Posted by Gabbix2 on September 15, 2005, at 18:09:00
In reply to Re: Adam Eve gained knowledge, but it turned » Gabbix2, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2005, at 17:24:53
>
> If god knows everything that is going to happen...
> Then it means that the future must be fixed.No, it doesn't. Unless you mean that (speaking not from my own beliefs) that when God made the world, he planned everything that will happen in the future, and it is immutable.
Being aware of who someone is, and knowing how they are going to react in a certain situation, is not the same thing as making things happen for them.
That's also different from knowing what someone will do, or what they will choose given a set of circumstances.
Some believe that they have had signs from God when they were on the wrong path..>
> (I'm happy to leave it open whether god actually fixes those facts or whether he just has knowledge of the facts that are fixed by other factors)
> >I had a cat that came running every time it heard a can opener. I knew he would do it.. but he certainly could have decided not to.
>
> Knowledge...
> Is a tricky notion.
> Most philosophers agree that (propositional) knowledge is true belief plus some kind of justification condition.
>Yes but that's according to philosophers, which isn't what I'm discussing. Neither am I discussing what knowledge is to the Kabbalah, or the Bahai
> What that means...
> If you know that your cat is going to come running
> Then it must be true that your cat is going to come running.
> (If you say you know this is going to happen but it doesn't happen then it turns out you didn't know it was going to happen after all)
> You must also believe your cat is going to come running...
> And you must also have good reason to believe your cat is going to come runningThat was not my point, my point is that one can know something is going to happen without controlling it or having planned it themselves.
Whether I am occasionally wrong or not is important to discussing this from whether or not "I* can truly know something,
but that's not what we were discussing. I was saying it's possible for God to know something will occur without having fixed it because of what kind of person someone is for instance.Like a really good psychic...
I don't know how to explain the crucial difference any better than I have, Tamar and I see no necessary connection between foreseeing and controlling but to you they are intertwined. that's not an area I feel like discussing because I get that you see it that way, but I don't and that renders any further discussion kind of pointless.
poster:Gabbix2
thread:553832
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050909/msgs/555354.html