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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on December 26, 2003, at 13:46:11
Why is it that it only takes one day with my family -- a celebratory day, no less -- to have me weeping and certain that death is the only reasonable answer? (No, not planning anything, just having a really, really bad day.)
Now, I'm a reasonably intelligent, reasonably insightful person. I've spent [mumble] years around these people, so their behavior is not surprising to me. The patterns are there, I see them, I know what they mean, I know a lot about what's inside each of them that motivates what comes out of them. Why do I continue to play my part, the part they've chosen for me, trained me for, that leaves me crying alone at home the next day?
And can anyone out there tell me how to communicate to my husband that he *doesn't* need to chime in his agreement with them???
As an aside, my Monthly Feminine Cycle has changed radically the past couple of months -- since starting new meds. Has anyone else experienced changes like this from meds, or is this, indeed, the start of another kind of change in my life?
Thanks for taking the time to read this. And thanks, in advance, for your concern and support.
Posted by Racer on December 26, 2003, at 17:21:01
In reply to So, why is it..., posted by Racer on December 26, 2003, at 13:46:11
Be especially careful out there today, there should be some pigs flying around any time now. I just told my husband (who is at work today, so I do feel bad about the timing) that I need him to be supportive of me, not to tell me that the attacks from my family are correct. I also told my mother that some of the things The Family criticizes me about are things within my marriage and are not Topics Appropriate For Criticism by anyone who is not listed on the marriage certificate.
So, I'm having a totally awful day, crying uncontrollably, in a major crisis, but at least I can say that I did two things that are (at least in theory) beneficial for my mental health. I've also done three loads of laundry, vacuumed the living room, and cleaned one of the bathrooms.
Oh, yeah, and I've played about six games of Freecell on the computer.
The day is not a total loss, huh?
Posted by judy1 on December 26, 2003, at 18:59:46
In reply to So, why is it..., posted by Racer on December 26, 2003, at 13:46:11
I think we just regress in the presence of family so that our defenses are down and they instinctively know every trigger to push. I do the same thing, fall into my role despite my best intentions not to. I honestly don't know how to prevent it either, so I'm no help to you. I do know that if my husband ever sided against me I would be furious, simply because he doesn't understand the dynamics present.
I don't know your age, but yes meds have messed with my cycles, and so has stress- could that be true in your case?
I'm sorry you had such a tough visit, maybe you can plan something different next year- or would you feel too guilty? I don't anymore.
take care of yourself- judy
Posted by shar on December 26, 2003, at 21:34:23
In reply to Re: So, why is it... » Racer, posted by judy1 on December 26, 2003, at 18:59:46
Gee, Racer, it seems to me that talking to your husband and family about what is and isn't appropriate to discuss is VERY out of role. And, good for you! If you say the important things, standing up for yourself like you did, I think that is the way to eventually tone down (or maybe even eliminate) the seeming hold those events have on you. Given that you are, at the same time, dealing with a mood disorder, you were terrific!
I, too, still get into the role stuff with family; it depends a lot on what kind of distractions are present. The fewer distractions, the more I regress into learned behavior. I cried and cried over the holidays, especially yesterday, so I can relate. I also experienced my usual feelings of despair that bring to the forefront my suicidal ideation. I just wonder, why can't it all be done with?
Oh, well. I think you did great. Especially if you cleaned house! I just vegged out in front of TV. Well, I did go thru some stacks of papers that had piled up, but I'm pretty much a lump these days.
Hang in there.
Shar
Posted by Racer on December 27, 2003, at 0:42:23
In reply to Re: So, why is it...Racer, posted by shar on December 26, 2003, at 21:34:23
I don't know why I react the way I do, except that it's training. The way to train anyone or any horse or any dog is to make it easier to go what you're asking for, and induce discomfort at alternate behavior. Thus, one of my horses gets a sting with the whip when he's naughty, and praise and singing and pets when he's doing what I'm asking for. Same with me, except that it seems both more complicated and more "breaking" than "training" -- you know, the cowboy style "I'll let him know who's boss around here."
The lesson I learned, as a child, was pretty simple: Don't stand up for yourself, it'll only escalate matters, and I'll be hurt more than if I take it to begin with. My mother's boyfriend was emotionally abuse of me, and of my mother. He was one of those people who could sense everyone's insecurities and use them for his attacks. He'd say things like, "You know, Racer's Mother, she could be a pretty girl if you had that nose fixed..." I spent years agonizing over my nose, and still hear jokes from some people about it: "Your nose doesn't have character -- it has a full cast", that sort of thing. (Boyfriend is dead, that last was either my ex-bf making a light joke about something to help me get over worrying about it, or from my cousin, just being cruel. They were both there at the dinner when that one first came up.) Eventually, I learned not to take in Mother's Boyfriend's jibes and survive them. Since he was obviously aiming directly at me, trying to make me feel bad, that didn't suit his needs, so the abuse escalated from emotional to sexual. I was 11, he was a grown man. Guess what lesson I learned? Don't try to stand up for yourself, because that will make things worse than they already are. Mind you, it still escalates, but there's a chance he'll get bored by kicking me down if I never try to get up again.
