Posted by alexandra_k on September 12, 2005, at 22:00:33
In reply to Katrina - one American's perspective » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 12, 2005, at 14:51:46
> America was founded on individualism, founded on the freedom to pray how you want, speak how you want, and succeed or fail how you want. There is no safety net from cradle to grave. As Americans are viewed as individuals, everyone is responsible for him or herself with little help from Big Government. Like it or not, this is how America works.
:-(
I feel really sad in response to that.
I mean...IF people had equal opportunities from birth (equal opportunities to get love and care and clothes and food and education and to live in a nice environment)
THEN I think individualism would probably work out okay.But the fact is that we have no choice whatsoever who we will be born to. Whether we will be loved. Whether we will be told we can be whatever we want to be, or whether we will be told we are a good for nothing loser. We don't choose whether we will be born to a family that teaches us a world view where we can succeed or that teaches us a world view where other people don't give a damn about us and we should screw other people over for everything we can get.
And so to give people 'equal opportunities' in an individualist society doesn't do anything to remidy or alleviate the injustices and inequalities that exist simply because we do not choose who we will be born to and we do not choose what environmental influences we will have and most especially not in our formative years.
There is an analogy that someone uses (can't remember who)
THE SHACKLED RUNNER...
The people are lined up at the starting line...
One person has shackles...
On with life...
(Clearly the person with shackles isn't doing so well...)And in an individualist society then I guess thats just tough and the shackled runner just has to look after themself as best they can.
But maybe the society has some kind of obligation to remove the shackles...
Is it then a fair race?
You can't rewind time...
It isn't fair.
Life isn't fair.
And I think individualism is a way of the rich getting richer...
And the poor (and indeed all people who have been shackled by discrimination etc)
To be left to fend for themselves...I feel sad :-(
Yes... That is how america works...
But the question remains:
does america work?it is rich...
it has great cities
great universities
great artists and film stars and musiciansbut then...
it has tenements
homeless people
violent crimesthe best...
and the worst...and for some people...
they have been taught...
that screwing other people over is the only way...
and so if we leave them to fend for themselves they will screw you over if they get the chance...and yeah, you have the freedom to keep most of what you earn
but what you get
what you getwell... you do not get freedom from other people screwing you over.
because individualism has spoken:
make your own way and we don't give a damn!
we don't give a damn.
i take that to be the sad message of individualism
but i'm a fan of social responsibility
maybe ones view on this depends rather significantly on where one is placed in the world.
if you have money you want to keep that money
if you feel you have worked your way up in life then you believe everybody can do this
and you think those who haven't managed to are slackers and undeservingif you don't have money
then you start to wonder why other people are so entitled
(you may start to take what you can find)
if you try and work your way up and you can't
then you start to wonder why other people could
(you may start to take what you can find)individualism is loved by the rich
by those who benefit from it themselvesits no good for the shackled
its no good for those who can't work their way upI feel sad :-(
that side of america scares the sh*t out of me.
and for what it is worth...
i feel so very privaledged and lucky
so lucky indeed
to live in a society that has more of a notion of social responsibility.as an example...
when the settlers came...
and the schooling system got set up...
maori were caned for speaking maori at school.
they were told they would never get anywhere in life speaking maori and it was a worthless and vulgar language.
and those children grew up and had children.
and they didn't teach their children to speak maori because they believed that maori was a worthless and vulgar language and that their kids would never get anywhere in life if they spoke maori.and then what happened...
the maori language almost became extinct.
and then what happened...
the government started throwing money into add campaigns, courses, workshops, tv programmes
to try and remove those shackles.to try and turn it around.
instead of being ashamed of ones ethnicity
(like an awful lot of urbanised maori were)
the idea was to show them that they had a heritage a culture that was valued.social responsibility.
we can't rewind time...
we can't take back the facts that we took huge chunks of land in exchange for muskits
we can't take back the facts that people were caned at school for speaking maori
we can't take back the facts that maori people were told they were worthless and good for nothing and second class citizens
we can't take back the facts that they were invited to church to have the doors barred and the church set on firebut we can acknowledge them
acknowledge the shackles
and take steps to turn that around.is it so very suprising that a lot of maori have problems with drug addiction and crime etc etc
when we have shackled them so?
told them they were worthless and good for nothing.
messages that current children are still receiving.social responsibility
i'm grateful for it
without it...
i'd be stealing from you
mugging you
beating you
yup
i would
i managed to turn my life around
but the reasons for that weren't in my control anymore than who my parents were wasn't something that was in my control
and i most certainly do not condemn those who never made it out
and those who never tried to
because they believe there is no way they could ever succeedbut i hope that things get better...
but that isn't going to happen if we leave people to fend for themselves.
that isn't going to remove the shackles.and thats not their fault
it is not.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:553914
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20050728/msgs/554449.html