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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 10:55:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 9:27:40
Oh yeah, another thing. Has anyone else found their tolerance too alcohol severely reduced??? Since i've come off the remeron, if i have say 3 or 4 beers i get serious headaches in the morning?? where before this was no problem.. i wander if this is also the withdrawal, and the brain readjusting, and when alcohol is put in the equation as well, it doesn't go together well??!
Keep Smilin'!!
Cashy72
Posted by musky on June 17, 2006, at 12:19:55
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 9:27:40
Hey cashy:
thanks for your post.. sounds like you are hangin in.. yu give me hope as you seem to be a little ahead of me in the being off stage.. 6 weeks vs my 3 weeks.
VERY interesting what you say about the waking up early.. me too!! I have been waking around 5am as well.. normally I would sleep until 9 or 10 and still be groggy, etc. Now I seem to wake up easier in the morning. with clearer head, I guess this is the only postitive thing so far with bein off. But then like you my anxiety is worse in the morning , then tapers off, then up and down during the day. And whats even more unbelievable is that I TOO get the muscle tension in the back of my head, especially when I try to concentrate on something,, or sit and look at a piece of paper, or work ,etc, or look at a picture .. anything that requires me to hold still and concentrate.. I find if I dont adjust my body or move then I feel this overwhelming Tension building up.. behind my neck, base of skull, mostley and some upper back, then I feel dizzy or tippy.. its strange but I have had this since Being on the Remeron and now its a bit better OFF the remeron but still present. At least there is someone out there that has experienced this like me.. ITS wierd as you say and I NEVER had this until I was first on the amytriptylene(for 3months), then the REmeron.. When I was at the max dose of Remeron it was REALLY Bad for agitation... I couldnt even stand still at the check outs at the store or standing still anywhere without having to release this tension.. It was horrible and embarrassing, to say the least.anyways keep hanging in and yes I hope one day we can all forget this nonsense and be happy again..
Musky
> Hey Guy's, glad too hear from you all. It's no fun getting off this wicked stuff is it?! You just gotta kick marching on. I'm 6 weeks into being Remeron free, and still have a short nights sleep, usually awake 4.30 - 5 am. Plus mornings are still crappy, much more anxiety in the morning, and also whenever im trying too concentrate on something i get a kinda tension building up in my head, and muscles, it's weird, but it goes and like you all have said, there are good days, and some bad.
> Im just trying too keep on the road too being off this stuff, and keeping busy, with healthy food and stuff.
> Its so tough isn't it, but as each week goes by hopefully things will get easier.....
> Hang in there...... We will all pull through this, and it's just a chapter in our lives which with the help of friends, family, and forums like this one, encouraging eachother, we can close the book on this part of our lives...
> Keep going.....
> CASHY72.
Posted by musky on June 17, 2006, at 12:24:46
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 10:55:23
> I think so cashy... I know that you are not supposed to take ANY alcohol when on the REmeron and i think its still early for you body to be back to normal chemistry...
I havent drank in 3yrs cause of what it said about alcohol and Remeron.. I dont know if you did while on it.. I was way too scared.. I really miss to have a relaxing beer or two.. like the old days.. thats when I felt good..
For me,, im giving it at LEAST 5-6months before i touch a drinkk.. I hope i dont get the headaches like you and i hope that this isnt a permanent effect from the Remeron and that I cant even enjoy a beer again...Ttyl
Musky
Oh yeah, another thing. Has anyone else found their tolerance too alcohol severely reduced??? Since i've come off the remeron, if i have say 3 or 4 beers i get serious headaches in the morning?? where before this was no problem.. i wander if this is also the withdrawal, and the brain readjusting, and when alcohol is put in the equation as well, it doesn't go together well??!
> Keep Smilin'!!
> Cashy72
>
Posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 17, 2006, at 12:24:46
Wow, I slept better last night but feel worse today. Usually, if I sleep well I feel well but not today. I had up and down anxiety(heavy chest)and felt spacy. Things became quite uncomfortable and I thought I might be going crazy. Head is a little better though and not really depressed at all. Things took a downturn after I cut the lawn. I was very tired after being outside. My body really doesn't want to work out and I fear too much is "charging" my body when it is trying to normalize.
