Culture of fear. Culture of bullying. Not working for the good of patients, very much, at all.
We don't really have a curriculum. It's not really the kind of thing that can be taught to a class? I don't know. I'm not sure what to say abotu it. The problem is a really really large volume of information that you need to cram inside you with spaced repetition spaced repetition spaced repetition. So then you can form inferences and make connections in real time. To form good working hypotheses... Not as the end to it. But as the start to good investigation...
I'm always struck by the simplicity of the most brillant inventions / experiments.
Anyway... Since my return to NZ I've only experienced a succession of 'stay with us and do whatever it is that we do otherwise we will oppose you with every fibre of our being'.
And I don't think I've actually met any good doctors / surgeons yet. So as they get to know me and might possibly want or advocate for me to join them.
Just masses and masses of people who aren't doctors -- and who don't want me to get to be a doctor, etiher.
Even the Medical Admissions COmmittee people. Who / what are they? For the most part people who don't get to practice medicine. People who get to profiteer from 'teaching' (having slaves for as long as they can get away with it and figuring how to have their favorites forced to stay with them indefinately while only promoting other people like them into positions of relative autonomy and power).
Can't function in that system.
So...
What are ya gonna do?
I guess the world over: Shut it down.
It wasn't like it was doing anything, anyways.
Shut it down.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 19:11:26
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 13:12:20
There is some good research and there are some good researchers, don't get me wrong.
The trouble is that in the US the education system is more structured with a curriculum of what you do each year.
Our system isn't structured. They attempt to do this temporal smear thing where you get stuck in a hole with no progression. So people don't progress through PhD's they get stuck in PhDs where the University refuses to sign the student off. Defers their starting date, refuses to forward their work to examiners, allowed the examination period to run over-time, always delivers the verdict that re-enrolment and re-examination are required, drags things out for as long as possible doing it's best to bully the student into becoming a perfectionist and not meeting their deadlines. Then, once you have not met a deadline they can blame you and bully you that it's all your fault that things aren't progressing.
The whole point of examination is that you blind grade the work with academic values in mind. Remove the identifying information about the student. Remove their name (family information, racial information), remove the information about how long the student has been working (have they submitted 'early' or has their supervisor being torturing it different for multiple years?) and... The examiners assess it for quality.
Typically what happens (what always happens with a creative work) is that everybody wants to feel like they pissed on a corner of it. The examiners will make suggestions for changes that they want to see so that they see a part of themself in the work so that they accept the work. Alway. Doesn't matter how long the student has been working...
Pick the very very best books there are and ask the examiners 'what would make it better' and there will always be something. Always.
We developed more in the direction of India. I guess because there is an element of it in the UK. Apparently it is most visible in undergrdaduate UK in Cambridge and Oxford. The kids of certain people. Not merit based. Not the case that you have motivated and bright kids in the tutorial groups, particularly, that you have the kids of certain people and they are expected to mop up the grades. The opportunities. Etc.
NZ got sick of losing it's 'best people' to overseas... So it changed the rules. Didn't objectively grade the kids anymore. Promoted the kids of the leaders who are non-functional away from their leaders. So the 'very best' of the kids are the ones forced back home.
Medical Admissions doesn't want to select people who have the potential to do well on teh USMLE. Doesn't want to lose kids to overseas. It's on the hush hush. It promises to be a way to get to practice medicine that isn't the trajectory of brown-nosing to supervisors and senior officials who are corrupt and who will only sign off after the student has accumulated such a list of wrongdoings and transgressions so as to be unacceptable to anyone overseas. Unless it's their kid, of course, because they secretly would probably like to retire into a better life, overseas, if their doctor kid can give them leverage in...
You really notice the lack of innovation etc at a time like this. You would think that the think-tanks would be found at the Universities. But they sold out. They've got nothing much to contribute to this situation. They were a major part of the problem. Building housing slum after housing slum after housing slum. Over-crowding the kids more than any of the primary or secondary schools were doing. University kids who were never taught to cough into their elbow. INtentionally telling the kids it was a bums on seats for maximum time degree to prepare them for the workforce of... I don't know... Student admissions. Also a bums on seats for maximum time kind of a job...
Things need to change up in NZ, to be sure.
A restructure.
I figure I likely should have been offered a place in Meidcine 2019 and again in 2020. They refuse to process my applicaton properly. They've started falsifying my transcript to alter details on previously conferred Degrees because they don't like the GPA I was awarded on our standard 9 point scale because it was awarded back when objective and independent grading criterion were applied. Rather than the process they do now where they pick the kids first and then make up their grades second in order to make sure the kids they picked are somehow justified on paper as being the chosen ones.