That's only part of it, of course, because since my mother did nothing to defend me, it left me a target for everyone else. I'm still the target with no defense. When I try to stand my ground, it still escalates. And because I don't fight back, various family members consider me an acceptable target for criticism and mockery and cruelty.
I've practiced, when I was feeling stronger, telling some of them that there are limits, that it is not appropriate to to continue to treat me as if I'm incapable of making my own choices.
You wanna know what really, really sucks? I've done a lot that's worthy of respect and gratitude. I was the only member of the family welcome to my favorite Great Aunt. She treated me with restraint and respect. The one time she started to go into her rant about my grandmother, and how she was terrible to my grandfather, I told her that that was not a topic I was willing to discuss with her. That her sister, with whom she had sibling style issues, was my grandmother, and the time I'd had was precious to me both at the time and as cherished memories; that the difference in relationship made a differnt view, and I didn't think there was any benefit to disagreeing over it when we had the better option of enjoying our own time together. She apologized and never brought it up again.
When that Great Aunt died, her estranged children descended upon her house, to settle her affairs, and when I got there I found all of them ready to explode for their own reasons. I -- I alone, without outside assistance -- smoothed things over so that they could work together to clear out the house, ship everything off, and leave everyone unmaimed. I did that UNTIL my mother and aunt showed up, two women said Great Aunt had refused to see for the last years of her life, after which I was the target for their disrespect and made miserable and embarassed.
The hell of it is that they're people I love. They treat me badly, they insult me to my face, they tell me what I "need to do" without regard to my own experiences or skills or aptitudes, and they make no effort to know me. See, they know what's good for me, and they *have* to tell me about it "for my own good" The other day, my aunt and I were talking and she started a topic that is a real hot button in my marriage: my husband's car. Now, my husband's car was purchased about four months before he was laid off. It has developed a $3000 oil leak, and has not been driven in about a year. He drives my car, leaving me with the choice of chaffeuring him around, or being trapped at home. I do not like him driving my car. Personally, I think, when he was laid off, he should have sold it, and bought something easier to maintain. (My car, for instance, does not have enough parts to develope a $3000 oil leak...) Well, my aunt started in on the stupidity of buying a car he couldn't afford to maintain. Um, when he bought it, he could afford it -- can you say, "Laid Off"? Then she started in on the idea that he get the thing fixed and sell it. I told her that she was preaching to the choir, but it was his decision, and none of her business. That's when she started the Magic Mantra: "It's for your own good, you have to hear this, so I'm going to say it anyway..."
There are different types of respect. There is the respect which is earned by great and very good people, people like Jimmy Carter, Jane Goodall, Fritz Mondale (hey, he told the truth during his presidential campaign). Then there is the simple respect freely given to strangers, acquaintances; a politeness which ALL people deserve until they prove themselves to be undeserving. That's the respect that keeps most of us from walking into someone's house and telling them that the space is wasted, the bathroom should be over there, the stove should be gas rather than electric, and the carpetting is the wrong color. Oh, yeah, and you need to vacuum more often, if once a week is not enouth, vacuum three or four times a week.
What would you do if someone walked into your home and began in that vein?
Well, she's my aunt. I do love her. I look forward with mixed feelings to her visits, but I do look forward to them with a certain amount of enthusiasm, because I love her.
OK, amateurs, tell me what's wrong with me? Or am I just a triumph of early training?
(Oh, yeah, and this is just another Racer Rant. I am grateful to all here for reading, and for your well wishes. I do know you wish me well, as I wish you well. That's why I come back here. Thank you all.)
Posted by noa on December 27, 2003, at 10:46:30
In reply to Thank you (Rant Enclosed) » shar, posted by Racer on December 27, 2003, at 0:42:23
Remember the Appollo space mission days--when they would put the astronauts into isolation for a few days after they landed, in case they had picked up some evil microbe or toxin on the moon?
Well, it's kind of like that with visiting toxic relatives. You need to detox. I hope the ranting is helping with the detox process.
You are right about the training. It is second nature for everyone to go into their roles. Think about it--this training started very early and was practiced all the time. And the wounds that make you vulnerable go very deep and old, and I think when they get poked, it is hard to summon up your grown-up armour to protect yourself.
You were great, though! It may have felt lousy, like they were still cutting right to the core of your tender spots, but you showed courage and gumption and did say some things to stand up for yourself.
I agree that things in your marriage should not be up for group discussion at family events.
Rant away, Racer! And spend the next few days doing things to further detox.
BTW--I am so incredibly impressed with all the stuff you got done despite the toxic visit! If you run out of cleaning, can you come over and help me with mine? : )
Posted by shar on December 27, 2003, at 13:30:38
In reply to Thank you (Rant Enclosed) » shar, posted by Racer on December 27, 2003, at 0:42:23
Keep 'em comin' !!!
Shar
This is the end of the thread.
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