![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 280 to 304 of 488. Go back in thread:
Posted by musky on May 24, 2006, at 0:18:05
In reply to Mirtazapine Withdrawal, posted by valjean14 on May 23, 2006, at 14:56:58
>
Hi valjean:
YES, YES and YES... talk to anyone whos successfully come off an a/d... I have been tapering myself, very very slowly... its taken 2yrs+ if you can believe it.. but I am down to the lowest dose possible and am taking my LAST remeron tonight...
Sounds like you have some xreactivity going on there.. with other meds etc.. as for too many things happening in your life, dont we all have events going on all the time??? Id look at it as now is the time to dig deep into your life and that may help a ton more than staying on the Remeron forever until "the time is right" so to speak,, The way I see it ,it is NEVER a right time... I understand your concern but you have to know deep inside when you are ready,, know it in your heart not by lifes issues.. they will always be there... Remeron or not..Good Luck
MuskyI was prescribed Remeron in October 2004 -- originally the 30mg dosage and then eventually being bumped to 45mg for nearly a year (!). In April 2005, I started on the 30mg of Prozac and things were just fine and the two drugs seemed to complement each other well.
>
> Shortly after last Christmas, I grew very tired of feeling groggy and tired until noon on this ridiculous routine. I spoke with my doc and we agreed to slowly come off the Remeron with a three-month schedule. (I've been down to 30mg since November 2005).
>
> My doc cautioned me that there would be some withdrawal symptoms including fever, nausea, chills, anxiety and insomnia. What he failed to tell me is that there is a percentage of people who are at risk of going into shock because the body is still trying to deal with sensing more adrenalin. This is what happened to me last night in my own home -- thankfully, my fiancee was there and called 9-1-1 after I went unconscious albeit very briefly. Paramedics were there minutes later and it took me a while to remember what happened.
>
> As an asthma sufferer also, I am taking symbicort and it does increase the heart rate. This, combined with 15mg of mirtazapine every two days and my body told me loud and clear that it was not having any of it.
>
> So now I am at a crossroads -- I'm feeling the constant tightness in the chest, I can feel my heart beating, I can't stop tapping my foot or drumming my fingers and I cannot put into words how scared I am of coming off of this drug. I almost have to keep myself occupied at all time in order to keep from hyperventilating.
>
> As I sit here and write this (after reading everything written here) I'm ready to go back on the mirtazapine full-time. I'm almost on month into withdrawal and from what I now understand, it could be many more months. Neither me or my fiancee are ready to deal with this when we've got important life decisions coming up in less than one year--wedding, moving to a new province and buying a new home, switching jobs, etc.
>
> Are the withdrawal symptoms worth the end result in this case?
Posted by jules354 on May 24, 2006, at 10:58:32
In reply to Mirtazapine Withdrawal, posted by valjean14 on May 23, 2006, at 14:56:58
i think musky and johnnyj are right, there might never be a perfectly right time. if you've already gone a month, i wonder if you might find that your symptoms will start to stabilize in the next 1-2 months. they might get amplified a bit by the stress of a wedding and moving, but if you're aware of that and taking good care of yourself i think you might be okay.
but if you decide to go back on the remeron full-time and wait till later to taper off, i think that's ok too. sounds like you have some other drug interactions to deal with, and that could be really stressful on top of what you're going through. i did adjust my tapering off because of big life decisions i was going through and i'm glad i did it that way.
take care,
jules
Posted by brazilnut on June 28, 2006, at 14:38:05
In reply to Re: Finally, posted by jeninco on May 4, 2006, at 16:03:14
Hi there!
I posted a note a few weeks ago saying I was reducing mirtazapine, but I was also on risperidone, constant dosage. In the mean time, I read about risperidone on the net and got scared about it. I asked my doctor to leave mirtazapine there for a while and to wean off the dangerous risperidone. But the initial step he suggested, 0,35 to 0,25mg, was too much a fall. The real problems started then. Now I am progressing at 0,02mg each 10 days, so by October, if everything goes well, I will zero it. I will be back here when catching on mirtazapine again. If anyone has information on risperidone I would appreciate it.
Regards
Bob
Posted by caustin on July 1, 2006, at 5:14:58
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
Thanks for the info here! I"m a Therapist that has worked and talked to many Psychiatrists and clients regarding medications and searched the internet for solid info on withdrawals. I am beyond amazed at the lack of info out there on gettin off antidepressants! I'm also a recovering drug addict with long sobriety and have been in denial of the severity of the symptoms Ive been experiencing, doing the cognitive thing / trying to minimize the reality. This is the 3rd serious attempt at quitting Remeron. I tried the quick taper recommended by my favorite Psychiatrist. It was horrible. Relapsed back to full strength! 45 mg. New Doc says try slow taper. I got down to 15 mg for 1 week and tried to jump off. Horrible, after 3 nights of not sleeping withdrawls like herion detox. I split one of the 15mg last night and finally slept. I feel flat today but no horrible symptoms. Right now I'm thinking of staying with the 7.5mg for a few days. The post on exercise was interesting as this has been a large benefit to my recovery from street drugs, but working out hard last week seemed to worsen sleep and increas symptoms. This is crazy. I also think my blood sugars are screwy as I have the blurred vision at times. I also had high colesterol the last physical and I read where that is another side effect of Remeron. I will credit Remeron for saving me from a severe depression while I was taking medications for hepititis C and it was new at the time so the Docs didn't really know. But they still don't seem to get it.