I need a judge to put the university regualtions (outcome of examination to based in reports of examiners) and the actual reports of examiners together. To do a basic multiple choice situation of ourcomes of examination 'options' a-f. To say that there is no 'discretion' of the Dean going 'not a therefore e). To say that the ONLY outcome of examination that the Dean could deliver that is based in the reports of examiners.. The BEST answer... The ONLY answer that is consistent with / based in reports is that the university has 10 weeks of substantive changes. 10 weeks. Then I am to be signed off. By an examiner if the supervisor won't.
But of course NZ Univesrities NEVER listen to overseas examiners when it comes to outcome of examination. NOt even to examiners within NZ. Everyone wants to keep their student for maximum time. The only use they think they have for independent examination is another delay to signing the student off.
But tey violate their own rules and regulations.
And people go 'what is the student a f*ck*ng idiot that it took them 3 years to do 1 year of work. Or 10 years to do 3 years work. What, are they retarded? Did the supervisor write it for them?'
ALl part of the plan of never signing off on anyone with capacity.
It really shines through at times like this. The lack of innovation. The lack of co-ordination.
Places around the world invesetigating how to re-use masks. A very scare resource.
Our researchers are trying to make it seem as though they are being innovative in making hand sanitiser (they back tracked on the marketing once it became apparent that WHO was providing instructions precisely so people could make it at home).
Our researchers are contributing by....
Uh....
Yeah.
To what use the proliferation of cr*ps?
Were any of them secure?
Do we have a satellite?
What's a satellite?
Do we have a weather station?
Can we launch a projectile?
ffs.
It's pretty f*ck*ng tiresome being forced to watch from the sidelines... Watch the most incompetent team in teh f*ck*ng world, feels like.
Oh, I"m sorry. We are doing so much better than Fiji or Tonga! Yay us!! What a winning situation to be in!! Yay us!!
Posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 19:55:41
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 13:12:20
I should clarify what I meant about special olympics.
I don't mean it is like watching people swim who have lost a leg.
I don't mean it is like watching people run who have lost an arm.
At high levels athletes competing in special olympics train just as long and hard as other olympic athletes. It's super interesting with respect to learning about real differences and capabilities (e.g., whether having less blood circulating reduces endurance or whether there simply isn't an intrinsic disadvantage depending on the development of prostheses etc etc).
I mean it is more like the situation where you are at primary school and the school decides to hold an olympic event 'for fun' and where the winning criterion and starting conditions are intentionally designed to be the great leveller such that genuine expertise in the event (as traditionally understood) and whatever games they have constructed don't really map. In other words: Intentionally designed so that everyone gets a medal and getting medals bears no relation to natural abiltiy nor hard work. The introduction of a random element so 'everybody gets to have a go' at being a winner.
Or the situation where the winners are determined in advance.
I remember a friend when I was very very young who had poor frustation tolerance when things did not go her way. We had lots of party games and her mother rigged EVERYTHING (all the games) so she won them all. Because it was her birthday. It made the day not fun for anyone else but her (because why would you wnat to play a game that was rigged?)
She didn't seem to care how good of a time her guests were having. That they likely wouldn't want to play with her...
Tis a short term strategy to be sure.
That what what I meant about special olympics.
I think it is great that people with Downs syndrome etc are competing, too. There may be somethng motivational that is different with respect to training intensity. But that's part of things, too.
My problem with NZ is that it typically seems that the only people who get to play sports at all (the cognitive or mental equivalents) are all these 'special categories' of people. Only we call them normal. And if you have a problem of it: WHy you must have a mental disorder! (and when the mentally disordered people call you that then that's a reason to exclude you).
It's such a f*ck*ng farce.
Posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 0:05:41
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 8, 2020, at 13:12:20
>>Trump asked them 'do your best to procure things for yourselves' because he wanted to see what they would do. Maybe they could draw on good business relationships etc that he didn't have access to. Let the people innovate. Do their thing. Maybe they would do a considerably better job of it than what he would / could do.
>>And then figure out a system of taxation on the medical supplies for re-distribution for equity. Because it isn't Iowas fault that it doesn't have a medical school or Montanas fault that it doesn't have a medical school... I guess these places rely on resources being shipped west... Redistributed within the US. Supplied within the US (rather than being shipped out to the wealthy elite overseas)...
