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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by 49er on November 11, 2009, at 14:13:23
In reply to Peter Breggin, posted by uncouth on November 9, 2009, at 18:33:12
> Just was reading some of Peter Breggin's anti psychopharmacology writings and I'm curious if anyone has any intelligent things to say about him. Seems to be well-informed and not making baseless claims. How much should I be worried about the Lithium, antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc. that I take causing brain damage etc.?
Uncouth,
You might want to read this article about long term use of antipsychotics causing brain damage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/health/research/16conv.html?_r=1 or
Nancy Andreson, a mainstream psychiatrist did the research on this.
I have personally suffered cognitive damage from long term use of antidepressants and know people in similar situations.
I assure you SLS, it is not due to depression. I know the difference and I am frankly getting tired of everything being blamed on depression. Not a rant at you but one in general.I knew I had but didn't realize how much until I started taking phosphatidyl serine which supposedly helps with dementia. While it isn't the total answer, it definitely has helped. Unfortunately, it is causing insomnia which is another post.
By the way, I used to think that Breggin was a crazy wacko anti psychiatry nut until I saw the light on what these psych meds were doing to me. Now I think he is mostly correct with the exception of his position on autism which seems to be in the dark ages.
If you decided to taper uncouth, feel free to babble mail me. I have nothing to sell. I have tapered from 4 meds down to 1 which I am going to have taper with micro cuts since it is a sleep med.
49er
PS - I am hoping that once I am completely off of med that the cognitive damage will improve. Only time will tell.
Posted by 49er on November 11, 2009, at 14:16:53
In reply to Litium is neuroprotective? You sure?, posted by TriedEveryDrug on November 10, 2009, at 22:13:43
> > Lithium is a neuroprotective agent and can guard against nerve cell degeneration.It seems the only way to measure whether something truly is neuroprotective is to conduct neuropsychological testing over several years since it takes several years for drug damage to show up in many cases. Of course, the changes of that happening are zilch.
49er
Posted by uncouth on November 11, 2009, at 14:57:40
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » uncouth, posted by 49er on November 11, 2009, at 14:13:23
49er i would love to hear what you have done, what meds you have tapered, how you have felt during the process, and the 'before/after' of you with respect to antipsychotics. which one(s) were you on and for how long? what's your diagnosis?
i'm in the middle of deciding whether to try saphris (asenapine), the newest AP. on the one hand, i underwent a severe, suicidal, ruminative depression for months this summer. refractory to antidepressants, eventually lithium and zyprexa got me out of it. unfortunately i can't tolerate zyprexa.
at my baseline, i am someone with a pretty messed up dopamine system. my normal state is one of anhedonia, amotivation, impulsiveness. i tend to get addicted to the internet, cigarettes, anything that can provide me with a fix.
bupropion has helped bring back some control. i'm on 600mg, a very high dose. and am thinking about going higher, because it's incomplete.
i am hoping an antipsychotic will help normalize my dopamine system. i had high hopes for abilify as it is a 'stabilizer' but it just made things worse. maybe i was on too high of a dose?
my life is a mess because i can't focus on normal, long term rewards (work, career, women, etc.) and instead I revert to impulsive, short term thinking (lets stay on the internet instead of planning something, let's not do my work, etc.). antidepressants by themselves haven't made a dent over the last few years, and probably have made them worse (at least the SSRIs). my diagnosis is bipolar 2, and though i spend most of my time depressed, i am hoping a mood stabilizer / antipsychotic will help normalize my reward system over time and give me some semblance of a life again. right now i'm just irresponsible, feel lazy, like i'm wasting my life, and not able to control myself.
the one drug that helped self-will was emsam. unfortunately it also caused a psychotic depression and made me feel like a genius. definite hypomanic reaction.
zyprexa did work well for me but couldn't handle weight gain.
anyway sorry for sprawling post. i took 30mg of adderall i had laying around this morning + 200mg of modafinil because i have a deadline i need to make for some applications due today. thats probalby why this post is stream of consciousness (see told you my dopamine system is screwy).
but i certainly don't want brain damage from neuroleptics. the problem i have is just continuing down the path of antidepressants + stimulants. it hasn't worked for years so i need to try something new. i know APs are powerfull...it scares me that they will change my thinking dramatically, or slow down my thoughts, or kill creativity, but at the same time, I NEED and WANT something that will shake me to a new equilibrium point in my brain.
thanks for the link.
bye for now,
uncouth (crazy verison)
Posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 15:10:13
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » uncouth, posted by 49er on November 11, 2009, at 14:13:23
> You might want to read this article about long term use of antipsychotics causing brain damage:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/health/research/16conv.html?_r=1
What exactly would you like to focus on? Can you post an exerpt of the article that you found salient?