Posted by jules354 on July 1, 2006, at 16:31:13
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by caustin on July 1, 2006, at 5:14:58
i'm sure johnnyj will see your post but if he doesn't mind me speaking for him i think he has had the same reaction to exercise you did. for me it's been a godsend but it sure doesn't seem to work for others.
musky and i both did really slow tapers off remeron but still had wicked withdrawal...we definitely need more info to be circulating! wow - heroin-like detox - i can't speak to that but the sleepless nights sure are hellish.
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on July 2, 2006, at 0:19:29
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by caustin on July 1, 2006, at 5:14:58
Hello:
Here I sit so tired I want to sleep, yet it does not come. I have had two good days and nights but tonight I am back to no sleep. Seemed close to nodding off and then it just slipped away. What did I do different today? I worked outside and sweated a lot. Not excessive but that is what was different today. Is that what caused it? Who knows.
I had been feeling very spacey and strange after eating too. Just weird after eating. Blood sugar related? Excercise used to be my thing and it is so frustrating when I can't do it. The only thing I can do is take long walks as that doesn't seem to bother me.
I started having this problem after a bout of pneumonia and I thought it was the meds but now am not so sure. My body seems to be in turmoil at times and it is scary, then today I felt pretty good, kind of like I turned a corner but I guess not.
My vision at times is also blurry and I have a hard time reading as things seem to jump around. This is not all of the time but comes and goes. I agree, it is crazy.
This past week I also had a lot of strange feelings in the chest, like electrical zaps but they were not painful and did not scare me. Just odd stuff that defies explanation. They have lessened but still cause me to wonder what is going on inside.
I thought 7.5 was a dose that made me more depressed. I had 3 weeks of withdrawal when I went to 3.75 but started to feel good at that dose. You may want to think about that dose.
Keep posting.
johnnyj
Posted by caustin on July 3, 2006, at 11:44:13
In reply to Mirtazapine and risperidone, posted by brazilnut on June 28, 2006, at 14:38:05
I may try the 3.5. The 7.5 put me to sleep instantly now for 3 nights. I am feeling moderately depressed however but none of the horrible WD symptoms. There never seems a good time to quit. As it takes so long. I thought things were great for me now, but I must travel now and train with jet lag that I dread. I guess I'm going to continue with micro doses the rest of this week and study some more on this matter and talk to another Psych Doc. I may get a few sleeping pills for the jetlag thing. I stayed busy today and that helps some, but did get into a conflict with my wife who wanted to take a road trip for the 4th and I just am not up to it. I preferred to putz around the house and tinker with stuff at my own pace and leasiure. She eventually said she understood but with depression, like addiction - people dont understand it unless youve had it. Anyway appreciate the suggestions and hang tough if youre up to it.
Posted by LIFE on July 13, 2006, at 19:09:39
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by anahata31 on April 14, 2006, at 10:44:36
NATHALIE SEEMS TO BE SUFFERING FROM THE SAME PROBLEMS I HAVE BEEN HAVING FOR YEARS. EATING HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STRUGGLE FOR ME AS HAS SLEEPING. I AM A THREE DAY MARATHONER, AND I MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE AN APPETITE FOR THOSE THREE DAYS EITHER. I HATE MEDS, BUT REMERON AND WELLBUTRIN HAVE SAVED MY LIFE. I BELIEVE IN HOLISTIC MEDICINE AND NATURAL FOODS, BUT ST. JOHNS WORT ONLY SEEMS TO HELP MY MENOPAUSAL SYMPTOMS. OH, LET ME CLARIFY, I DON'T RUN FOR THREE DAYS...I DON'T SLEEP FOR THREE DAYS! I AM 48 YEARS OLD AND HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN TO OVERCOME BOUTS OF SERIOUS DEPRESSION. IT DOES NOT HELP THAT I AM AN ARTIST. I OFTEN LIE DOWN AND MY MIND WILL NOT SHUT OFF. WHEN A PROBLEM ARISES I CANNOT REST UNTIL A SOLUTION IS FOUND. PSYCHOTHERAPY HAS HELPED BECAUSE I CAN TALK IT OUT, BUT EVEN THAT HAS NO EFFECT WHEN MY BODY'S CHEMICALS ARE OFF. THERE ARE ONLY THREE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO ME WHEN THIS HAPPENS. INSOMNIA. NARCOLEPSY. HOPELESSNESS. ONCE THE SADNESS SETS IN , IT IS OVER. I OFTEN HAVE PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS. I FALL DOWN STAIRS AND BUMP INTO THINGS. MY HANDWRITING CHANGES AND MY FINE MOTOR SKILLS BECOME ERRATIC. WHEN I WAS EMPLOYED (I AM SELF EMPLOYED NOW FOR THE OBVIOUS REASONS) I WOULD OFTEN MISS A BLOCK OF FOUR DAYS TO SLEEP OFF MY EPISODES. NEEDLESS TO SAY WHEN I WAS FUNCTIONAL AGAIN GUILT WOULD OVERWHELM ME BECAUSE I FELT I HAD ACCCOMPLISHED NOTHING. MY FAMILY HAD A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING MY ILLNESS BECAUSE I HAVE A GRADUATE DEGREE AND THEY ASSUMED I HAD SIMPLY BECOME LAZY. WHEN MY EPISODES COME THEY ARE LIKE THIS: WHEN ALL IS RIGHT, MY HEAD IS LIKE A GLASS JAR FILLED WITH A MILLION STRIPS OF PAPER ON WHICH ARE WRITTEN TASKS, INFORMATION, IDEAS, EMOTIONS, PHYSICAL COMMANDS; ON