If the man does anything good, it's purely accidental.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 0:56:11
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 0:05:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF8vCwsHp1g
> If the man does anything good, it's purely accidental.Obama appeared so good everyone else appeared bad by comparison. If you criticised Ombama then you appeared racist. Leaders of other nations did not look good next to Obama.
Leaders of other nations are looking good next to Trump. He is making other people look good. He is bringing out the best in the people around him.
Posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 13:19:54
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 0:56:11
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF8vCwsHp1g
>
>
> > If the man does anything good, it's purely accidental.
>
> Obama appeared so good everyone else appeared bad by comparison. If you criticised Ombama then you appeared racist. Leaders of other nations did not look good next to Obama.
>
> Leaders of other nations are looking good next to Trump. He is making other people look good. He is bringing out the best in the people around him.
>
>
>
>I was rude to you, Alex. I apologize. Obviously I despise the man and have nothing good to say.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 16:48:23
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 13:19:54
> I was rude to you, Alex.
Were you? I didn't notice / think you were being rude. I just thought we were having a conversation.
> Obviously I despise the man and have nothing good to say.
Oh. I didn't know that you despised him. Again, I just thought we were having a conversation.
I am not trying to change your mind or whatever. I really didn't like him to start with, either.
But then I got to thinking...
Baltimore seems to be a bit like 'Yeah, ''The Wire''... Yeah, corruption... That's us. That's who we are. That's what it's like here'. Apparently they are low on people in the city of Baltimore. Wanted immigrants or something. People to go 'Yeah, I'd love to go live in a place like that and, uh, live my life amongst all that in all that'. I don't know who they were attracting... Who would go 'yeah, I'd love to live in one of those slums'. Or 'yeah, I'd love to go work in their police force'.
I was worried that our Prime Minster basically goes on the world stage 'we are a nationa of child abusers'. And then... Uh... Permission to carry on. Yeah. Come on over international students! Edutourism is where it's at in New Zealand!
Did you watch any of ''The Apprentice''?
I only watched the first season and then part of the second. So I don't know what kind of a sh*t show it may have distintegrated / deteriorated into.
But what I saw of it I thought that he had a good way of doing business. Trusted advisors who seemed sensible. Competent. Rational. Who considered things. An interest in fairness. A genuine attempt to make good decisions for the right reasons.
I think of what our boardroom situation is in NZ. A lot of 'just because I said'. A lot of squabbling. A lot of in-fighting. People not even trying to make good or fair or just decisions. People accepting of the corrupt systems they are part of.
I remember when people used to visit NZ from America and give talks (few are far between, why the hell would people come here for?) If they start out with the usual thing of showing a little of where they are from and so on then the response here was... Jealousy. Hatred. I think that's fair to say.Now when people visit from America and give talks (few and far between). Now they can start out by making snarky comments against Trump. Apologising on his behalf or something. New Zealanders like that. There is a bonding in hating Trump.
People like to feel they have a common enemy, I guess.
The animal thing.
The virus.
Brings the different countries together.
I wasn't feeling emotional about any of this... Mostly I feel I am approaching it from rational understanding.
Most people (not to you in particular) seem to think that evils will win and so they join the winning side. Falsify that data. Commit whatever atrocity. Are bullied into it. If you can't beat them then join them. I don't know how much it's resigned defeat vs how much it is that people want to do those things anyway so spin up a ratinonale / a defence. How many people wanted to exterminate other people. Happily signed up for the Nazis. Happily followed orders. It gave them permission. Social sanction.
I don't see much of anyone trying to do much of anything properly, in NZ.
I got a letter today from the Ombudsman saying that he wasn't going to investigate the issues of corruption that I brought before him because I appear to lack faith in the Ombudsman. Because I questioned whether the Ombudsman was following process. Because the Ombudsman took a good year to refuse to say whether the University followed their rules and regulations to say it 'wasn't unreasonable' for them to do whatever they want.
Also because I questioned the indepenence of the Ombudsman (since he didn't do the job he was paid to do and look into the regulations that I brought before him and put those togeher with the actions of teh Univesrity).So now I get a letter saying that teh Ombudsman refuses to do his job.
But wait....
Who can do what about that?
What law is there to make the Ombudsman do his job?
I let parliament know that they probably should cease and desist with paying him.
He's perventing a competent person from doing his job.
Oh yeah -- we cant' see any competent people in NZ
We wouldn't let the competent ones even go to Univesrsity!!!! Surely.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 16:55:39
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 16:48:23
You should see the stunning display of legal talent in the kids picked to work for the Human Rights Commission.
It's just a f*ck*ng joke.
They set about blacking out most of the laws this country had.
