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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
The short version (long version posted next):
40 year old student (doing well) with a history of addictions. Been abusing Xanix over the last few months and using Ambien. I was to the point where I could have been off it a couple times over the last 2 months without too much more misery but I didn't. I was up to about 3 milligrams per day/night - physical dependence has for sure set in. I am on day 4 and trying to avoid going to get his last 6 bars. It would feel so much better to get them and make things easier if I just did some small amounts and tapered off but then I am almost done with day 3 if I get through this night. I ran out of Ambien, can get no more, and got 10 Lunesta's to help me with sleep during withdraw but it is not nearly as helpful as Ambien except that it lasts longer. It has bad side effects but none the less I took one tonight. I should be going to get more "bars" but I might say I had to work late and see how I make it into tomorrow. Any advice? No doctors invoved here. Yes, one should be but I don't have one. They would not prescribe anything anyway. I just hope I don't have to suffer much longer. My long version is posted next.
I have been on probation for growing pot plants. It has been the worst influence of my life since they test me for pot but not all these dangerous drugs....benzoids in particular right now. I can't smoke pot which was relatively harmless and treated my depression anxiety perfectly so I eventually justified other things BIG MISTAKE! About 14 months ago I went through hell trusting myself for about 2 months with heavy Clonozopam. Then, this last summer I was stupid enough to let the lowest life person I have ever known convince me to try Adderall - it seemed so innocent and harmless at first, increasing mood, ability, focus, etc but within a couple months i was in deep - MIXING IT WITH XANAX to control effect. I was snorting up to 200mg or so at the end THEN I went through hell - I thought it was mostly all the speed but when the misery went on to day 6 I now suspect benzoids. I totally eliminated contact with the person, changed phone number and all. ANYWAY, after my ONE and ONLY ever relapse shortly after with dexadrine that my Xanax source suddenly had, I used Xanax to keep me sane - checked myself into the hospital on day 6 saying I was suicidal (so they would admit me). They didn't do anything except send me on my way the next day. I started being my own doctor and justifying uses for Xanax, under estimating how it compared to other benzoids (the strength per amount). I just finished a research paper for my General Psychology class on prescription drug addiction. Much of its rough draft was done while on these meds or when coming off them. So, I have been doing Xanix on and off (more on than off) for about 4 or 5 months now. I had a couple little times when I could have actually been off them without too much more misery but I used that fact to live on the edge a while longer until I was for sure into PHYSICAL ADDICTION. Ambien was a great thing for relieving my stress at the end of the day/night the first night off the Xanix but that was the last I had of it (with no more to be had - I got it from the same person the xanix comes from - an hour drive away. Last night, day 2, was very miserable - I was shaking early in the day etc - didn't think I would make it without at least something to sleep so I called up this guy and he had a few Lunesta's from way back (he didn't like them). I so much wanted more Xanax to put me out of my misery but Ai know I need to get off it. I drove up there and got just the Lunesta's. I took a double dose and it helped me sleep intermittently but had horrible side effects (headache, hangover, etc). Today, day 3, I felt like **** - still a little shaky very stressed. I could tell my blood pressure or something has been high lately among other things (and a fever??). I didn't think I could possibly function at work tonight (part time job - am in school fulltime at 40 and doing well) BUT I did NOT want to call in sick after having done that a couple times this last summer and such - they have been good to me because of a couple positive things I helped the company with when it started - I should have been fired by the end of summer. I found out they were short people and I went in 5 hours early forcing myself to work, feeling like **** - at least I would get off 5 hours early. I just got off and had it all set to go get the last 6 bars (2mg each - can break them) to take small amounts and taper down over the next few days and relieve my misery. I was expected to be making the hour long drive up there right now but the thing is if I can get through tonight that will have been 3 days without Xanix - shouldn't it get better? Or would I be better off letting myself do some small amounts and taper off with his last 6 bars? I took a Lunesta tonight and think I should try to see how much better i am tomorrow. I can always tell him I had to work late or whatever and go tomorrow. I am doing well in school, getting A's, and really want to make something of the rest of my life at 40 so I need to throw away addictions! I don't feel I have anyone to talk to that would not look down on me so much from past things. I have sooo many good qualities - the one downfall is the addiction issue. My mother and father (both very dysfunctional in their own ways) are dead. I don't have any family. My one good friend is in another city and for the first time AI don't even feel like I can talk to him.
Posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 16:09:35
So sorry for your problems! I sure feel for you. I am extremely depressed and your story makes me even more depressed. I guess it's cause I can relate. Never been down the benzo road, but the cocaine road and the longterm pot roads were treacherous.
You might want to jump over to the alternative board here and ask what can help. Basic things like taurine supplements, gaba supplements, 5htp supplements, fish oil, and st johns wort come to mind. They can cut the edge for sure. Choose either st johns wort or 5htp but not both. The others can be mixed.