It is very strange feeling. Some things lessen and then other increase. Each day is different. Man, this Thursday will be 4 weeks. I hope things even out some soon. I have no idea if what I am experiencing is normal or not. I bet most doctors would say it is not W/D and just my old symptoms. I don't thing that would be correct but I am quickly losing confidence. Depersonalization stuff is wicked. Anybody else get that?
regards
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 18, 2006, at 23:59:54
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 9:27:40
Cashy,
So glad to hear that you are doing okay off. I'm so afraid-I read what Johnny and Musky are going through and I don't know if I can deal with it again.
I took remeron for sleep, it's not really helping anymore anyway. I'm down to 1/4 15 mg pill and didn't get to sleep until close to 4 am. I can't imagine feeling worse-adding nausea and headaches back in. :(
You give me hope. Thank you for posting.
Posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:00:43
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
>Dont worry,, i get the up and down stuff too. Its the body trying to adjust... trust it.. and of course the docs will tell you its your old symptoms... thats ALL THEY KNOW!!! They arent inside you so they cant possibly know that its NOT withdrawl... and the fact that you are on some other med arent you? if i recall from an earlier post. .. that might be stretching stuff out too.
What do you mean by depersonilization?? I think I know and maybe I am experencing it too... but tell me more what it is you experience..
I just get foggy brain, then cant concentrate. Today i had wierd moments of overwhelming feelings , couldnt think at all for a moment, then normal mood, then dizzy, anxious etc, then normal then kinda scared, then normal.. boy this went on all day.. so to me I just keep saying its the W/D... its gotta be as I never had this before meds!!!!!
its good you are sleeping better, it will even out. I have been sleeping not too bad, just wake up so early now??? 5am .. its so wierd.. so i just relax a bit in bed and then just go to work a little earlier... I'm sure its just the body again readjusting sleep patterns.. R
Remember.. REmeron knocks out 3 different pathways in the brain unlike your other a/d.. So it takes time(ive done alot of research)..also consulted with pharmacologist where I work.
I'll be glad when the anxiety passes.. which again Im sure it would be even worse without the acupuncture...
Are you going to acupuncture??
as far as exercise,, It has helped get rid of this excess stress(its temp, but at least its helping too).
Just keep fighting... dont loose confidence and keep telling yourself you want to be Remeron free..
keep posting..
1 month coming up for us... we can do thisMusky
Wow, I slept better last night but feel worse today. Usually, if I sleep well I feel well but not today. I had up and down anxiety(heavy chest)and felt spacy. Things became quite uncomfortable and I thought I might be going crazy. Head is a little better though and not really depressed at all. Things took a downturn after I cut the lawn. I was very tired after being outside. My body really doesn't want to work out and I fear too much is "charging" my body when it is trying to normalize.
>
> It is very strange feeling. Some things lessen and then other increase. Each day is different. Man, this Thursday will be 4 weeks. I hope things even out some soon. I have no idea if what I am experiencing is normal or not. I bet most doctors would say it is not W/D and just my old symptoms. I don't thing that would be correct but I am quickly losing confidence. Depersonalization stuff is wicked. Anybody else get that?
>
> regards
>
> johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:04:42
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 18, 2006, at 23:59:54
>Jenico:
If you just took the Remeron for sleep thats NOT the reason to take it.. I mean thats a little extreme for dr. to rx that.. THey tried to tellme that it would help my sleep too,, but it didnt help one bit... I mean I had nightmares all the time and just felt groggy sleep,,, not normal rested relaxed sleep...
I hope you really get off this time... you can do it ..just keep the faith..
look at cashy and jules.. they are doing ok it seems.. and Im still hanging in...its been hard, but I just go day at a time..
Only talk to those who are FOR u coming off not to those who support Remeron...Good luck
MuskyCashy,
>
> So glad to hear that you are doing okay off. I'm so afraid-I read what Johnny and Musky are going through and I don't know if I can deal with it again.