Our law books... It looks like some people went through it with a black crayon and just scribbled out most of our laws.
The Human Rights Commissions's function is to turn things against a person who attempts to bring a case before them.
Firstly, their website refuses to allow you to submit a case to them.
Secondly, they won't get back to you when you email them (there will be different email addresses around and they won't respond).
Thirdly, you go along to their physical building and wait for several hours in the hallway.
Lots of employees walking past... All these people paid to work in teh Office of the Human Rights Commission big fancy building in the Commerce District in the City...Then someone comes out 'can I help you' to listen... To say that they will get back to you. In a couple days, sure they will.
So I few days later you have to go in to see them again...
So they say that in order for you to bring a case to the Human Rights Commission for Investigation you need to prove that there was unlawful discrimination against someone for their race, religion, disability etc.
So you have to prove that that occured. So go away and compile proof that that occured.
There's nobody home.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:02:04
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 16:55:39
All these Government Departments.
There's nobody home.
Their primary functions are not met.
New Zealand doesnt' have Human RIghts violations and abuses becuase peple in NZ don't know what Human Rights are.
There is no corruption in NZ because nobody knows what corruption is. The person employed to look into corruption seems unwilling / unable to understand what it is. He elects to hire people unwilling / unable to work to deadline. No corruption is perceived on his watch likely because he is most corrupt of all.
There is no accountability.
The policians say 'the Univesrities are required to be free of Policial influence so it's not our problem that the Universities give all the jobs to our kids so that they can keep on being free from political influence'.
And the Universities give back to them... A think tank.
Indeed.
World leading.
The rest of the Countries in teh world just want to send their precious and loved children here...
Especially if they aren't very bright / aren't very ethical.
I mean, you gotta put them somewhere, I suppose.
Better than using nepotism to advance their standing back home.
Don't sh*t in your nest. Etc.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:09:44
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:02:04
I am thinking of all the doctors, particularly, that we hire from overseas who have been struck off various registers for sexually abusing their patients and gross incompetence and negligence and so on.
Their applications get processed, strangely enough. They get job offers, strangely enough. They get put in positions of power in our hospitals, strangely enough.
I can only suppose that the reason why their applications are processed (whereas other competent and registered applicants do not get their applications processed) is becuase of some kind of bribery.
Either they are working for no pay (so forgoing their salary) or, something like that. Something along those lines. ANd the DHB has leverage over them that they can fire them on a whim whenever they want. They can say 'oh, we looked into that person a bit more and discoveredt that actually they printed up their Medical Degree on their home printer and they never trained at all' or 'oh, we discovered that their medical lisence was revoked' or 'oh we discovered that they are supposed to be in home detention in a different country' or whatever... Whatever...
In exchange for...
A doctor who is never going to report that the hospital is violating health and safety regualtions. who is never going to complain to an accrediting authority. maybe a doctor who is never going to prescribe any medication (likely doesn't have a number of whatever in order to do that anyway).
__
Apparently many tons of medical supplies are coming here, from China.
They are being watched under armed guard in China until they leave the country.Then what will happen to them?
I wonder if they will microchip various things to see where they end up.
They should.
Evil people pretend to be stupid.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:30:25
In reply to Re: UVC, posted by beckett2 on April 9, 2020, at 13:19:54
i'm sorry that i rant about stuff.
i'm sorry if you don't feel that i hear you / respect you.
i do respect you, a lot.
thanks for responding to me.
i am having a very frustrating life where the corruption and ineptitude of others prevents me from having a life worth living.
while they grubby grub grub grubbity grub grub up all the stuff for themselves and their inept children. f*ck*ng yay.
it has been good to see the US prosecute people who attempt to by-pass / hijack university admissions.
i don't know that any other nation on the entire planet is interested in the integrity of their education system.
but i only speak english.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 18:47:58
In reply to Re: beckett » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:30:25
I do appreciate that other people are having a hard time of things, also.
And that life for many people in the US is, actually, similarly sh*tty.
I did not know until very recently that Iowa and Montana were as small (population wise) as they were and that those states did not have Medical Schools. I was just reading that Boise State was sending out admissions offers to in state students who had applied to out of state colleges only and thought 'Boise State... I've heard of that... I wonder if they have a Medical School...'
Just little pockets of collaborativity and the swarms of psychopaths attempting to chew through everything in their wake like locusts or possums...
NY will develop herd immunity first in the US.
Then the waves of doctors carrying disease will spread forth to 'help'...