As far as meds go, either a long slow taper of xanax is in order, or try to get to a doctor or emergency room right away and say whatever you need to say to get a prescription for zyprexa or seroquel, both calming and sedating popular antipsychotics used for depression, anxiety, insomnia, and drug withdrawal.
Posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad » WhyandHow, posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 17:10:08
Since the Xanax is the"biggy" right now......I would sure get some Xanax and taper but I have already gone into my 4th day here with none so shouldn't I be through the worst physical part? I have not done it long enough to warrant a real long time. If I do get a hold of this "guy" and drive an hour to get the last six 2mg bars he has to sell will I just have to go through this all over again? sure I wouldtry to take very small does but.... I could go to the "urgent care" doctor office but I doubt they would do anything. since I am taking some Lunesta I got a hold of to help me at least get some sleep, the serequel would be good for after that - OR maybe I would be much better with that now (if it would do enough)instead since it is not related to benzoids like Lunesta. maybe it is God's will that this jerk who lives an hour away is unavailable till later tonight. Last night I avoided him (while still telling him to hold them for me) so I could try with out more Xanax (as much as I wanted them!).
Posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 16:09:35
Actually, I apologize for giving a faulty opinion...for someone who fights so hard with addiction as you do, doing a slow taper off xanax is not likely a realistic option...it may just invite another trip down another bad road.
Zyprexa or seroquel would be the quickest fixes, bringing relief on day 1 within hours. And they would buy yourself some time to look into the natural treatments.
Posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad » WhyandHow, posted by blueberry on November 17, 2006, at 18:03:54
I probably could do it and would not let it lead me down another "road" BUT, I don't need to prolong any misery either. However, if I could minimize misery right now and still do ok, I should do it. At first I used it for a legitimate purpose but Xanix is a very dangerous drug ladies and gentlemen! Its probably only real purpose is for very short term emergency situations. It was only a month or so that I only had 2 or 3 days of misery getting off (and then got some more for "safe keeping") BUT I had Ambien then to deal with evenings. I postponed getting off the Xanax for a while so I could do well at school and work etc. I have Saturday off, work Sunday, school on Monday and Tuesday and THEN have some time off. It would be nice to feel decent and have this behind me once and for all !
Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 18:14:41
Seriously? Go to an ER they will help you find a resource now and set you up with long term treatment. Love Phillipa
Posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad » WhyandHow, posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2006, at 20:11:25
I hate to be skeptical but I know the hospitals here. With a history of benzoid abuse there is nothing they would prescribe or give me. If somebody was having severe anxiety, they would give them a tiny bit of Ativan, ONLY if they were being admitted, BUT, they don't admit anyone because they are always full. The only way to get in is say you are suididal, then there is liability - then they admit you. The last time they had to transfer me since they were full - a 5 or 6 hour ordeal to travel less then a mile - it certianly did not help my anxiety! I wasn't even allowed to have a cigerette. Once in there, you are with the mental patients. All they do is check on you every so often to make sure you are not harming yourself. The next morning you can't stand to be there anymore since they don't do anything. Some doctor will come and talk to you for 5 minutes (the only time you see one there - once a day for 5 minutes) so you just say you are no longer suicidal, they document that and send you on your way. They will have somebody talk to you about long term treatment options but the waiting lists are many months - certainly nothing to deal with an immediate situation. The hospital is the worst place to go!
I think after today I would have been through the worst of things but I broke down and drove all the way to meet this "jerk" and get his last 6 2mg "bars". I broke one up in 4 pieces and took only one of them (0.5 mg). If I just take 1 or 1.5 the next 2 nights, then -0.5 every 2 nights it should at least not be worse then it was going to be. I will make myself wait till the end of the day etc. It might have been a mistake - I should have maybe just rode it out - I wish I knew for sure but either way it should not be really bad now.
Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2006, at 23:11:52
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 22:07:24
I know about the hospitals. I was hoping one near you was large and they could help you get something to tide you over. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jost on November 17, 2006, at 23:30:10
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 22:07:24
Actually, WhyandHow, blueberry's advice really is the best.
Seroquel (or zyprexa) would be extremely helpful, without the downside of possibly opening the door to taking more xanax up again.
If you can possibly drive somewhere where there's a clinic with a psychopharmacologist (pdoc)-- or even a GP who knows a little about these meds-- it really might make a big difference.
I do think a really abrupt taper is very hard to maintain-- I don't know why, but I've heard that xanax is very hard to discontinue.
So even though it might be uncomfortable and I totally can understand why you'd rather do it without having to take that step, I'd like to urge you, if at all possible, to reach out for some help here.
Really, it's not that you can't do it (stop the xanax, that is)-- but it's hard-- and you don't need to put yourself through that.
Even if the nearby hospitals aren't helpful, maybe somewhere a little further away, either a hospital or a doctor could make the appropriate medical judgment.