>
> I took remeron for sleep, it's not really helping anymore anyway. I'm down to 1/4 15 mg pill and didn't get to sleep until close to 4 am. I can't imagine feeling worse-adding nausea and headaches back in. :(
>
> You give me hope. Thank you for posting.
Posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
I just thought I would let you gys know that IM starting a high dose B complex tommorrow.. B vitamins are especially good for nerves and mood..
Im going to try it.. couldnt hurt.. and i use to take them but at a lower dose.. For this time im trying 100mg of the complex instead of the usual 50mg.. its still safe and B vitamins are water soluble therefore not toxic..I forgot to mention that Ive been taking the Omega 3 joy (health food store).. for mood , and maybe this is helping too.. its just fish oils.. research has shown that it supports mood...successful for depressed states.
Also another important point... I read an article written by a pharmacist on the effects of certain meds on vitamins... And ANTIDEPRESSANTS were HIGH on the list for destroying vitamins in the body,,, alongside birthcontrol pills(they knock out folic acid in womeN).. So be aware.. this is why IM now going to give these BComplex a good try...Musky
Posted by cashy72 on June 19, 2006, at 5:07:23
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
Hey Musky, thats interesting about the vit supplements, and fish oil. I think im going too give that a try, as you say, it certainly won't do any harm, so any positive effect is good news..
Thanks.
Cashy72
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:33:47
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 19, 2006, at 1:12:18
hi cashy & musky,
there are lots of good threads on the Alternative board about both vitamin B and fish oil...poss. side effects and the specific kinds of supplements to take. i've always had a good experience with vitamin B complex for PMS but i think sometimes it can make me irritable too, which i thought was just me until i read those boards.
take care
jules
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:34:30
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by cashy72 on June 17, 2006, at 10:55:23
Posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 18, 2006, at 21:12:24
it can be hard to know whether the mood dips are w/d or the depression. it's been almost 4 months since my last dose and the last couple weeks i've been struggling with some anxiety and low mood. it doesnt feel like my old depression, exactly, so i'm pretty sure it's not, but it's discouraging to not be "better" all the time. i also wake up early in the morning at least a few times a week...
i do feel though that slowly but surely, overall, i'm stabilizing and clearing the medication from my system.
i had that reaction to physical activity when i was depressed. it's really rough to deal with. i wonder if something like aquatic therapy would be comforting to you. or just hanging out in a pool once in a while, not pushing yourself but spending time there.
i hope things get better for you soon. i'm keeping you in my thoughts!
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 19, 2006, at 17:01:31
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
Thank you for the uplifting thoughts Jules. I had such anxiety this whole morning but I found a website on relaxation and timed my breathing. I took like 23 breathes and it should have been around 8! The site talked about CO2 and the feelings it can cause so I used the breathing technique and it helped quiet me some. I don't feel too bad right now as the chest stuff has abated some. What a rough day yesterday and this morning.
I just want to sleep normally. I will try to fight through. Hope things are well with you and everyone else gets some relief. This drug is very bad on the body.
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 19, 2006, at 15:40:02
>
About the exercise thing...Im told and also find that you WANT to increase the heart rate etc.. it gets those endorphins going and if you break a sweat will help get rid of the meds too.. and it kick starts the bodys own neurotransmitters .. I always feel better after I exercise.. I find it really lowers my stress levels and they stay low for a few hours aftewards.. I am confused when you say you dont want to rev up johnny... but then you know how you feel. again swimming is good as well ,,ive been adding in a swim once per week to my exercise mix....
Today more tension headaches..still waking up at stupid 4am but at least I get to sleep...and sleep not too bad before the 4am waking..
still not right in the mood... quite down most of the day... just kept going.. and then I picked up tonight.. was at a lecture and it really kept me distracted and I felt better after..
again distraction of the mind however you do it really helps with this w/d stuff.
I just wish these tension /headaches would go away.. and the restlessness still. LIke i say its been better with acupuncuncture and all the other stuff ive been doing ,but it its not all gone by a long shot... I guess we just have to wait it out. I will see how these B vitamins go.. I will give it afew weeks before judging..