I understand some of the locals thinking that a federal lock down mandate would be infringing on their freedoms. What has the federal government done for them lately? And what business is it of the federal government when the federal government would really rather prefer to have things policed at the state level instead of needing to send in federal officers and so on...
I see that it was harder to lock-down Iowa than you might have thought. To prevent rioting on the streets etc.
It wouldn't be possible without the internet infrastructure.
I never read newspapers online before because I was aware that you get a 'this is the version that was approved for you' and 'this is the version that was approved for someone else'.
This is the 'gamma baby' newspaper that's approved for you so you can read about recepies and fitness routines.
This is the information that you need to know.
THe public sector has gone away. All those government facilities.. The parks.. The public venues. All the things that taxpayer dollars is supposed to be spent on. Maintaining the roads. The public spaces.
The government has stopped with all of that expenditure. All of those costs.
I understand teh hospitals in NY are overrun with Coronavirus.
But the hosptials in a bunch of other places are not.
But they have been locked down. The elective surgeries have been stopped.
All of the money and none of the expenditure.
I don't like not having access to physical newspapers.
I guess if you don't havea facebook account so the world can figure your proper place then you are a non-person.
I mean we don't believe in basic human rights or basic levels of decency or...
If you can get away with something then it's your duty to do that -- right?
Moral education doesn't work, etiher.
Emotions.
Empathy.
How much does our minister of health get paid to not do his job?
Why is it that NZ goes 'okay, yeah, sure, half our country should be living off welfare payments while that f'ing idiot gets hundreds of thousands of dollarsd per year to do whatever he wants with immunity and no accountability whatsoever'.
People *want* to come here and take their chances.
Well....
Our borders have been locked down. So. So there.
I see the Chinese Government is restricting who we are allowed to do business with.
Sure. China has learned that it cant' trust us to do good business.
It can't trust us to look after it's people.
We don't even look after our own people.
The world won't look after China's workers or value China's outputs if China doesn't do these things.
I mean... What any self-respecting country / state would be trying to do right now is to protect itself so it doesn't need to become swamped by the locusts of healthcare workers swooping in to 'help'.
Border control.
'we dont need any help thanks we've got it covered'.
It was easy to shut NZ down mostly because we don't do much of anything anyways.
Business as usual for surprisingly most of us.
Outside tourism / hospitality.
But then it's about refocusing those sectors back to looking after our own people instead of exploiting foreigners.
Posted by beckett2 on April 11, 2020, at 15:27:59
In reply to Re: beckett » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2020, at 17:30:25
> i'm sorry that i rant about stuff.
>
> i'm sorry if you don't feel that i hear you / respect you.
>
> i do respect you, a lot.
>
> thanks for responding to me.
>
> i am having a very frustrating life where the corruption and ineptitude of others prevents me from having a life worth living.
>
> while they grubby grub grub grubbity grub grub up all the stuff for themselves and their inept children. f*ck*ng yay.
>
> it has been good to see the US prosecute people who attempt to by-pass / hijack university admissions.
>
> i don't know that any other nation on the entire planet is interested in the integrity of their education system.
>
> but i only speak english.Aww, no worries Alex. You're fine. The times elicit rants.
Many do not realize how quickly the US is deteriorating. The supply chain (masks and PPE) is broken through the hostile neglect. This is true, although I may not have the contours right.
I would love to live somewhere like Australia or NZ. I would even forsake the sun and live in Finland for some peace and quiet. But my health isn't good and I'm old and not a desirable émigré.
I know you and sigi have valid issues with your countries. I hope you feel heard too.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 17:24:47
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by beckett2 on April 11, 2020, at 15:27:59
> Aww, no worries Alex. You're fine. The times elicit rants.
Thanks, Beckett. I couldn't sense your mood / tone. I was worried about you.
> Many do not realize how quickly the US is deteriorating.
It is hard to comprehend. It is hard for me to comprehend life in such a big city in the first place. Even harder for me to comprehend the deserted streets and the bodies piling up.
I am trying to keep up with the news in other States, too. Because it is important to recognise the diversity that is there, I think. Diversity in strategy for dealing with this. I guess I am just trying to make sense of things by looking at the big picture as much as I am able to do.
> The supply chain (masks and PPE) is broken through the hostile neglect. This is true, although I may not have the contours right.
I am not sure, either.
I have been reading about how nurses mostly (but Doctors also) have been instructed not to talk to media. Have been stood down for complaining about lack of supplies.
And I will admit it makes me wonder how much hospital chains might be experimenting with different protocols on PPE use. And I will admit it makes me wonder how many hospitals are not rationing PPE.
