Posted by Amigan on April 12, 2008, at 7:16:08
In reply to Re: PEA or PLA with Selegiline??, posted by undopaminergic on April 11, 2008, at 20:52:25
Thank you for your informative post.
> > Hi.
> > I have read some excellent reports on the combination of both aminoacids with Selegiline. My question is what are the differences between Phenylethylamine and Phenylalanine exprerience-wise? Which combination is feels more speedy, Acts longer, etc? What are the pros and cons of each? I want to try this combo for low motivation, fatigue and ADD, not depression.
> > I know that PLA is converted into PEA in the body. Does this mean that i can use PLA in case i can't obtain PEA and have similar effects?
> >
>
> Not in my experience - a few grams of either L-phenylalanine (LPA) or D,L-phenylalanine (DLPA) seemed to have little effect for me. However, success has been reported by others. Taking the amino acid on an empty stomach and with pyridoxine (vitamin B6) should help maximise the effect.
>
> Phenylethylamine (PEA) is decarboxylated phenylalanine, and hence not an amino-acid - in its pure freebase form, it's an oily liquid that is strongly alkaline and has a fishy smell (see PIHKAL and the Merck Index for some more details). In practice, you will almost cetainly be working with the hydrochloride salt, which is a stable white solid that is freely soluble in water.Right. I read that it is a monoamine.
> PEA, which occurs as an alkaloid in cocoa, has been called the chocolate amphetamine, and the name is appropriate if (and only if) it's taken under potent inhibition of MAO-B, which is the reason why it hasn't been banned yet. In other words, under the circumstance of minimal MAO-B activity, PEA should be treated with the same respect as amphetamines. The dose required for potent effects is in the range 10-75 mg according to my data, and rather frequent dosing will be required due to the short half-life (in the case of PEA, an extended release formulation really would be a benefit - more so than for the other stimulants in common use).I see. Interestingly, eating chocolate or drinking 3 cups of hot cocoa while taking Selegiline, didn't have much effect on me. While drinking hot milk i notice a gentle activation and increased heart beat. I read that milk is phenylalanine-rich, although i can't be sure that it was phenylalanine responsible for this.
> > Also, does anyone knows a CHEAP, European (EU) source for these substances?
> >
>
> Not unless you buy from chemical suppliers. That was the only choice back when I used PEA. (The containers were labelled with cautions like "for laboratory use only" and "harmful if swallowed".)
>
> You can also prepare PEA from phenylalanine with only a fairly basic level of chemical expertise - the instructions can be found on the web.Ok.
> >
> > I'm well aware that there is a small risk of hypertension with this combo and i plan to proceed with caution.
> >
>
> Although the most striking aspect of my first experience with PEA was the extreme calmness of the mind, other effects were cold extremities (especially fingers) and a considerable drop in heart rate - down to about 60 beats per minute or less - a good demonstration of the baroreflex, which reduces heart rate to compensate for the hypertensive effect of vasoconstriction resulting from noradrenaline released by PEA. I estimate the systolic pressure to about 160-180 mmHg (the normal level is 120-130 or so), which is by no means a crisis, but clearly highlights the potency of PEA - also note that it happened with fairly modest quantities in the range 10-25 mg. Fortunately, tolerance to the hypertensive effect develops - at least in my case. Of course, tolerance develops to many of the benefits too.
>
> I may possibly have a pathologically low dopamine/noradrenaline ratio and ëxcessive dopamine beta-hydroxylase (DBH) activity, and others may be less sensitive to noradrenergic side-effects than I am. It may be interesting to test the effects of a alpha2-agonist like guanfacine, as it might improve the ratio in favour of dopamine, and seems to be the next best thing after DBH-inhibitors, which aren't clinically available.If only Carbidopa was able to cross the BBB..
poster:Amigan
thread:822660
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080412/msgs/822829.html