A BAD DAY, IT IS AS IF SOMEONE HAS PLACED A FAN TO MY EAR ON HIGH SPEED AND ALL THOSE PIECES OF PAPER ARE FLYING AROUND IN MY HEAD AND I CANNOT GRASP A ONE AND HOLD ON TO IT. IN A COMPLETE EFFORT TO "GATHER MY THOUGHTS" I BECOME COMPLETELY EXHAUSTED, NARCOLEPTIC, OBSESSIVE, AND ANXIOUS. SOMETIMES THE SADNESS IS SO OVERWHELMING I WONDER IF LIFE IS WORTH THE EFFORT. SUICIDE IS NOT AN OPTION FOR ME. I HAVE TOO MUCH TO LIVE FOR, AND I PREFER FEELING AS IF I DO. I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING TO OVERCOME DEPRESSION AND REMERON GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SLOW MY THOUGHTS AND GET A GOOD NIGHTS REST. AFTER ENROLLING IN SCHOOL, I FOUND MY HEAD ONCE AGAIN JUMBLED AND ASKED FOR ADDITIONAL HELP SO I WOULD NOT FLUNK OUT, PERFECTIONISM IS A PART OF MY OBSESSIVE PATTERN, AND WELLBUTRIN WAS ADDED TO MY MEDS. I BELIEVE IN PRAYER, BUT GOD CAN'T HELP YOU IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO GATHER YOUR THOUGHTS ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND HIS INSTRUCTION. IN FACT IT WAS PRAYER THAT LEAD ME TO THE HELP I NEEDED. BELIEVE ME, I HAVE CRIED MY WAY THROUGH EPISODES, SLEPT MY WAY THROUGH EPISODES, SELF-MEDICATED MY WAY THROUGH EPISODES, EXERCISED MY WAY THROUGH EPISODES , I PREFER MY MEDS. ONE DAY, I TOO HOPE I WILL NOT NEED THEM, BUT IN THE MEANTIME I HAVE TO FUNCTION ENOUGH TO LIVE AND EARN AN INCOME. I DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF JIM CARREY'S INCOME SO THAT I MIGHT BUILD A MEDITATIVE SANCTUARY, OR TAKE OFF WHEN MY BODY IS OUT OF BALANCE. I AM AN AVERAGE PERSON WITH A BELOW AVERAGE INCOME THAT I MIGHT NOT HAVE IF NOT FOR MY MEDS. GOOD LUCK TO ALL MY FELLOW SUFFERERS. TO THOSE OF YOU WHO CANNOT TOLERATE MEDS, TALK TO SOMEONE, IT DOES HELP. TO ALL OF YOU WHO BELIEVE YOU CAN WILL YOURSELVES OUT OF A DEPRESSIVE PHYSICAL OR MENTAL STATE, GET REAL. SOMETIMES THE MEDS ARE ONLY IN YOUR LIFE LONG ENOUGH FOR YOU TO GET A HANDLE ON YOUR THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS, ACCEPT THAT AND CONTINUE TO SEARCH FOR ALRTERNATIVE TREATMENTS, AS I HAVE AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO. IN THE MEANTIME, I AM HAPPY NOT TO FEEL AS IF I AM JUMPING OUT OF MY SKIN AND TO HAVE DREAMS AGAIN. MOSTLY I AM HAPPY TO BE FUNCTIONAL AGAIN. I AM NOT WITHOUT SYMPTOMS OF DEPRESSION, BUT THEY ARE LESS DEBILITATING.I TAKE 45 MILIGRAMS OF REMERON NIGHTLY AND IF I MISS A DOSE THE ONLY WITHDRAWAL SYMTOMS I SUFFER ARE INSOMNIA AND LOSS OF APPETITE. I TAKE 105 MILIGRAMS OF WELLBUTRIN DAILY AND IF I MISS A DOSE MY SYMTOMS ARE AGITATION AND IRRITABILITY. IT'S BEEN NICE TALKING ABOUT THIS TO YOU ALL, NOW IVE GOT TO GET BACK TO MY NUMEROUS ART AND DESIGN PROJECTS! TALK TO YOU AGAIN SOON! LIFE
Posted by LIFE on July 14, 2006, at 2:08:15
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by LIFE on July 13, 2006, at 19:09:39
i am about to take my meds and look forward to a restful sleep. did i spell milligram correctly in my first entry? i don't know, i just know that i really feel for those of us who have to take meds to survive,as well as those of us trying to get off meds and are suffering withdrawal symptoms. i do find it odd that i seem to be one of a few who are not having adverse reactions to remeron. paxil, prozac,and others have caused problems for me. so, dr. bob, does that mean i am a severe case, and what seems too strong for others is the norm for me? withdrawal for me is always a relapse , or lapse into the disease itself. just pure depression. paxil gave me a rash and prozac kept me up all night. from the few entries i have read, it appears that others have been prescribed low doses of remeron, i requested a higher dose, i have found it easier to withdraw from higher doses than lower doses during fasts. perhaps because of residual amounts in my system. when getting off meds, what is the goal? if the depressive state is purely chemical rather than an emotional reaction to a traumatic event, or an oppressive lifestyle, where is one to go for relief? crazy? i do believe living in a petrochemical climate has affected my body's ability to balance itself and has some impact on my need for medication. from the entries i have read, it seems to me that many are still in some state of denial and guilt concerning our illness and the serious impact it has on our lives. would we put ourselves through withdrawal if we were taking meds for aids or cancer? who has decided that meds for depression are taboo? who has made us feel guilty about taking something to keep us alive? isn't depression like a walking state of death? aspirin, ibuprofin, allergy medications, and breathing are as bad for your bodies' organs as psychotherapeutic meds. i doubt we would even be discussing trying to withdraw from something if we were talking about accepted ailments. are we trying to get off our meds for health reasons, or are we trying to get off them because somehow they condemn us and validate us as behaviorally abnormal? our ailments are as real and as life threatening as any cancer. in fact, they may be worse because they make us feel bad about theotherwise wonderful gift of life. a life that a few of my own terminally ill relatives would be happy to have. we owe life appreciation and happiness everyday, why are we fighting so hard against something