Jost
Posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 10:16:24
In reply to trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 16:09:35
Well now I already made what appears to be the wrong choice. the night of day 4 I drove and got the last bit. 1mg did not do much for me but now I am waking up on what would have been day 5 feeling a little bit of some earlier withdraw all over again! now, since it is here, I took another 0.5mg first thing in the morning (never did that before). Now I am scared and I sure wish I would have just stuck with it. I don't know if I can deal with going through all of this all over again.
I also NOW realize now that i was actually up to about 4mg per day. These 0.5mg chunks are very small. I'm afraid I just added another 2 weeks onto my suffering and I'm not sure I can deal with that. My father died of a heart attack at age 53. I am 40 and have lived a lot worse than him. I have so many good qualities if I can ever get back to normal. BUT, I feel like this is the end of the road. This is an end of the road drug to withdraw from - it is the type USED to withdraw from other things - there is nothing for this.
Only because I took 1 mg this morning, I am feeling to as bad. I am so scared – don’t think I can go through that again. The hospital is not a good option here, there is nothing else and nobody else.
Posted by crazyknitter on November 18, 2006, at 10:40:17
In reply to Now what?, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 10:16:24
Please hang in there. Post on the board for support and know that you aren't alone.
Posted by Jost on November 18, 2006, at 22:04:51
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 18:34:55
Hi, WhyandHow.
If you're serious about getting off the xanax, you need to find a doctor. ASAP.
That's all there is to do. If you really want to do it, and this is as bad as it sounds, you need to look for someone else, and someone after that, until you find someone who will do a slow taper.
In your city, or another city. And then you have to do the hard work of sticking with it.
If you can't afford a doctor, I know that makes it a lot lot harder. But you need to look for someone, because this is very difficult and you deserve and need the help. There's klonopin, but there's also seroquel (maybe-- I'm not an expert, so that may not be the thing-- but it is used to buffer various problems and might be worth looking into). I do know that getting off xanax is difficult, but can be done.
4 mg. is enough to get dependent, but it's not as bad as it could get. So it's important not to be self-blaming. But if you are serious about getting past this, you need to do what you can to give yourself a chance, and find help. Medical, esp. and emotional.
I know it's very hard, and I don't want to be harsh-- I don't mean to be-- but it's just that I want you to fight for yourself and not give in now.
You've made a start and aren't back at square one. I hope you can hear what I'm saying.
Jost
Posted by Jost on November 18, 2006, at 22:16:21
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 18:34:55
The following is a reputable seeming website that talks about benzodiazepine withdrawal and gives some indication of how it can be handled.
Give it a look. Maybe it will help.
Jost
Posted by Jost on November 18, 2006, at 22:21:13
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4 and feeling bad, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 18:34:55
PS
I wanted to point out that according to the website I just gave you, valium, which has the longest half-life of the benzos, is significantly better than klonopin for withdrawal from xanax.
Since I mentioned klonopin, and saw the same information about valium vs. klonopin on other pages, I wanted to correct that statement directly.
Sorry for the three posts.
Jost
Posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 23:47:11
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4, a PS, posted by Jost on November 18, 2006, at 22:21:13
What can I say - the doctors in my area are ignorant. It seems to be a theme around here as I called and spoke to a lady at the hospital too. They will watch you and IF you actually go into a siezure or something 9and they happend to be nearby and notice) they will call somebody (no doctors in the mental patient area). It is the same at both hospitals near here. They will give libriium for long term alcohol withdraw - well this is just like that! I tried calling all the options I could think of today. If I could get some valium on the street i would - don't know where to get any. Once when i could that did make things a lot easier (before I got to this point). IF I can get past this I will never let myself be in this situation again but I seem to be out of options as far as doctors, am broke for a while , etc. This lady doctor would not even give me a script for serequel! She wrote one for Trazadone (ick!). About a month ago I tried to get into a pychiatric office here (before this crisis) and they would not see me because I have a past debt with them from years ago. I called a fancy treatment center out of state that does do humane detox but again its all about the money. People's lives are only as worth as much money as they can raise nowadays. If anyone could get me a hold of some valium that would certainly help! I'm out of options and have this next week, starting Tuesday scheduled for detox here at home with my dog.
Posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 23:52:36
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 4, a PS, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 23:47:11
I probably should have just stuck it out when I was on day 4 since there are no medical options for me here. BUT, I took 3mg to function today trying to figure out my options (lack of). Regardless of how and why I will be starting detox Tuesday or so.
Posted by Jost on November 19, 2006, at 0:05:36
In reply to Re: trying to get off Xanax - Day 0, a PS, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 23:52:36
It is really hard, because the money issue looms so large right now-- I know it's terribly difficult to get treatment if you don't know a doctor who is at least logical and informed.