> I have personally suffered cognitive damage from long term use of antidepressants and know people in similar situations.
How did you measure this damage?
I guess you'll know for sure if you have been damaged only once you have discontinued the drugs that you currently identify as the offenders. Otherwise, you might be experiencing an ongoing side effect. Hopefully, it is a side effect that will disappear once your protracted taper period comes to an end.
By the way, how long do you have left until you are medication-free?
How long ago did you begin your tapers? You've been tapering the same drug(s) for many months, right?
> I assure you SLS, it is not due to depression.
Had I addressed you personally? I don't remember challenging you or minimizing your experiences.
> I know the difference and I am frankly getting tired of everything being blamed on depression.
Then perhaps you should study some other subject.
I don't know anyone here who blames all of their ills on depression. However, medicine is just coming to grips with how depression can affect the brain, mind and body, and that there are indeed many physiological processes that are controlled by the brain, autonomic, and neuroendocrine systems that are deranged as a result of the brain dysregulation associated with depression. Depression can even cause blurred vision, dizziness, dry mouth, and constipation as the result of dysautonomia.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:30:47
In reply to Re: Litium is neuroprotective? You sure? Breggin?, posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 7:30:25
I'm not exactly sure of the association. If GSK-3b gets too high then (as SLS mentioned) there can be cell death. If GSK-3b gets too low there is also a reduction in some forms of placticity. GSK-3b is important for triggering axonal growth in the early stages of developement. GSK-3b inhibition is supposedly partially responsible for the tetarogenic effects of lithium and divalproex.
I also know that mild gsk-3b inhibition improves neurotransmission but if gsk-3b inhibition gets too low there are significant derangements in normal brain function (ie sensorimotory gating deficicts, latent inhibition issues). I think some studies have found that gsk-3b is dramatically reduced in schizophrenia.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:38:36
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » 49er, posted by uncouth on November 11, 2009, at 14:57:40
I do feel that many psychiatric drugs can cause... well...brain damage.
Depression can too, but I agree that almost all side effects of psychiatric drugs get blamed on the underlying condition.
I think that depression has been (for me) the bigger offender in terms of cognative problems, that being said I know some drugs have left me feeling off.
Lithium appears to be neuroprotective in vitro and in animal models of neurodegenerative diseases. Lithium, through gsk-3b inhibition also appears to slow the development of the plaques characteristic of alzheimers disease.
One study seemed to suggest that those who had been taking long term lithium had a reduced risk of developeming alzheimers.
More than one study too suggests that lithium is trophic to human grey matter.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 15:40:58
In reply to Re: Litium is neuroprotective? You sure? Breggin?, posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:30:47
> I'm not exactly sure of the association. If GSK-3b gets too high then (as SLS mentioned) there can be cell death. If GSK-3b gets too low there is also a reduction in some forms of placticity. GSK-3b is important for triggering axonal growth in the early stages of developement. GSK-3b inhibition is supposedly partially responsible for the tetarogenic effects of lithium and divalproex.
>
> I also know that mild gsk-3b inhibition improves neurotransmission but if gsk-3b inhibition gets too low there are significant derangements in normal brain function (ie sensorimotory gating deficicts, latent inhibition issues). I think some studies have found that gsk-3b is dramatically reduced in schizophrenia.
The depth and scope of your knowledge always astounds me - even when we are angry with each other.:-)
I wish I had your memory for detail. Maybe someday...
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on November 11, 2009, at 15:46:49
In reply to Re: Litium is neuroprotective? You sure? Breggin? » linkadge, posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 15:40:58
Well thanks. There is so much that I don't know though. I just remember the results of some studies, I don't know much about the interaction of all these enzymes, proteins, etc.
