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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fires on August 20, 2004, at 18:44:24
Words I used (fires):
>> your ... extremely offensive and rhetorical questions
>
> I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me.
>
> verbal abuse
>Dr. Bob wrote:
"Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down."OK. Re-worded:
I feel your words were extremely offensive.
I feel that I've never attacked anyone the way I feel you just attacked me.
I feel that your words were verbally abusive.
Thanks.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 23:54:31
In reply to being civil, posted by fires on August 20, 2004, at 18:44:24
A step in the right direction. But a safeer way is not to use the word 'you' in the sentence at all. That is the part that can sound accusitory.
I felt hurt (offended, attacked, etc) when I read that.
This leaves open the possibility that how it is read isn't how it's intended.
It's a bit of (see thread above) cognitive gymnastics, it never hurts to err on the side of friendliness.
Sorry to keep butting in...
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 11:48:09
In reply to being civil, posted by fires on August 20, 2004, at 18:44:24
> Words I used (fires):
>
>
> >> your ... extremely offensive and rhetorical questions
> >
> > I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me.
> >
> > verbal abuse
> >
>
> Dr. Bob wrote:
> "Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down."
>
> OK. Re-worded:
>
> I feel your words were extremely offensive.
>
> I feel that I've never attacked anyone the way I feel you just attacked me.
>
> I feel that your words were verbally abusive.
>
> Thanks.I think that you have a little more work to do on rewording those statements to make them true I-statements. There is an excellent link in the FAQ, under the topic of civility. To quote the FAQ:
"It's fine to give others feedback as long as its constructive. It tends to be more constructive if you put things in terms of what the other person might do better rather than what they did "wrong". And it tends to be more conducive to harmony to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, for example, to use an I-statement like "I feel put down by what you said" instead of a you-statement like "you're so arrogant". But don't just word the latter as the former, as in "I feel Dr. Bob has gone overboard". :-)"
Saying, "I feel your words were verbally abusive" is no different than saying, "Your words were verbally abusive."
There is a hyper-link highlighted in the part of the text that reads "don't just word the latter as the former", with some really fine examples given by Dinah.
Lar
Posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 11:58:52
In reply to Re: being civil » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 11:48:09
> > Words I used (fires):
> >
> >
> > >> your ... extremely offensive and rhetorical questions
> > >
> > > I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me.
> > >
> > > verbal abuse
> > >
> >
> > Dr. Bob wrote:
> > "Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down."
> >
> > OK. Re-worded:
> >
> > I feel your words were extremely offensive.
> >
> > I feel that I've never attacked anyone the way I feel you just attacked me.
> >
> > I feel that your words were verbally abusive.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> I think that you have a little more work to do on rewording those statements to make them true I-statements. There is an excellent link in the FAQ, under the topic of civility. To quote the FAQ:
>
> "It's fine to give others feedback as long as its constructive. It tends to be more constructive if you put things in terms of what the other person might do better rather than what they did "wrong". And it tends to be more conducive to harmony to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, for example, to use an I-statement like "I feel put down by what you said" instead of a you-statement like "you're so arrogant". But don't just word the latter as the former, as in "I feel Dr. Bob has gone overboard". :-)"
>
> Saying, "I feel your words were verbally abusive" is no different than saying, "Your words were verbally abusive."
>
> There is a hyper-link highlighted in the part of the text that reads "don't just word the latter as the former", with some really fine examples given by Dinah.
>
> LarI think I have better things to do than re-learn everything I was taught in English classes in high school and college. I'm on the verge of leaving this particular Babble group. It seems that some are so sensitive, that "civil" wording seems nearly impossible, yet when I felt attacked (the poster even predicted she would be banned!), she was not banned.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 13:20:15
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 11:58:52
> I think I have better things to do than re-learn everything I was taught in English classes in high school and college.
There's an irony here, but I shan't trouble you with tales from my own history.
>I'm on the verge of leaving this particular Babble group.
It's not a one-way door. You can always return later, if you wish.
>It seems that some are so sensitive, that "civil" wording seems nearly impossible,
Mmmm....your own choice of words is not influenced by others. Respecting the sensitivity of others is called empathy, eh?
> yet when I felt attacked (the poster even predicted she would be banned!), she was not banned.
That's an issue of long-standing concern, ironically enough. This is not meant to be a negative aspersion to Bob, but because he is the ultimate arbiter, we do not have an objective determination of civility, we have Bobjectivity.
Lar
Posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 13:49:53
In reply to Re: being civil » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 13:20:15
Posted by tabitha on August 21, 2004, at 15:51:58
In reply to Re: being civil » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 13:20:15
Here's a hint about how to make sure your "I feel" statement is not really just a disguised you-statement. If you can replace the "I feel" with "I think", or totally drop the "I feel" and it still makes sense, then it's not really a feeling statement. Here's an example:
I feel your post was offensive.