that can help us achieve that? we are behaving as if we were on illegal drugs. when not on meds what are we on? booze? sex? bad relationships? food? self-abuse? where does going without meds take us? is it so important to our egos to be able to say we can tough out our bad periods that we waste days and years trying to do so? without our meds would we even be able to make rational entries here, or would our heads be so bad that we could not function rationally enough to do so? i tried to tough it out for three years and practically f'd up everything i tried to do because of depression and pride. withdrawal. from meds, or from life. i say stop being so hard on ourselves and stop trying to rush off our meds as soon as we think we feel better. our illnesses are legitimate, so are our meds, and withdrawal for us is a bit more involved than a few physical symtoms. for me, withdrawal is a non gratuitous trip to hell. i hope we all find something other than meds to take, but so does an individual suffering from heart disease. LIFE
Posted by brazilnut on July 19, 2006, at 13:26:00
In reply to Re: Mirtazapine and risperidone, posted by caustin on July 3, 2006, at 11:44:13
> I may try the 3.5. The 7.5 put me to sleep instantly now for 3 nights. I am feeling moderately depressed however but none of the horrible WD symptoms. There never seems a good time to quit. As it takes so long. I thought things were great for me now, but I must travel now and train with jet lag that I dread. I guess I'm going to continue with micro doses the rest of this week and study some more on this matter and talk to another Psych Doc. I may get a few sleeping pills for the jetlag thing. I stayed busy today and that helps some, but did get into a conflict with my wife who wanted to take a road trip for the 4th and I just am not up to it. I preferred to putz around the house and tinker with stuff at my own pace and leasiure. She eventually said she understood but with depression, like addiction - people dont understand it unless youve had it. Anyway appreciate the suggestions and hang tough if youre up to it.
Caustin,When I used to travel I would take melatonin for the jet lag, with good results. I understand your home conflict - the same happens with me. People who are out don't understand.
Recently I found that my problem is not only mirtazapine, but also risperidone and... alcohol. It's funny, but I didn't notice it, because I have been drinking almost nothing the last 2 years.
Regards,
Bob
Posted by Little Mommy on July 19, 2006, at 23:57:55
In reply to Re: Mirtazapine and risperidone, posted by brazilnut on July 19, 2006, at 13:26:00
Well, I did it!! I am finally off the Remeron!! I have been off for almost 2 months since tapering very, very slowly. I went from 15 to 7.5 for about a 6 weeks, then went to 3.75 and stayed on that for probably 2 months and then chopped the 3.75 in half (as best I could) and took that for another 2 months. I stopped taking the 'chunk' of remeron and felt a bit panicky, sleep being interupted, but now, it seems that all these things are very minimal and I am only feeling better. I have been going to a naturopath and she told me to get off all wheat products, milk, sugar, and I've been taking a high potent Vit B supplement along with a Neuro booster. Wheat, apparently, is very hard on the brain and it's functions. I am also taking iodine to boost my metabolisim which has given me energy to exercise and since the change in diet I have not been craving food like I did before (even before the Remeron munchies). I am losing weight and getting into shape.
I know that Remeron is a nightmare of a drug to get off of and I think the best way is taper, taper, taper. Also, see if a diet change helps. I am still on Paxil but I am weaning off that now, too. down to 5 mg a day. I wish all of you who are struggling with remeron withdrawal to keep trying to get off and I know that you will be able to do it. All the Best!!
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 7, 2006, at 13:41:06
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
I have been on Remeron for a little over two weeks and I need to know how to withdraw from it.
I took 30mg for three days, then reduced it to 15mg for about 11 days. I decided I did not want to be on Remeron due to fast weight gain and the fact it is not helping must. So for three days I took 7.5mg. I have not taken anything tonight. Should I reduce further? Or now alternate days for a day or two to reduce any withdrawl symptoms. I feel somewhat uncomfortable tonight a little dizzy, light headed, etc. but its tolerable...
Posted by jeninco on August 7, 2006, at 14:43:47
In reply to 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 7, 2006, at 13:41:06
I tried stopping it at 1/4 of a 15 mg pill. I don't recommend it. You definitely have it in your favor that you haven't been on it long, but I would still recommend very gradual. Stopping it cold (even at low dosages) resulted in splitting headache, nauseau and inability to sleep for me.
The deal with remeron is that it has an extremely long half life, so you may not even start to feel the effects until 10+ days after taking the last dose.
What dosage are your pills?
Because you've been on it so short, I don't know what kind of taper you'd be best at.