Linkadge
Posted by floatingbridge on November 11, 2009, at 17:05:18
In reply to Re: Litium is neuroprotective? You sure? Breggin?, posted by SLS on November 11, 2009, at 7:30:25
Hey there, Is NAC supposed to help with this?
>
> For those whom are unfamiliar with GSK-3b inhibition, this is one of the many biological effects of lithium. High levels of GSK-3b are associated with neuronal cell death (apoptosis).addressed to all you brains on this thread,
:-)
fb
Posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:30:44
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » bleauberry, posted by SLS on November 10, 2009, at 16:57:34
Hi SLS,
Just to set the tone, I am not entering into a serious discussion in this thread, just kind of tossing the ball back and forth in a friendly discussion. So let's play.> Hi Bleauberry.
>
> How do you define the word "depression" as you apply it? Semantics are critically important.Depression is everything you and I know it to be, consistent with the symptoms listed in DSM. Either one symptom or multiple symptoms. The problem occurs when an unsusptected disease manifests itself primarily as depression, and yet that primary disease goes undiagnosed or unrecognized.
>
> > I think it will be 50 to 100 years before the theories...both pro and con...can be debated with any sense of scientific body.
>
> What theories? What do you mean by "pro and con"?By pro I mean some people strongly praise meds as the way to go, while the cons (like Breggin) attack them. You are a strong pro, I am a modest pro, Breggin is a con.
>
> > I think it deserves mention...and this is significantly contrary to the beliefs of most everyone here...that depression is not a disease.
>
> What about bipolar disorder (BD)?Borrelia and cousins, Candida and cousins, immune dysregulation, and toxic burden can all manifest as bipolar symptoms. Just off the top of my head as the most common and easy to explain why the symptoms occur, I am sure there are others.
>
> > but in the support of ADs, the right one can actually reverse the disease...
>
> What is the disease? Does major depressive disorder (MDD) count?I don't know. Is chronic diarrhea a disease? I think it is a symptom, right? There is something else wrong? I see mood disorders as being similar...they are outward clusters of symptoms that correlate with something else causing them. The "something else" is the disease, the mood disturbance is the symptoms of that disease.
>
> > it is possible for an AD to regulate the immune system
>
> I should think it more likely that an AD helps reregulate the brain, which, in turn, regulates the immune system through the secretion of neuropeptides.I would think it probably could work either way from case to case. I just wish it would happen more often.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Sigismund on November 11, 2009, at 22:20:27
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » uncouth, posted by 49er on November 11, 2009, at 14:13:23
>I knew I had but didn't realize how much until I started taking phosphatidyl serine which supposedly helps with dementia.
That's what I was hoping.>While it isn't the total answer, it definitely has helped.
I'm not so sure. At least it doesn't really f*ck you up.>Unfortunately, it is causing insomnia which is another post.
I was hoping it would help with insomnia. Hmmm.
Posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 7:35:06
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by bleauberry on November 11, 2009, at 17:30:44
> Depression is everything you and I know it to be, consistent with the symptoms listed in DSM. Either one symptom or multiple symptoms. The problem occurs when an unsusptected disease manifests itself primarily as depression, and yet that primary disease goes undiagnosed or unrecognized.
Ok. Then, for you, the word "depression" is a symptom or symptom cluster rather than a disease.
Now, you see, I believe that major depressive disorder (MDD) is a disease whose symptom cluster is approximated by the primitive diagnostic algorithm contained in the DSM IV. Do other diseases present similarly to MDD? Yup. Not too long from now, differential diagnostic procedures will use biomarkers to confirm MDD. This might be in the form of neuroimaging or the assay of gene activity as can be ascertained using microarrays.
> > > I think it will be 50 to 100 years before the theories...both pro and con...can be debated with any sense of scientific body.
> >
> > What theories? What do you mean by "pro and con"?
>
> By pro I mean some people strongly praise meds as the way to go, while the cons (like Breggin) attack them. You are a strong pro, I am a modest pro, Breggin is a con.This is where I think it is necessary to parse one declaration at a time. It would be informative to select one of Breggin's claims and detail the biological evidence that he uses to support it. I don't think we need to wait 50 - 100 years to be able to repudiate or confirm his assertions.