- still makes sense as:
I think your post was offensive.
- or just:
Your post was offensive.On the other had, if you say:
I feel hurt reading your post.
- then it's a real feeling statement. Wouldn't make sense as:
I think hurt reading your post.
- or:
Hurt reading your post.See the difference?
Posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 16:17:40
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by tabitha on August 21, 2004, at 15:51:58
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 16:51:55
In reply to I'm no longer posting here (nm), posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 16:17:40
....but lurking instead? Cool.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 18:43:05
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by tabitha on August 21, 2004, at 15:51:58
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 18:43:41
In reply to Re: being civil » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 21, 2004, at 13:20:15
Posted by AuntieMel on August 21, 2004, at 19:35:46
In reply to I'm no longer posting here (nm), posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 16:17:40
He's learned all this by experience;)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2004, at 2:13:37
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by fires on August 21, 2004, at 11:58:52
> It seems that some are so sensitive, that "civil" wording seems nearly impossible
Yes, some people can be very sensitive, and being civil can be very difficult.
> yet when I felt attacked (the poster even predicted she would be banned!), she was not banned.
1. Two wrongs don't make a right.
2. Maybe she was overly sensitive about how she would be perceived? :-)Bob
Posted by fires on August 22, 2004, at 12:50:23
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2004, at 2:13:37
> > It seems that some are so sensitive, that "civil" wording seems nearly impossible
>
> Yes, some people can be very sensitive, and being civil can be very difficult.
>
> > yet when I felt attacked (the poster even predicted she would be banned!), she was not banned.
>
> 1. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> 2. Maybe she was overly sensitive about how she would be perceived? :-)
>
> Bob1)You said: Two wrongs don't make a right. Do 3 wrongs?
2)Also: And maybe she wasn't. :)
Over and out.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 22, 2004, at 19:23:06
In reply to Re: being civil » Dr. Bob, posted by fires on August 22, 2004, at 12:50:23
Maybe you will see that things are starting to even out. But promise to read the whole thread. K?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040812/msgs/379944.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2004, at 16:28:50
In reply to Re: being civil » Dr. Bob, posted by fires on August 22, 2004, at 12:50:23
> 1)You said: Two wrongs don't make a right. Do 3 wrongs?
No number does, why do you ask? If you'd prefer, you can email me instead of posting...
> 2)Also: And maybe she wasn't. :)
True enough! :-)
Bob
Posted by JenStar on August 23, 2004, at 16:40:04
In reply to Re: being civil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2004, at 16:28:50
hi guys,
I certainly don't mind being talked about -- but if you ever want to know what I am or was thinking, please feel free to ask. I'll do my best to explain. :)Cheers,
JenStar
Posted by Atticus on August 23, 2004, at 17:42:41
In reply to Bobjectivity...heh heheh heh hehe (nm) » Larry Hoover, posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2004, at 18:43:41
Encountering the term "Bobjectivity" really made my day, and took the sting out of earning my first PBC a couple days ago. Humor is a great way to handle a situation where you're essentially powerless to change the status quo. Thanks, Larry. ;) Atticus
Posted by fires on August 29, 2004, at 20:52:17
In reply to it's OK to ask me! » Dr. Bob, posted by JenStar on August 23, 2004, at 16:40:04
> hi guys,
> I certainly don't mind being talked about -- but if you ever want to know what I am or was thinking, please feel free to ask. I'll do my best to explain. :)
>
> Cheers,
> JenStarOK. What were you thinking? You know when/what I'm referring to.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 30, 2004, at 11:17:02
In reply to Re: it's OK to ask me! » JenStar, posted by fires on August 29, 2004, at 20:52:17
Sorry to butt in again, but look at
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040812/msgs/379944.htmlWelcome back fires.
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:30:43
In reply to Re: it's OK to ask me! » JenStar, posted by fires on August 29, 2004, at 20:52:17
Well, right now I'm thinking that I'd like to shake hands (so to speak! Shake emails?) and set the past aside and start over with you.
I wrote a long post about how I was feeling and I wrote it while I was still worked up. Right now my irritation has faded and I hope yours has too!
Do you want to start over? Be friends? I would!
Let me know.
JenStar
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:12:43
In reply to Re: it's OK to ask me! » fires, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 10:30:43
It described how you were feeling and what you were thinking in a rational way. It also concluded with the same thing you just expressed here - a desire to get along.
Worked up? Sure, but not irrational.
This is the end of the thread.
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