Posted by Sobriquet Style on March 28, 2006, at 9:56:25
In reply to Re: Iraqi Deaths, posted by Dinah on March 23, 2006, at 9:48:35
>But isn't the question *now* what to do to minimize the number of deaths? Most analysts I've seen, whether or not they were opposed to the war, don't believe a pullout will result in the least number of deaths - other than of course deaths among the soldiers. According to Asne Seirstad's book (apologies for misspellings), one of the greatest fears in Iraq was that a civil war would ensue from the removal of the existing regime.
I agree that to leave the country tommorrow, with the current state of Iraq at present, would not be the best move. However, I believe the withdrawal process plan, which was made before the invasion began, I think its been a learning curve for the future as it could have been planned out more carefully. Easy to say at this stage of course, but timing of withdrawal is in many ways as important as the intial invasion. There will come a time too possibly when the military presence is doing more harm than good, possibly, and that is an ideal time when they should leave. I also think that time should happen sooner, rather than later, the withdrawal that is. Ideally, my own view, is that the US and UK should withdraw asap, any financial gains through business set up for either the US or UK should be stopped. Other countires who are neutral eg Sweden, Finland could stand a better chance of help keeping the piece and use the business' in place soley to be used for the profits to rebuild the country, rather than the countries profiting themselves. I doubt my idea will come in to play though somehow lol I have heard that some soldiers who was serving out in Iraq are totally annoyed with what happened out there, in their own words saying that they destroyed the country, consquently they left the Armed forces because they felt it was very wrong and it was hard to be proud of their actions when the view of the war was illegal in the beginning.
>What was the strategy in Central Europe? How did the ethnic fighting there end?
The thing is with central Europe, the Middle East is very much so a different culture of people..
>And again, what about the Sudan. Is it really moral to stand by and do nothing in that situation? Goodness only knows I have absolutely no desire to get involved, but what's going on saddens me so greatly that it feels wrong to me to do nothing. Like watching domestic violence and not calling the police
I know what you mean. When the invasion began, the military were in control of $40 billion dollars, which was the money from the Iraqi reserve bank and was to be used to help rebuild the country. Because of war profiteers and Iraq law was not in place and neither was American at the time of the initial invasion I think, these law decisions came from the Penthouse. Its estimated that 8 - 10 $billion of that cash has gone 'missing' For example a hospital was to have 2 or 4 million dollars, for its reconstruction. Its shows on paper that it was 'spent' when in reality the money was never used. Some was, but not alot. There appeared to be orders that the money was to be spent very quickly to get results, in reality what happened was the money was 'used' very quickly, unfortunately the results did not happen. The state of the hospital was/is left with flooring that exsposes raw sewage, imagine the hygine, and that is in an operating theater. In the pediatric department, incubators are stuck together with plasters. Basic medical equipment and basic drugs is so bad, that even Vitamin K is not readily available and there is more chance of getting it on the black market than in the hospital. When a child dies because of these standards, he is placed in a cardboard box and simply given to the parents to leave the hospital. The health care is described less than primitive. The sad thing is however, that before the invasion took place, Iraq had the best health care compared to all its neighbouring countries..
Its fairly common today as well for the Iraq citizens to have a knock on their door in the middle of the night to be greeted with 20+ American soldiers breaking through the door, grab the head of the family, pin him down on the floor with a bag over his head whilst his house is smashed to bits as the soldiers look for evidence. He wife and small children have to witness this and in this particular case when he's brother and uncle argued about the treatment they were beaten. The head of the house was held over night in custody of the soldiers only to be realeased the next day because they realized he wasn't an insurgent after all. He was given $1,500 for compensation to rebuild his home.
This is where things are now getting complicated because alot of Iraqi citizens are getting angry with the treatment of not only themselves, but with the promises of the vision for democracy, the improved education, hospitals, oil, electric supplys etc. Some of the citizens are saying they are making far less from the oil than they were before the occupation. Because of this when they fight back and are killed, they probably not recorded as being killed as citizens, more likely terrorists or something.
>There is no "good" solution at this point. But perhaps we can look to history to help us find the least bad solution.
I guess the best start is to look at what is causing the problems. I think that America is the current Roman or British Empire, empire to be more exact, of our times and it is in its infancy with knowing how to deal with the power they have internationally. In time my guess is that as well as having its own style of doing things, through learning and experience hopefully the Iraq situation will not happen again, the entire process of how to remove the leader of a country and dealing with the after effects. I also think that like most Empires, over time America's power and control will decrease resulting in the rest of the world growing warmer feelings towards them Politically. In turn, perhaps greater peace will be the outcome.
Robert Mugabe should, or maybe someone of interest in the future, espeically if the Iraq situation wasn't in place as many people under his rule are very frightened to speak out about whats going on there... it is strange the way the hunger and disease in Africa, or even the 46 million people in America without medical insurance are suffering in the background, and when in hindsight, all the money that was injected into Iraq - what it could have achived elsewhere..
~
poster:Sobriquet Style
thread:621784
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060322/msgs/625463.html