> > What about bipolar disorder (BD)?
>
> Borrelia and cousins, Candida and cousins, immune dysregulation, and toxic burden can all manifest as bipolar symptoms. Just off the top of my head as the most common and easy to explain why the symptoms occur, I am sure there are others.Drugs can do it, too. Prednisone can produce manic, depressive or schizoid reactions. Even clonidine (Catapress), a common hypotensive, is known to be depressogenic. As you say, bipolar "symptoms". Yes, other conditions can present symptoms that look like bipolar disorder. That does not make BD any less of a singular entity.
> > > but in the support of ADs, the right one can actually reverse the disease...
> >
> > What is the disease? Does major depressive disorder (MDD) count?
>
> I don't know. Is chronic diarrhea a disease?Since you are so quick to attribute mood symptoms to various diseases of miscellaneous biological systems, why are you so slow to acknowledge the existence of psychiatric disorders of the brain? I am sure you have seen the evidence for this described over and over on this forum.
Maybe I was not direct enough in the questions I posed you. Perhaps you could answer a few now? Regardless of how many different pathologies there are that might present with psychiatric symptoms:
1. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as major depressive disorder?
2. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as bipolar disorder?
3. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as schizophrenia?
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on November 12, 2009, at 16:15:56
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » bleauberry, posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 7:35:06
>>
> Maybe I was not direct enough in the questions I posed you. Perhaps you could answer a few now? Regardless of how many different pathologies there are that might present with psychiatric symptoms:
>
> 1. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as major depressive disorder?Yes.
>
> 2. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as bipolar disorder?Yes.
>
> 3. Do you believe that there exists a brain disease known as schizophrenia?Yes.
>
>
> - ScottMy frustration is that for the most part, it is always blindly assumed that every single patient that presents with symptoms has a brain disease. Efforts are never made, pre-meds, during meds, or post-meds, to do some basic detective work to rule things in or rule things. If we were to rule out 70% of the most common underdiagnosed causes of depression...the ones I harp about frequently...then we would have much more certainty in saying this particular patient has a brain disease.
Posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 16:26:13
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » SLS, posted by bleauberry on November 12, 2009, at 16:15:56
> My frustration is that for the most part, it is always blindly assumed that every single patient that presents with symptoms has a brain disease. Efforts are never made, pre-meds, during meds, or post-meds, to do some basic detective work to rule things in or rule things. If we were to rule out 70% of the most common underdiagnosed causes of depression...the ones I harp about frequently...then we would have much more certainty in saying this particular patient has a brain disease.
I agree.
- Scott
Posted by ace on November 12, 2009, at 20:22:34
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » Phidippus, posted by metafunj on November 10, 2009, at 5:55:05
> Someone I know who is involved in antipsychiatry says that the brain cells that are created while on ADs do not grow or function normally and that they are growing in response to replace the cells that are being killed by the drug.
>
> Do you have any idea if that is true?I havent seen any evidence to that effect.
Who is this person? A public figure?A lot of those guys are just treading the same old boaring water that Szasz did so very long ago...
Posted by Sigismund on November 12, 2009, at 20:31:46
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » metafunj, posted by ace on November 12, 2009, at 20:22:34
>A lot of those guys are just treading the same old boaring water that Szasz did so very long ago...
I don't think Szasz has anything much in common with Breggin, any more than either do with Laing, Esterson and Cooper.
Posted by Katgirl on November 14, 2009, at 15:42:05
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » bleauberry, posted by SLS on November 12, 2009, at 7:35:06
Is this guy one of the "anti-medication" experts? Take care before throwing your medications away. My ex-husband spent our entire marriage insisting I was less than because I took 10-20mg of Paxil. I was inundated with books and articles by people like this. The fact that I had such bad withdrawal from Paxil seemed to prove their point. HOWEVER, after going through prolonged paxil withdrawal even after the slowest reduction EVER, I ended up in a treatment resistant depression because my brain/body could no longer tolerate any of the medications. I spent two years in abject hell, and another three in moderate hell after a semi successfull course of rTMS that at least gave me enough biochemical stability on which to build from. I am much much much better than I was, but nowhere near normal when it comes to anxiety levels. I have to stay on a very rigid schedule to have anywhere close to normal funcitioning. I would like to go back to school or God forbid, date some day but that is out of the question with my anxiety. I pray in my lifetime that either a new medication will come along that I can take or that I will very slowly continue to make progress. I am an odd case when it comes to this subject, because yes, in my case I DO think that paxil (or rather withdrawal to it) did profoundly alter my brain chemistry in that I no longer react to any medications the way I used to. So yes, the drugs have dangers, I whole heartedly beleive that. But if I could go back in time you can bet that I would have stayed on my little bitty does of 10mg paxil for the rest of my life and been able to actually LIVE a full life.