There was this thing in the NZ Newspapers about how, apparently, 3 of our wealthy businessmen brought up a few tons of medical supplies just before the lockdown.
And we were told that a bunch fo medical supplies were sold back to China to help them deal with their crisis! And I suppose, maybe they were sold back to China to help them deal with their crisis...
Or maybe they were sold back to rich people in China so they could mark them up and sell them on for profits. Or maybe they were sold back to rich people in NZ so they could mark them up and sell them on for profits.
Or maybe they were sold back to rich people in NZ so they could distribute them as they see fit (making sure they have excess for their needs first, of course).
Apparently they have been talking with our government and are now being hailed as wealthy benefactors of our health system!
Not clear to me whether the supplies are to go to the public health system or to be hoarded in the private health system.
Apparently the DHBs here did lock down elective surgeries in the public hospitals in preparation for the CoronaVirus epidemic...
But a lot of the electives were contracted out to the private hospitals. So many of the surgeons who were working partly public and partly private were withdrawn from the public sector to work in the private sector only.
I bet a bunch of medical supplies went with them.
And some of the stupid-er surgeries were cancelled outright. The keyhole joint surgeries that do no better than placebo. Some of the joint replacement surgeries where our stage of development of orthopedics is (I think) something along the lines of practicing on people on their way out...
I saw this photograph of medical doctors and dentists in pakistan street rioting / protesting that they weren't going to become accredited to practice this year because of the disruptions. ANd one of them wearing a masks to cover his mouth (but not his nose). And then what I know about medical selections (and completions)... And likely the very very real situation in many hospitals of people not wearing the PPE gear appropriately even if they do have access to it (because it is hot and uncomfortable). So...
And I remember reading that some of the Boston HOspitals had stringent PPE using guidelines...
And they were going to keep on with something that seemed to be 'business as usual' insofar as they were concerned...
And that's the thing, really. The vast differences in the baseline of that.
And the vast numbers of healthcare workers who weren't doing the basic things that they were supposed to do BEFORE this epidemic. Weren't washing their hands approproiately. Now they cry for face masks -- but they don't even wash their hands appropriately. This is what happens with the in-breeding nepotism we-picked-the-best-suck-up situation.
I expect the real situation is one of very very much inequality. Some have shortages while others are doing just fine.
Sharing. Playing nice.
Be Nice to Iowa, Minessota.
They have been saying for a while that the greatest threat to peace and security across the globe is inequality.
> I would love to live somewhere like Australia or NZ. I would even forsake the sun and live in Finland for some peace and quiet.
I wish you could take 6 months or 12 months and visit and see parts of it and see where you think you might like to settle down. And then spend some time. And then, after a year or so, decide where you would rather be.
There would be things about the US that you would likely miss. Seasons. Holidays. The timing of things makes sense with the seasons. TV premiere dates. Ball games. Art gallieries and museums etc. But it depends on your access to / utilisation of those things, I guess.
> But my health isn't good and I'm old and not a desirable émigré.
I think the only desirable is... The one who will shuck (the right word?) Crabs in Baltimore to contribute to the low-income population and associated problems. They seem to be missing the demise of that.
The one who will stock the supermarket shelves and pay into our schooling system with the promise of being able to work their way up and being able to work their way to permanent residency and citizenship only to be expected to stock the supermarket shelves indefinately...
> I know you and sigi have valid issues with your countries. I hope you feel heard too.Thanks.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 18:16:44
In reply to Re: beckett » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 17:24:47
I don't understand why anyone would choose to move to NZ from the US.
I mean, I get that people want to travel and see the world and experience different things.
But I don't understand why anyone would choose to stay in NZ permanently from the US.
The education system, the health system, the legal system is all under-developed, here. None of the basic things that are supposed to happen happen. The government is the major employer and jobs are not publically advertised much of the time and they are given to people from whos who rather than merit.
I know there is a similar state of things for a lot of people in the US. With respect to what they feel is the reality of their lives in the US. They may as well not live in teh US for all the access they have to these things...
But how much further away are we down here, in NZ?
Here things become temporally smeared. THe timelines are intentinoally obscured and then exploited. The seasons. The progression. Here we are always 6 months behind. But then that slips into 1 year actually. Which is in academic land 1 year and 1 / 2. But then of course it is too late hahahahaha got ya! While the kids of the wealthy elite were picked out in the first 6 months (medical admissions for the following year basically decided by the end of the first semester).
I guess it's about money and relative position.
So... There are plenty of small towns in California. Costal. Like 'Home and Away' kinds of village towns in Australia -- right?