I think, though, that you have to try to keep going. You aren't back to square one. There are always options. I know it's hard to find them, but there have to be.
You've gone from 4 mg to 3 mg. That's not square one. That's the first step in detoxing. I do think if you could get valium from a doctor it would be best.
One of the withdrawal symptoms is panic and emotional lability, according to the pages on that website. I think you're going through that. That's one reason it's so hard to taper from xanax without any supplement from other, less addictive medications.
So if you can stabilize right now at 3 mg. and spend time looking in the closest bigger city for some help-- this still is doable. But you need to make it a priority.
It's not Day 0-- that's the drug telling you that you can't do it-- ie the withdrawal, plus the part of yourself that believes you can't do it.
It's part of a process, a long hard one, of which you're on day 5-- and you've had a setback, which is understandable, although very frustrating. It's not the end.
You have resources that you might not be aware of right now, that can enable you to do this.
I hope you keep at it.
Jost
Posted by WhyandHow on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 16:16:53
Can anyone give me some good advice? Since I made it through 3 days - now on the 4th morning should I stick with it? If I give to drive an hour away and get A FEW MORE FOR SMALL DOES TAPERING, WILL THAT JUST MAKE IT HARDER IN THE LONG RUN? I STILL feel bad...nausea, anxiety, and just over all BAD. Will that Lunesta **** make things last longer since it acts on SOME of the same recepters? BTW, I also got back on Lexapro about 6 weeks ago when I though I was going to be on the straight and narrow again but that seems irrelevent right now. I had quit taking it when I was on the roller coaster this last summer.
Posted by Jost on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 16:18:11
Sorry, I didn't see these messages in my other post.
Tapering slowly really is much better: safer, easier, and perhaps more likely to be successful.
But you might really need some support and assistance, if not from a doctor from someone maybe in NA, or another group organization to help people with addictions.
You don't necessarily have to follow all the dogmas, but the support and reinforcement and also help with various crises that may come up, might be invaluable.
It's hard to withdraw from addictions (or dependencies) on one's own.
Hope you're doing okay.
Jost
Posted by WhyandHow on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by Jost on November 17, 2006, at 18:24:54
Thanks for your advice Jost. At least I won't feel totally wrong or worthless if I choose that BUT, I have gone almost 4 days now - makes me think. I could still take that hour drive late tonight when this dirtbag is "available" and get the last six 2mg bars - that would be perfect for a slow/small dose taper. Since I havn't had one for almost 4 days, I could start with the smallest does possible.
Posted by Declan on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by WhyandHow on November 17, 2006, at 18:30:35
Look, if you've got to day 4 on Xanax withdrawal you have done spectacularly well. The syndome may even be shorter for Xanax. You should feel better soonish, perhaps by day 8?
Posted by WhyandHow on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 4:56:58
Well now I already made what appears to be the wrong choice. the night of day 4 I drove and got the last bit. 1mg did not do much for me but now I am waking up on what would have been day 5 feeling a little bit of some earlier withdraw all over again! now, since it is here, I took another 0.5mg first thing in the morning (never did that before). Now I am scared and I sure wish I would have just stuck with it. I don't know if I can deal with going through all of this all over again.
Posted by WhyandHow on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 7:48:38
I also NOW realize now that i was actually up to about 4mg per day. These 0.5mg chunks are very small. I'm afraid I just added another 2 weeks onto my suffering and I'm not sure I can deal with that. My father died of a heart attack at age 53. I am 40 and have lived a lot worse than him. I have so many good qualities if I can ever get back to normal. BUT, I feel like this is the end of the road. This is an end of the road drug to withdraw from - it is the type USED to withdraw from other things - there is is nothing for this.
Posted by Declan on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:33
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4, posted by WhyandHow on November 18, 2006, at 7:48:38
You have not gone back to square one.
What you have done is to give yourself some (short and small) respite from the withdrawal.
There's no right or wrong way to do this....it is just a question of how you want to take your pain.
You deserve a pat on the back.
Declan
Posted by WhyandHow on November 19, 2006, at 1:16:33
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdraw - day 4 » WhyandHow, posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 17:46:20
This thread was re-directed to "withdraw" BUT, the responses are here in "substance use".
Thanks SOO much for your encouragement.
I should have stuck with it at day 4. Because of my tolerance, recent abuse, and history, I am right back to before day 1. I went to see a doctor today - she will not prescribe anything. She is in disagreent with many of the stratagies that involve more mild benzoids with longer half life's etc. I am going to have to "cold turkey" it all over again. I have just enough now to get through tommorow at work, and Monday at school - maybe Tuesday at school. THEN, Tuesday morning or Wednesday morning will be the beggining of detox all over again. I can only pray that it will not be as bad as it could be. Please pray for me. I have so much potential to help others if I can get though this last chapter of addiction on my life (other than cigerettes and caffene).
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