Posted by SLS on November 14, 2009, at 15:57:51
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by Katgirl on November 14, 2009, at 15:42:05
I am sorry - I mean REALLY sorry - that this has happened to you.
For what it is worth, I think employing prolonged taper periods for antidepressants and benzodiazepines is one of the worst things you can do to your brain. My guess is that it keeps the brain in an in-between state of withdrawal that fosters a kindling effect that ultimately produces deleterious hypersensitivities to these drugs - perhaps even treatment resistance. This is only conjecture on my part.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 14, 2009, at 16:00:35
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by Katgirl on November 14, 2009, at 15:42:05
Oh.
I forgot.
Welcome and thank you for posting.
I wish you a better future than has been your past. There are many smart and experienced people here. Maybe they can help you find what you are looking for.
- Scott
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on November 14, 2009, at 16:17:35
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » Katgirl, posted by SLS on November 14, 2009, at 15:57:51
What is a protracted withdrawel in your opinion?
I think with lexapro I went down 2,5 mg at a time. Tapering like that for a few months. Was that too slow?
Posted by floatingbridge on November 14, 2009, at 18:19:25
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by Katgirl on November 14, 2009, at 15:42:05
Katgirl,
Thanks for posting. For a long time, I felt less of a person as well. I still sometimes do. I'm very sorry that you got this message from your husband.
I think the anti-med fanatics really hurt people more than help. They instill fear rather than invite fruitful discussion and reflection on what may be best for any given individual. And there is enough stigma already to deal with!
And welcome--as Scott said, there are lots of wise and knowledgeable people here willing to share their experience.
take care,
fb
> Is this guy one of the "anti-medication" experts? Take care before throwing your medications away. My ex-husband spent our entire marriage insisting I was less than because I took 10-20mg of Paxil. I was inundated with books and articles by people like this. The fact that I had such bad withdrawal from Paxil seemed to prove their point. HOWEVER, after going through prolonged paxil withdrawal even after the slowest reduction EVER, I ended up in a treatment resistant depression because my brain/body could no longer tolerate any of the medications. I spent two years in abject hell, and another three in moderate hell after a semi successfull course of rTMS that at least gave me enough biochemical stability on which to build from. I am much much much better than I was, but nowhere near normal when it comes to anxiety levels. I have to stay on a very rigid schedule to have anywhere close to normal funcitioning. I would like to go back to school or God forbid, date some day but that is out of the question with my anxiety. I pray in my lifetime that either a new medication will come along that I can take or that I will very slowly continue to make progress. I am an odd case when it comes to this subject, because yes, in my case I DO think that paxil (or rather withdrawal to it) did profoundly alter my brain chemistry in that I no longer react to any medications the way I used to. So yes, the drugs have dangers, I whole heartedly beleive that. But if I could go back in time you can bet that I would have stayed on my little bitty does of 10mg paxil for the rest of my life and been able to actually LIVE a full life.
Posted by SLS on November 14, 2009, at 19:07:20
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on November 14, 2009, at 16:17:35
> What is a protracted withdrawel in your opinion?
Anything that allows one to experience withdrawal symptoms, either intermittently or continually, for an extended period of time. This is really a larger issue than I am prepared to discuss right now. There are ways to discontinue medications without relying on a fixed dosage schedule.
