Posted by lil' jimi on April 18, 2003, at 1:29:22
In reply to Re: Politics not in itselt uncivil IMHO » lil' jimi, posted by jane d on April 18, 2003, at 0:16:01
hi jane,
i thank for your reply and i think its very sweet that you have such concern for the prospects for this thread!... now i am replying to you because of the subject line reference, and you quote me here .....
well, i wrote:
> > it is when i think that one view is being surpressed that, i feel, a disservice is being done to our prespective on the issues ..... and i feel there are those who would be happier if they could hear only one voice ... as long as they may choose that voice.... i think we can see where that might be comfortable,... But, i think, we can see where that can cause a bigger problem, .. ..bigger problems.... but then you address jyl, so maybe you were writing to jyl? ...
>
> justyourlaugh,
>
> I absolutely agree. It's a vice of both sides unfortunately.
>
and you agree with me about surpression of views, but emphasize its multi-sided application ....anyway it's followed by more of my message here :
> > we are challenged to be civil here.... may we discuss whether or not i have been civil by bringing up politics as a subject for consideration? .... and is politics even the issue mr. robbins expresses, so much as the issue of free speech? .... even if the issue is "just" politics, am i being so uncivil here?
>and you reply to me:
> I personally don't think that bringing up the subject of politics in uncivil. I do think that before this thread is over it will end up in other people being uncivil. And I think that's sad. And yes, I thought he was mostly talking about free speech too.
>
you very thoughtfully warn be about possible civil unrest, but agree that mr. robbins wasn't expressing a particular stand on any issues , as much as he was describing the challenges he had experienced exercising his rights ... i do appreciate your alerting me in the first place, but do i have you right about the free speech there?> > i would want to be civil and therefore, i apologize to anyone who i may have offended ... but would it be uncivil to expect the sensitive to, or to ask the more sensitive to ..... avert their eyes that i might not offend them ?
>
> I'm a big fan of "just don't read it" if you don't like it.
>and you give a very nice endorsement to self-censorship for the offended ..... thank you...
here is some more of what i wrote:
> > i would only hope that i might be allowed to ask that for those who would want to accept the challenge of opening this sort of discussion that we all engage with clear minds and open hearts each other's visions, that we might better understand .... each other, if not neccessarily the issue(s).
> > ... if that is too much to expect and the powers-that-be deign this uncivil of me, then i shall fold my tent and vanish in to the night of silence .... and i will be okay.... even if it were offensive to my sensibilities.and your response:
>
> I don't think you need to worry about the "powers that be". And I hope you can get the kind of discussion that you are looking for.i hope so, and, great!
...> But the recent threads don't make me optimistic about it.
okay :( ..... got any urls to these recent threads ... i should try to be better informed about such tragic history.
...> I also worry that when you have these discussions with people with whom you have not already established a strong relationship that you don't end up knowing them better - but less well.
way serious bummer ..... a major draw back .... and to me an unacceptably high price, should this become .... well, that would be my standard for failure here ....
> Good luck.
>
> Janethanks ... i appreciate your support and encouragement ..... and warnings.
being rude and insulting and demeening is so easy ... there's no sport in it .... it takes strength to be civil and kind ... it takes big strong neurotransmitters to be caring and thoughtful of other's feelings and empathetic and compassionate ..... there's the real challenge.
even though we may disagree, for me to be disagreeable means i have capitulated ....
i should have better resources for making my case and i unmake my case otherwise, so ...... let's just be civil .. ... .. okay?civilly,
~ jim
poster:lil' jimi
thread:220134
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030414/msgs/220292.html