But the cost of purchasing a house in the Bay Area... Surely it is cheaper to get that same climate and costal in Australia...
Or New Zealand...
Particularly NZ...
But then you have to look more closely at the house... The lack of central heating. The plywood / particle board constructions...
The lack of hospitals and schools... Or... Things you would want to call hospitals and schools. Where the people use hand sanitiser and kids aren't over-crowded at 30+ to a class...
When you start to look past the superficial things... The things they encourage you to look at most with the marketing campaign... I don't think anyone would voluntarily choose to live here.
I guess it is about the money.
This idea of 'if you can make it in NY you can make it anywhere' isn't trying to say that talented people who are valued in NY would be valued anywhere (rather than being stoned to death by mean spirited jealousy of others back home). It's saying that if you have the money to purchase a high quality apartment in NY then you can use that money to live comfortably anywehre. For a time. Maybe not in LA, I don't know.
lolz.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 18:28:09
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 18:16:44
And that was supposed to be the ideal / the dream.
That people who were talented and prepared to work hard...
Could go on something like a holy pilgramige to the promised land...The artists, particularly.
To make it on broadway.
Or to become a movie star.This idea / ideal / ideology of going to a city and living with like-minded individuals.
Being amongst talented hardworking people.
People who valued those things, too, who were working towards those things, too.
And making a living. Getting bits of work. Living amongst that.But the reality wasn't working out so well for a lot of people.
You start to get 'fan-boys' who are 'me too' about it. So people go there not because they are either talented or hardworking -- but because they want to hang out with those people. Because they want to surround themselves with those people. And then you start to get swamped with wanna-be's who are more interested in hijacking things (promising false opportunities etc for the attention instead of contributing to the development of the thing)...
And other States are developing / are wanting to be developing too. Other states want to have theatre and make films etc...
So the place to be isn't the place to be anymore. It's become swamped by people who were never really with the program.
So you have to look a bit harder and a bit out of the way to actually find the thing that you were seeking in the first place. The thing that the ideology was for or about... That doesn't match the reality of those places, anymore. For the significant majority of people.
I don't know what they are going to do about Medicine / Medical Admissions.
I guess the match is the best they can do...
Even though... That's the national system.
There are places aside from the match.
I hate NZ for stealing my life and not allowing me to contribute.
For treating me like a stupid child. People younger than me treat me as a stupid child.
I'm not age-ist. I know many young people are capable / talented.
I don't think much of my age-cohort in this country, either.
My age-cohort fled this country.
But I wanted to Medicine and as a NZ citizen with the educational opportunities that were available to me... I need for the public system here to do it's f*ck*ng job for once and process the application... Let's try that again, let's try processing the application without bribes or private advantage or nepotism or other forms of corruption... And then you send the thesis out to overseas... No, you don't just get to give degrees to your kids of the kids who make your kids look better... Proces the qualitification. No, process the qualification *properly*.
ffs.
Couldn't be going backwards any f*ck*ng faster.
Posted by beckett2 on April 12, 2020, at 2:45:54
In reply to Re: beckett » beckett2, posted by alexandra_k on April 11, 2020, at 17:24:47
> I think the only desirable is... The one who will shuck (the right word?) Crabs in Baltimore to contribute to the low-income population and associated problems. They seem to be missing the demise of that.
This is too funny! And true.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:37:08
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by beckett2 on April 12, 2020, at 2:45:54
> > I think the only desirable is... The one who will shuck (the right word?) Crabs in Baltimore to contribute to the low-income population and associated problems. They seem to be missing the demise of that.
> This is too funny! And true.I spent most of today watching Khan Academy AP American History videos.
Learning about the early arrival in Virginia and about the Pilgrims.
I did not know about the 13 States.
I did not know about the difference in ideology between the Virginian and Pilgrim Settlements...
I understand it is one way of telling the story...
But the difference between young men going off to acquire riches quickly. The idea of bonded labor or apprenticeship or indentured servitute where yo would likely die of Malaria or mosquito related illness before your contract ended. I did not know that Virginia was swampy, generally, or that there were mosquitos or malerial illnesses in the US.
Huh.
There was much that I liked about Chapel Hill. It was idylic, in a lot of ways... But there was something... Unsavory... Or... Unsettling... To me in seeing hispanic people working roadworks or food service only and seeing black people on the bus only hanging their heads and being quick to open doors and jump out of the way and give me a seat. I felt like I never wanted to feel that those things were normal or acceptable or okay...