> I think with lexapro I went down 2,5 mg at a time. Tapering like that for a few months. Was that too slow?I don't think that is too slow, especially if you are under no time constraints and are not experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Somewhere, there is a balance. You don't want to taper too quickly, otherwise the withdrawal symptoms become too severe. If you are trying to discontinue medications in an effort to be medication-free, you would want to taper slowly. However, some people advocate discontinuing antidepressants and benzodiazepines by reducing the dosage at a rate of 10% every 3-4 weeks. If one were to begin to taper from a dosage of Lexapro of 40mg beginning today, he would not reach the endpoint until early 2011. And still, it is very likely that one would experience some withdrawal symptoms upon each dosage reduction. What's that all about? I don't understand it. I have yet to see a clinical study supporting such an algorithm. I only see accounts of people who still suffer during these protracted taper periods. The funny thing is, when confronted with a case like this, their answer is to cut back to 5% reductions.
There are lots of opinions as to how to best go about discontinuing an antidepressant. I came up with my own method. It allows me to discontinue Effexor 300mg within two weeks with almost no withdrawal symptoms. Prior to using this method, which I like to call a flexible-dose strategy, I would experience all the nasty stuff that comes with SRI discontinuation, including the brain zaps. Yuck. I am also able to discontinue benzodiazepines equally fast.
I guess the bottom line is that I can't recommend a universally effective taper strategy. Depending on who you talk to, the taper period can be anywhere from 3 days to 3 years. I would rather shoot for 3 weeks.
If you are not experiencing withdrawal symptoms, then I guess you are doing something right. Whatever it is, keep doing it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2009, at 21:10:38
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin, posted by Katgirl on November 14, 2009, at 15:42:05
Katgirl that is almost the same thing that happened to me l0mg of paxil for two years went off biting off a tiny piece took about two weeks to get off without zaps. But still had benzos. But since then none work. I know my thyroid being damaged is part of the reason. But if I'd not listened to the pdoc and gotten in his celexa trial I would have been fine on l0mg of paxil as had gone back on it. Phillipa
Posted by 49er on November 15, 2009, at 1:18:47
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by SLS on November 14, 2009, at 19:07:20
<<However, some people advocate discontinuing antidepressants and benzodiazepines by reducing the dosage at a rate of 10% every 3-4 weeks. If one were to begin to taper from a dosage of Lexapro of 40mg beginning today, he would not reach the endpoint until early 2011. And still, it is very likely that one would experience some withdrawal symptoms upon each dosage reduction. What's that all about? I don't understand it. I have yet to see a clinical study supporting such an algorithm. I only see accounts of people who still suffer during these protracted taper periods. The funny thing is, when confronted with a case like this, their answer is to cut back to 5% reductions. >>
I guess you are talking about me:) By the way, in another post, you criticized me for confronting a position you took as you said you didn't criticize me directly. I thought you had a good point but now you're kind of doing the same thing.
I have never said that tapering slowly means that you will be completely free of withdrawal symptoms. But based on how I have seen people suffer horribly on this board from tapering too fast, I will bet their symptoms would be alot less if they slowed down.
What difference does it make how long it takes? The person who takes 3 weeks. vs. the person who takes 3 years may actually suffer longer than the person who took 3 years. So really, no time is saved.
Tapering slowly gives your brain time to adjust to the neurochemical changes these drugs have made throughout the body. This isn't an issue of lowering a drug like Tylenol.
There isn't a clinical study because drug companies have no interest in studying withdrawal and psychiatrists keep advocating tapering schedules according to what the drug companies say. Not all of them but quite a few.
All I know SLS is if I had tapered the way my psychiatrist wanted me to which would have have been alot faster, there is no way I would have been as successful in tapering off of my meds. I would probably still be on all of them.
People on the Paxil Progress boards who tapered slowly are doing alot better than the folks who cold turkeyed or tapered too quickly. Many people who cold turkeyed or tapered too quickly said they wish they had found Paxil Progress Boards.
Anyway, to relate this thread back to the original comment, while I mentioned alot of good things Breggin has done, one of my criticisms ironically is that people like him aren't very helpful as far as helping people get off of meds.
49er
Posted by SLS on November 15, 2009, at 2:59:18
In reply to Re: Peter Breggin » Katgirl, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2009, at 21:10:38
> Katgirl that is almost the same thing that happened to me l0mg of paxil for two years went off biting off a tiny piece took about two weeks to get off without zaps.. Phillipa
Phillipa: That is EXACTLY how to do it!
- Scott
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