I'm assuming you're at 1/2 pill now (7.5). You've been at it for something like 11 days, so now try dropping down to 1/2 that. I think I stayed at each dosage for 10 days. If you start feeling sick or anything than you're going too fast. I did still get an occasional head ache but that was it. Just taper down a little more every 10 days and you should be fine, remembering again to slow down the taper if it gets too bad.
You MAY be one of the lucky ones who don't have a hard time with stopping this medication, but man, if you aren't you will be very sorry. You can feel the affects from this for a very long time.
I took it from Nov-April, and only at small dosages (never more than 7.5), and stopping it was pretty hard. I went back to it after about 17 days the first time (after stopping cold turkey at 3.75), and immediately began a very gradual taper. I tapered down to 1/8 of a pill to every night for about 10 days, every other night, every 2nd night, every 3 for a few nights, then I stopped. And I've really had no big problems.
Others here have recommended against my taper, but I have to say, it worked very well for me.
I've been off for 22 days and aside from the occasional headache or mild nauseau here and there (dramamine will fix that), I've been fine.Good luck!
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 7, 2006, at 21:12:38
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jeninco on August 7, 2006, at 14:43:47
Jeninco,
You weren't kidding! Last night and this morning have been very bad. I had shooting headaches on the left side of my head, very shakey this morning, not clear for a lot of things. I don't haev a lot of panic or anxiety, but boy I feel like dirt. Last night after thinking about it I broke off around a 3.5mg section and took it. It helped alleviate some of the minor symtpoms I have having and I could sleep. But this morning, oh my.. so I just took another 3.5-4mg break off to try to balance myself. I think the three days on the 7.5mg was not enough even after being on this a short time I am feeling not very good. I have noticed the effects of this medication are very immediate so hopefully I will start to stable out soon. I will take 3.5 once in the morning and once at night for probably a 5 days to a week and then taper it down to 3.5mg once a day for awhile and then everyother day and then try to stop. Probably will take me at least two weeks.
I know Remeron has a 20-40hr half life, but since I had only been taken a half a 30mg pill for 11 days I figured the withdrawal would be easier, I am glad I am stopping this now, I can't imagine how I would feel trying to get off of it after taking it for a few months.
Posted by LIFE on August 8, 2006, at 20:43:07
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 7, 2006, at 21:12:38
I AM STILL TAKING MY REMERON AND WELLBUTRIN AND PLAN TO CONTINUE TO DO SO. HOWEVER, TO THOSE OF YOU TRYING TO WITHDRAW, I OFFER THE FOLLOWING REMEDY: TO ONE GALLON OF WATER: ADD 1 TABLESPOON OF CHAMOMILE (DRY HERB, RELAXANT, SOURCE OF CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM), 1 TABLESPOON OF CATNIP (DRY HERB, RELAXANT, SOURCE OF VITAMINS A, C, AND B-COMPLEX) BOTH CHAMOMILE AND CATNIP ARE VERY EFFECTIVE FOR WITHDRAWAL FROM ANY DRUG) (IF YOU HAVE CATS, AS I DO, THEY LOVE CATNIP RAW AS WELL AS THE VALERIAN RAW!), 1 TABLESPOON OF BLACK COHOSH (DRY HERB, RELAXANT, SOURCE OF CALCIUM, POTASSIUM, MAGNESIUM , AND IRON) ( CHAMOMILE, CATNIP, AND BLACK COHOSH HELP ALLEVIATE HEADACHES AND PAIN), 1 TABLESPOON OF VALERIAN (DRY HERB, SOURCE OF MAGNESIUM, POTASSIUM, GREAT FOR PAIN AND DRUG WITHDRAWAL) VALERIAN TAKES SOME GETTING USED TO AS IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN AND CAN CAUSE DEPRESSIVE SYMPTOMS IN SOME INDIVIDUALS OVER TIME IN MUCH THE SAME WAY AS SOME ANTIDEPRESSANTS DO OVER A PERIOD OF PROLONGED USE, ADJUST THE AMOUNT AS NEEDED), 1 TABLESPOON OF ST. JOHN'S WORT( DRY HERB, RELAXANT, HELPS WITH THE "COLD SWEATS" OF WITHDRAWAL, HEADACHES, AND THAT "THICK" FEELING ASSOCIATED WITH THE RESIDUAL BUILDUP OF DRUGS IN THE SYSTEM), 1 CALCIUM SUPPLEMENT ( AT LEAST 450 MILLIGRAMS( CALCIUM IS THE BODY'S NATURAL SEDATIVE AND IS DEPLETED WHEN TAKING ANY DRUG OR CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL OR SMOKING), 1 THUMB OF GINGER ROOT OR 1 TABLESPOON OF GINGER ROOT POWDER. BRING TO A SLOW BOIL AND ALLOW ALL HERBS TO SETTLE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE COOKING VESSEL, STRAIN OFF AS MUCH OF THE HERBAL RESIDUE AS POSSIBLE TO AVOID BITTERNESS . STORE IN REFRIGERATOR, HEAT OR DRINK 1 CUP CHILLED WITH HONEY OR RAW SUGAR 1-2 HOURS BEFORE BEDTIME. TEA CAN ALSO BE TAKEN WHEN FEELING ANXIOUS THROUGHOUT THE DAY, YOU MAY NEED TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT TO AVOID DROWSINESS. REMERON DEPLETES CALCIUM AND VITAMIN C IN PARTICULAR, THAT IS WHY THE CALCIUM SUPPLEMENT, AND A VITAMIN C TABLET AND A MULTIVITAMIN( C AND MULTIVITAMIN IN THE MORNING WITH FRUIT OR BREAKFAST, CALCIUM BEFORE BEDTIME TO ASSIST WITH RESTFUL SLEEP) ARE VITAL TO THE WITHDRAWAL PROCESS. TRY TO DRINK PLENTY OF WATER TO FLUSH OUT RESIDUAL BUILDUP AND, IF YOU CAN, DO AN HERBAL CLEANSING, MANY CAPSULE AND TABLET CLEANSING SYSTEMS ARE AVAILABLE AT YOU LOCAL HEALTH FOOD MARKET, GNC, OR VITAMIN OUTLET. COLD TURKEY IS NEVER THE WAY TO GO BECAUSE SO MANY THINGS ARE DEPLETED FROM THE BODY WHEN TAKING PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC DRUGS. I FOLLOW THIS REGIME IN ADDITION TO TAKING MY REMERON AND WELLBUTRIN FOR THAT VERY REASON. LOTS OF GREENS ( DOWN A COUPLE OF SPRIGS OF RAW PARSELY) ARE NECESSARY TO REPLENISH YOUR WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT, THE MAJOR DEMON ACCOMPANYING REMERON IS THE REDUCTION OF WHITE BLOOD CELLS, THE INFECTION FIGHTING CELLS OF THE BLOOD. RECENTLY, ON THE CRAZYMEDS.COM SITE SOMEONE ERRONEOUSLY ACCUSED REMERON OF CAUSING HERPES WHEN, IN FACT, IT WAS THE REDUCTION OF WHITE BLOOD CELLS THAT ALLOWED THE LATENT CARRIER OF THE HERPES VIRUS TO SUDDENLY ERUPT IN A FULL BLOWN CASE OF HERPES. THE HERBS MENTIONED ABOVE CAN ALSO BE PURCHASED IN CAPSULE, TABLET, OR LIQUID SUBLINGUAL DROP FORM, ALTHOUGH, AT A MUCH INCREASED EXPENSE AND DECREASED CONTROL OF DOSAGE. WARNING! MANY DROPS OR LIQUID SUPPLEMENTS MAY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF ALCOHOL TO ASSIST THE BODY IN ABSORPTION. GOOD LUCK WITHDRAWING! LIFE
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 13:00:03
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 7, 2006, at 21:12:38
Hello, I just want to say that I agree that tapering of Remeron for everyone trying to get off of it is definitely a must. And to add, everyone's metabolism is different, so, it's just a matter of finding the rate of taper that's right for you. And if you're having a hard time even after a year or two of tapering, then (while you're still actually physically taking Remeron), I'm thinking that maybe you shouldn't be coming off AD's. I've been off Remeron for 26 days now, and there are still days where I don't feel that I'm doing the right thing. It also took me a lot of dietary changes to get to this point, otherwise I'd still be on the maximum dosage (whether it be Remeron or any other AD). All I can say to people is to keep trying, it's a very nasty process that no-one should go through.
Take care.
Jim
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 13:48:55
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 13:00:03
I can't imagine having to taper this drug for a year after only taking it for two weeks, the thought of having to do that is hopeless.
I do not believe that medication is necessary to cure panic. Medication only treats the symptoms not the root of the problem. I don't know why I even started on this stuff, I just can't understand why after only two weeks on it I am having so much trouble getting off of it.
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 16:39:28
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 13:48:55
Hi, TIRED. Sorry, I didn't mean to steer you wrong on this matter. All I meant was that some people, as I've noticed on this website, have taken a year or more to wean from Remeron, because the symptoms are so bad. And as much as I strongly dislike saying this, that some people actually do need AD's. But, I firmly believe that these AD's are only good as a temporary measure, until the "OH SO HELPFUL" doctors figure out what is causing their "panic" or "depression".
More problems are created because a lot of people are on this AD's a lot longer than they should be, and that's when their bodies and neurological systems get totally out of whack
All I'm suggesting is that if the withdrawal symptoms are too strong, then taper it a bit more and regardless you'll still need a lot of patience.
One question I do have for you, though is since you started taking Remeron, did your original symptoms subside at all or has Remeron just been a total hindrance?
And I know that I speak for a lot of other people on here in saying that we all have concern for you for things to get better.
Jim
> I can't imagine having to taper this drug for a year after only taking it for two weeks, the thought of having to do that is hopeless.
>
> I do not believe that medication is necessary to cure panic. Medication only treats the symptoms not the root of the problem. I don't know why I even started on this stuff, I just can't understand why after only two weeks on it I am having so much trouble getting off of it.