Take care allmusky
it can be hard to know whether the mood dips are w/d or the depression. it's been almost 4 months since my last dose and the last couple weeks i've been struggling with some anxiety and low mood. it doesnt feel like my old depression, exactly, so i'm pretty sure it's not, but it's discouraging to not be "better" all the time. i also wake up early in the morning at least a few times a week...
>
> i do feel though that slowly but surely, overall, i'm stabilizing and clearing the medication from my system.
>
> i had that reaction to physical activity when i was depressed. it's really rough to deal with. i wonder if something like aquatic therapy would be comforting to you. or just hanging out in a pool once in a while, not pushing yourself but spending time there.
>
> i hope things get better for you soon. i'm keeping you in my thoughts!
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:45:33
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
Hi Musky,
For me, exercise has been very difficult the last few years. Actually, it has made me feel worse, messed up my sleep, etc. I have tried every type of excerise and different times during the day. My doctor thinks the meds might have been affecting me somehow. That is why I need to stabilize before embarking on a new regime. I believe that for me, charging the body when it is trying to adjust is not wise. I am trying to right the ship chemically speaking so I don't want lactic acid, and what else affecting me until my body is able to handle it better. If it makes you feel good then by all means do it.
As far as depersonalization it is when I feel kind of outside my body. I just don't feel "me". It happens when I am spacey the most. I almost get this feeling like I am not connected. It is very scary and I think it is kind of related to anxiety too.
I slept better last night. I just curled up on the floor and my wife woke me up later. I slept somewhat better until 5 or so. Sunday and Monday were bad though
Hope everyone is better.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:47:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 20, 2006, at 0:57:05
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 0:38:25
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » musky, posted by johnnyj on June 20, 2006, at 8:45:33
>Hello johnnyj:
Glad to hear you slept better last night.. one day at a time..
yes this depersonilization you talk about sounds like what I have been getting... I would always get it while tapering and now again .. some days I do , other days I dont... its wierd.. today I just felt numb and down.. and not really connected.. like you say.. Ive also heard it can be from anxiety or w/d or the anxiety caused by meds and w/d of themm.. All i know is that I NEVER had these feeling before meds or ever in my life until this whole episode with Remeron!!!!!Tood bad you get revved up on exercise in a negative way.. I had such bad headaches today and after I exercised it was better. later tonight i had them again..tension headaches then finally took an Advil.. seems to have subsided.. I know this is tensiion and I didnt have a problem before..Im SURE its the w/d , etc.. cause I never had tensiion headaches before like this.
I just keep trying to take one day at a time..
This is not fun stuff thats happening to us.
Damn those drugs anyways!!!keep posting.. we need support all of us.
one good thing.. I lost another pound since stopping the Remeron... yeah! so total i have lost 20lbs from the original 45 i gained on this crap//.. so another 25 to go about... Again.. NEVER had a wt problem before.. and this wt gain was more like puffy, fat, bloated type unhealthy gross wt gain... Im feeling better since ive at least lost the 20lbs of it..Musky
Musky,
>
> For me, exercise has been very difficult the last few years. Actually, it has made me feel worse, messed up my sleep, etc. I have tried every type of excerise and different times during the day. My doctor thinks the meds might have been affecting me somehow. That is why I need to stabilize before embarking on a new regime. I believe that for me, charging the body when it is trying to adjust is not wise. I am trying to right the ship chemically speaking so I don't want lactic acid, and what else affecting me until my body is able to handle it better. If it makes you feel good then by all means do it.
>
> As far as depersonalization it is when I feel kind of outside my body. I just don't feel "me". It happens when I am spacey the most. I almost get this feeling like I am not connected. It is very scary and I think it is kind of related to anxiety too.
>
> I slept better last night. I just curled up on the floor and my wife woke me up later. I slept somewhat better until 5 or so. Sunday and Monday were bad though
>
> Hope everyone is better.
>
> johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 0:38:25
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jules354, posted by johnnyj on June 19, 2006, at 17:01:31
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:41:01
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
Hello Jules:
I don't want to jinx myself but I have been using the breathing, 4 in and 4 out, and my chest stuff has abated quite a lot. I actually slept close to 7 hours the past two nights. It really freaks me out to think I can feel sooo bad for a week or more and then in the span of a few days feel somewhat better.