I just can't believe that NZ University system is so very very very corrupt that they refuse to base outcomes of examination on reports of external examiners. Refuse to give people their Degrees once the requirements for them are met. Hand out Degrees to people when they have not met the requirements for the completion. I still just can't believe we are that f*ck*ng corrupt and our system of accredtiation are worse than useless.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:42:52
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:37:08
And the worst of it is that there are very very clear regulations in black and white.
Regulations on when applications to enrol are due by.
Regulations on how much work a qualification is supposed to be or to represent (regulations saying they must report the points values for invoicing purposes 3 ways including the number of weeks).
Just the most basic refusal to do any of the things that they are supposed to do.
And so...
What are you going to do about it?
WEll... THe University is too corrupt to do the things they are supposed to do. They didn't do any of those things. They refused to do any of the things they were supposed to do.
The Ombudsman just goes about saying he doesn't see a problem. Or saying he does see a problem. And then oh well whatever nothign is done.
The Government says the above people are independent and it is not their place to intervene.
England doesn't acknowledge documentation I send as evidence of fradulent billings, attempt to extort additional fees. Violation of terms of contract.
What am I supposed to do??
Stabby stabby in their sleep??
I mean they keep saying this is a developed nation -- but I don't see it.
They don't seem willing and / or able to parse their own regulations... And they are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each year...
It makes no sense.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:52:48
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:42:52
Some of them are taking 25 per cent pay decreases -- temporarily over the next 6 months.
So as not to be seen to be profiteering from the lock-down situation where so very many New ZEalanders have lost their job and been forced into applying for welfare.
It was a voluntary pay cut thing. For the highest level administrators. People earning more than 200,000 dollars per year. For one of their jobs. I am learning that many of them have many different jobs and they are paid for each of those jobs. So you get paid to be the minister of this. And then you get paid to be the director of that. THen you get paid to be on this commission. ANd then... In this manner... You earn more than enough to put 12 kids through full fee paying US private school education while getting a fully fee funded scholarship ride through medicine for your kids while the Univesrity pays them, I'm sure.
Others haven't even managed to voluntarily take the pay cut.
Instead, they say they are donating it to a charity. Likely the charity they set up for themself as teh primary beneficiary.
Likely the 'homless people' charity they have where they warehouse people in substandard living conditions with communal bathroom and kitchen only and no food storage space and so on... Likely the 'aged care' charity they have where they only care for dementia patients with no family so noone checks up on them -- they are really seeking to help out the most disadvantaged. So caring like that. So... Financially lucrative.
The stats they are giving us don't add up.
Boo hoo our exports to China and Australia are down. But exports overall are up, apparently. Imports overall are also up, apparently. Boo poor us.
I think Australia and China both produce food and don't need our exports and we don't export anything else. We are likely supplying food to countries who are having food shortages. I would imagine. And importing more medical supplies.
One of the hospitals has started collecting up N95 masks and goggles and face shields in recycling bins and staff are (rightly) terrified that they are planning on rinsing them off and redistributing them. The Director General of Health says he sees or knows of no shortages of PPE.
He also sees or knows of no shortages of immunisations while staff on the ground say they are being abused by patients demanding their immunisations while they simply don't have immunisations to give them.
So much of it is just b*llsh*t.
An attempt to create confusion and distration from where it is that the money does go. Who gets picked for the training places. Who gets the degrees. Who gets the jobs. Who gets the money. Who gets the houses. Who gets deliveries of what products and who misses out.
These people who think they are so very very very fuckign clever for keeping as many people they can in as appalling conditions as they can. Somehow being head of the very very worst and most underproducitvie of the rubbish counts as a trophy for them.
F*ck*ng idiots. Ruinign things for us all.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:58:11
In reply to Re: beckett, posted by alexandra_k on April 16, 2020, at 4:52:48
Helen Clarke goes 'so much for the sustainable development goals' with all the people starving in India.
What she doesn't seem to comprehend is that it's our having decided 'so much for the sustainable development goals' that got us into this f*ck*ng mess.
We've been going:
'We won't'
'We can't'
'Those don't apply to us'To the UN and WHO recommendations on health since forever.
Healthy housing rules don't apply to us.
We aren't cold.
We aren't sick.
The rules don't apply to us.
We are making too much money off of keeping people in inhumane and substandard condions.
Constantly constantly constantly on the lookout for people doing worse than us so we can point at them and go 'see see they are worse than us! Because tehy are worse than us you have to go after them and leave us alone! Because they are worse than us we can do whatever we like with immunity haha!'Who put these people in charge?
Nobody would have consented to that.
No speak English.
Too supid. No understand-y.
This is the end of the thread.
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