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 22:57:15
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 9, 2006, at 16:39:28
Jim,
The first day I took it I felt a soothing/smoothing sensation, however that was followed by a day later with very harsh side effects that forced me to reduce the dosage to 15mg. I took 15mg for 11 days with little noticable help. I have been having panic problems for almost two years. However, I have keep a diary for the last five months of my problem, there was a study done at Harvard and my sleep apnea test was put into this little program, I have some sleeping problems that may be the cause of the panic, but that is still left to be determined. I firmly beleive that anxiety and other panic disorders and sleep problems are all related to one another. Everyone with panic or anxiety needs a CBT psycholgist, medication may be needed, but I think a majority of the issues can be resolved with some relaxation techniques by a guided therapist, a learning of how to cope with the symptoms until they subside. I no longer worry so much about the symptoms that they increase in strength. I do still fear death sometimes, but the point is is that I have learned all of this is panic, I am not having a heart attack/stroke, other illnesses, etc. Sometimes it bothers me, but typcially only at night when I am ready to sleep. My day is very busy and the anxeity is there during the day, but I am able to ignore it 99% of the time and get my work done. I am either strong headed or have a serious panic problem that is only subdued by work. Strange. Anyway, I don't like medication and I have had enough, I am tired of the side effects and worry that comes along with taking these drugs, I feel they are all bad in one way or another, not just psych drugs, all drugs in general, if we eat healthy, do exercise and don't worry about things we cannot control, the world would be a very different place...
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 9, 2006, at 22:57:15
Hello again, Tired: I think you've likely hit the nail right on the head with regards to panic and some sleep disorders being related to another. I definitely agree. Except one thing, I think the cause of the sleep disorder is the panic. Basically, one doesn't sleep because they have a million things racing around in their heads, to the point where it causes extreme discomfort.
Obviously, you don't have a severe form of panic, if it can be kept at a minimal level by distracting utilizing work or exercise, etc.
Have you ever considered any natural AD's like St John's Wort or 5-HTP? These you can find at any health or natural food store or health section in your grocery store. These come nowhere close to having the adverse effects of what a normal AD can produce. I took 5-HTP for quite a while and it worked great until it interfered with the AD that I was taking. When you get off the Remeron for good, maybe (just a suggestion) you could try something like that.
As for actually getting off the Remeron, tapering is definitely a good idea. Normally, I would say to wait until you levelled off, before going on to the next level of tapering, however, because you've never really levelled off, I'm not really sure what to say there, because this is actually the first time for me that I've been able to get to the point of being anti-depressant free like I am now (first time in 10 1/2 years)(and I'm still not out of the woods yet).
So, I'll field this question to any other reader out there. Has anyone else out there had the same experience as TIRED has, where they never got used to the Remeron in the first place?
> Jim,
>
> The first day I took it I felt a soothing/smoothing sensation, however that was followed by a day later with very harsh side effects that forced me to reduce the dosage to 15mg. I took 15mg for 11 days with little noticable help. I have been having panic problems for almost two years. However, I have keep a diary for the last five months of my problem, there was a study done at Harvard and my sleep apnea test was put into this little program, I have some sleeping problems that may be the cause of the panic, but that is still left to be determined. I firmly beleive that anxiety and other panic disorders and sleep problems are all related to one another. Everyone with panic or anxiety needs a CBT psycholgist, medication may be needed, but I think a majority of the issues can be resolved with some relaxation techniques by a guided therapist, a learning of how to cope with the symptoms until they subside. I no longer worry so much about the symptoms that they increase in strength. I do still fear death sometimes, but the point is is that I have learned all of this is panic, I am not having a heart attack/stroke, other illnesses, etc. Sometimes it bothers me, but typcially only at night when I am ready to sleep. My day is very busy and the anxeity is there during the day, but I am able to ignore it 99% of the time and get my work done. I am either strong headed or have a serious panic problem that is only subdued by work. Strange. Anyway, I don't like medication and I have had enough, I am tired of the side effects and worry that comes along with taking these drugs, I feel they are all bad in one way or another, not just psych drugs, all drugs in general, if we eat healthy, do exercise and don't worry about things we cannot control, the world would be a very different place...
Posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 11:57:01
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
HI Jim,
Actually I believe that one causes the other, panic causes sleep problems and sleep problems cause the panic. I don't have a zillion things racing around in my head all the time. The biggest problem that keeps me from sleeping is the constant thumping of my heart, otherwise known as mitral valve prolapse, which I have been tested for twice, both times came up mild, which could indicate a sensitivity in the machines. Even one doctor told me NORMAL, you dont have any problems. So, actually I am not worried about it, it is just very annoying, but it does not happen every night. My problems come in cycles. The same days every month I feel great, and the same days every month i feel like crap, I have a record of this, so its quite interesting.
I don't know if I would say my panic is minimal. There are days that I cannot get anything done because I am completely disoriented, blurred vison, etc. And even though I can work most of the time, it does not mean that work is done 100% efficiently. I have my own business, and with that, comes stress, so, sometimes I think to myself, its no wonder I have anxeity..
I saw some remedy online some time ago and it started with a C. It was natural, over the counter, and they had three products on their website for this. And now I cannot find them... What I have done is done the lemonade diet, works pretty good, there is some evidence that suggests that panic is caused by intestial problems and I believe that. I also take magnesium suppliments, it also seems to help a little bit. B vitimins also helps alot. So these are things people can do to help themselves, it may not be a cureall but it should help at least a little bit. I haev also tried essential oils, massage, craniosacrol, reiki, praying, mediation, and on and on. Maybe I am not consistant enough... St. Johns Wart, as far as I am concerned is pretty useless.
Remeron... the wonder drug.. hmmm. I never really leveled off as you said, so I am winging it on my own. The doc said cut the 15mg in half, take that for three days and then stop, so that is what I did. Well... that didn't work, but today I feel a bit better in some areas, so I think I am going to try taking only 4mg tonight and not taking my 1mg topper offer in the morning and see if I can make it through the day without any big incidents.
I am glad you are AD free!! Congrats!!! Taking medication sucks.