It really is up and down. I am very, very cautiously optimistic that I may see some up days. I do wake up early still but I am laying down on the floor about 10:30 or so and then making it into bed later. I woke up about 5:45 or so and am awake and there is no way to get back to sleep but that is ok. I am just hoping some day the alarm will wake me up. If I can get 6.5 to 7 hours I am happy. Still feel kind of weird at times and my stomach is still tense but some progress has been made. Man, that ten days or so prior to that was hell. And doctors will say there is no W/D!! What a lie.
Have you had any depersonalization stuff? It is better but I was really kind of freaked out the last week. Thank you for you posts! Keep plugging away.
johnnyj
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that when I went to 3.75 mg I had a very hard 3 weeks. I almost thinkg the startle effect and some other symptoms were worse than when I went totally off. But, there are other symptoms which I have written about since going off. Nausea was one of the worst and feeling really down.
try some breathing excercise like I posted above to relax you. I don't know if alternating days is the best for this med. What does the doc say? Remember for tapering there is no prize for doing it quick ya know? Good luck
johnnyj
Posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » jeninco, posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 13:44:49
Johnny,
Doctor says it should be completely out of my system by 2 weeks, so she's NO help at all. I barely felt the witdrawal until around that time last time.
I was okay going to 3.75; the only symptoms I felt were that it no longer knocked me out for sleep which was the reason I was put on it in the first place.
But I definitely feel nauseau at 1.875. And it seems to be coming on faster than before. My doctor would say it was all in my head. :(
Glad to hear you are having better days.
Posted by johnnyj on June 21, 2006, at 15:33:36
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 14:17:10
Believe me, it is not in your head. It is real withdrawal. I was told the same thing and my doc looked at me like I was making it up. I will take my experiences and others over med pushing docs anyday.
I went from 3.75 to zero and I was mistaken that is what you have done. Others have done the 1.85 or 2 mg too. I found the 7.5 to 3.75 to be very real in withdrawal and I know a doc would not agree. Again, I felt the same when I withdrew from my benzo. When I went to zero it was the worst, then the best.
hang in there
johnnyj
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:18:24
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico..., posted by jeninco on June 21, 2006, at 10:29:14
>
Hello:If you dont mind I would suggest to stay on this dose for at least 2-3months.. and then Stop. if you skip days yu just mix the biochemistry up I think.. Remeron has a very long half life..and then the titer in your blood will be up and down. You want to be consistently lowering the dose at a linear rate I would think.. then it shoud be easier... That's my suggestion.. but of course its up to you.
the other posts ive read and people skipped doses ,they had trouble.. its like your brain will have an"x" amount of drug one day, then if you skip one day it will decrease to another amount"y" , then if you take a pill the next day you have now gone back to "x" dose and so on.. Then the body CANNOT adjust.... it justs yo's yo's.Good luck
Musky
I'm down to 1/8 of a pill (I think that's right, 1/2 of a 1/4?) and am feeling pretty crappy. I am taking dramamine to help me rest and to take away the nauseau. I'm not sure as to how long I will stay at this dosage; as others have said in some ways I feel like I'm just prolonging withdrawal. After this I'm going to every other day, every third day, etc.
Posted by musky on June 21, 2006, at 23:21:30
In reply to Re: Hey Jules , johnny, cashy, jenico... » johnnyj, posted by jules354 on June 21, 2006, at 11:18:35
> Hey jules .. I thought you were doing not bad?? wondering why you are getting anxiety again??? after 4months off?? I wonder cause my past experience before Remeron was with amytriptylene and I noticed that after 3months off , thats when it was kinda a delayed w/d.. and I was worse then , then at the first weeks off.. strange... but then i think thats when the body has no drug at all and needs to rely now totally on its own resources to kick in..
Musky
i'm so glad to hear something is helping you. hang in there...
>
> i'm going to try that breathing website you sent as i've had a lot of anxiety when going to bed lately. i think it might help.
>
> take care,
> jules
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