Anyway, thats it for now, write ya again when I see a reply. :-)
Posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 12:01:35
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 1:27:41
SEE LIFE, 8-8-06, ST. JOHN'S WORT ALONE WILL NOT BE SUFFICIENT, THE BODY HAS BEEN DEPLETED OF SEVERAL KEY NUTRIENTS THAT BUOY DEPRESSION OR PANIC. JUST BECAUSE I STILL TAKE REMERON, DOESN'T MEAN THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WITHDRAW FROM IT. LIFE
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:46:16
In reply to NATURAL WITHDRAWAL-HERBS FOR, posted by LIFE on August 10, 2006, at 12:01:35
Hello, Life. No, not suggesting that you don't know the proper way to withdraw from Remeron. I'm just trying to make suggestions to everyone, not just yourself. Like a lot of people have mentioned on here, everyone's physiology is different, so perhaps tapering more slowly is the answer, and at the same time before you go down a level in the weaning, make sure you at least are level for a week or two, before you do so. That's all I mean to say.
It's awfully frustrating, not just being on these medications, in a lot of cases for no reason other than the doctor was too lazy to find out what the root of the problem is, then they throw the Remeron Withdrawal factor in there to make things extremely difficult.
I'm on my 28th day without meds and still every day is a struggle, so I know exactly what you're going through.
I'm hoping that your already evident hard work and determination eventually pay off for you. It most certainly takes a lot of time and patience, doesn't it?
Cheers and I'll be hoping and wishing that things get better for eveyone on here.
Jim
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:54:04
In reply to Re: 2 weeks on Remeron, trying to Withdraw, posted by tiredofpanic on August 10, 2006, at 11:57:01
Hi, TIRED,
You know, I think you're right, it is kind of a vicious cycle, isn't it. The more you panic, the less you sleep, and vice versa.
I tend to agree with you about St John's Wort, too. It didn't work very much for me, but, I do know that it works for other people. So, maybe like you say the best thing to do is to keep looking for a natural supplement that does work for you. 5-HTP works for me (now that the Remeron is slowly out of my system, it's working better), but, it doesn't work for a lot of people. If I see that one that starts with a "C", I'll let you know.
Ciao for now
Jim
> HI Jim,
>
> Actually I believe that one causes the other, panic causes sleep problems and sleep problems cause the panic. I don't have a zillion things racing around in my head all the time. The biggest problem that keeps me from sleeping is the constant thumping of my heart, otherwise known as mitral valve prolapse, which I have been tested for twice, both times came up mild, which could indicate a sensitivity in the machines. Even one doctor told me NORMAL, you dont have any problems. So, actually I am not worried about it, it is just very annoying, but it does not happen every night. My problems come in cycles. The same days every month I feel great, and the same days every month i feel like crap, I have a record of this, so its quite interesting.
>
> I don't know if I would say my panic is minimal. There are days that I cannot get anything done because I am completely disoriented, blurred vison, etc. And even though I can work most of the time, it does not mean that work is done 100% efficiently. I have my own business, and with that, comes stress, so, sometimes I think to myself, its no wonder I have anxeity..
>
> I saw some remedy online some time ago and it started with a C. It was natural, over the counter, and they had three products on their website for this. And now I cannot find them... What I have done is done the lemonade diet, works pretty good, there is some evidence that suggests that panic is caused by intestial problems and I believe that. I also take magnesium suppliments, it also seems to help a little bit. B vitimins also helps alot. So these are things people can do to help themselves, it may not be a cureall but it should help at least a little bit. I haev also tried essential oils, massage, craniosacrol, reiki, praying, mediation, and on and on. Maybe I am not consistant enough... St. Johns Wart, as far as I am concerned is pretty useless.
>
> Remeron... the wonder drug.. hmmm. I never really leveled off as you said, so I am winging it on my own. The doc said cut the 15mg in half, take that for three days and then stop, so that is what I did. Well... that didn't work, but today I feel a bit better in some areas, so I think I am going to try taking only 4mg tonight and not taking my 1mg topper offer in the morning and see if I can make it through the day without any big incidents.
>
> I am glad you are AD free!! Congrats!!! Taking medication sucks.
>
> Anyway, thats it for now, write ya again when I see a reply. :-)
>
Posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:56:45
In reply to Re: NATURAL WITHDRAWAL-HERBS FOR, posted by jimbobwe64 on August 10, 2006, at 16:46:16
And a furtherance to my last, Life. I agree that the herbal Anti-Depressant alone will not work as well. A proper diet including the appropriate vitamins are definitely the key, in addition to natural ad's.
> Hello, Life. No, not suggesting that you don't know the proper way to withdraw from Remeron. I'm just trying to make suggestions to everyone, not just yourself. Like a lot of people have mentioned on here, everyone's physiology is different, so perhaps tapering more slowly is the answer, and at the same time before you go down a level in the weaning, make sure you at least are level for a week or two, before you do so. That's all I mean to say.
>
> It's awfully frustrating, not just being on these medications, in a lot of cases for no reason other than the doctor was too lazy to find out what the root of the problem is, then they throw the Remeron Withdrawal factor in there to make things extremely difficult.
>
> I'm on my 28th day without meds and still every day is a struggle, so I know exactly what you're going through.
>
> I'm hoping that your already evident hard work and determination eventually pay off for you. It most certainly takes a lot of time and patience, doesn't it?
>
> Cheers and I'll be hoping and wishing that things get better for eveyone on here.
>
> Jim
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