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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
This is off topic. Hardly matters what the topic is, this question is probably off it...
Does anyone know about gila monsters and komodo dragons? I was reading something today that mentioned their venom, but I thought it was pretty much settled that komodo dragon bites were dangerous because of bacteria in their saliva, and that gila monsters were not venomous -- they just didn't let go once they bit? (Gila monsters always scared me... I've always like monitors, though, and I thought komodo dragons were just big monitors?)
So, someone here knows the answers I'm after. Who's it gonna be? Who will enlighten me?
By the way, didja all know that venom actually evolved only once, in an ancestral lizard long before the first snakes? And it evolved through "recruitment" of cells that produced chemicals, not through naturally occuring salivary components getting nastier. Cells that already produced some nasties were recruited to produce those compounds on demand, as what became venom. At first, there were nine molecules used this way, that number has increased to include at least 17 others. What's more, in the Southwestern United States, rattlesnake venom is becoming increasingly neurotoxic, apparently as a result of rapid evolutionary changes involving both the snakes and their usual prey. Some of the usual prey species are evolving some natural "anti-venoms" which the snakes are countering with more neurotoxins in their venom. Unfortunately, that means that rattlesnake bites are much more dangerous for humans, too, and can take much, much more antivenom.
Also, turns out that virtually ALL snakes are venomous -- even garter snakes. They produce venom which is equally toxic. The difference is that they have no venom delivery system. Some snakes traditionally considered "harmless" -- including those sold as pets -- have enough venom to be fatal to humans, but no way to deliver it to a human. Thus, they're essentially safe. (In some cases, the fangs that deliver venom are in the back of the mouth, in others there are no fangs for delivering the venom at all -- it just kinda drips into the mouth.)
There. I've told y'all something new. Don't I deserve an answer to my original question?
Oh, and I'm sorry to go on about this. I did remember, finally, that some folks are not snake friendly -- thus the trigger warning. For the rest of you -- I'm pretty middle of the road. Snakes fascinate me, but for pretty much the same reason most animals do. No special fondness, although some are just gorgeous, and I have no trouble handling them on occasion. I just wouldn't have one as a pet, I don't think. At least, I've rarely wanted one, although I have no objections.
And I'm rambling again...
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:26:39
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
Racer what are you studying in school? Gila monsters what are those? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 22:10:36
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
There are cool goannas and carpet snakes here. We live in the country and use our own rainwater. Recently there was a very strange smell. It turned out (after a few days) that it was from the old carpet snake that lived in the gutters and under the eaves. He got trapped going round a support with very little space above and below him, and he died there. So there was 8ft of snake, as thick as your arm, rotting on the roof, sending foul snake juices into the gutter. Situations like this are good for me since they tell me what to do. Clearly the snake had to be removed. Unfortunately it was stuck. I went to the kitchen to get some implements...a cleaver, sharp bread knife, big salad tongs, and a couple of forks. (Tasty) The cleaver was a bad idea. My wife said 'you'll cut through the roof'. So that left the salad tongs and the bread knfe. After the snake had been heaved into a box, remaining looped around the support, we (as smell permitted approach) picked the snake up with the tongs and cut it off with the sharp knife, which was much harder than I expected. Then we had to do the other side. Then push and pull the remnant with the salad tongs and a fork so we could get it off the roof and away from our water. Then disinfect the roof and gutter.
But snakes are so cool. I have a friend with a carpet snake in the ceiling who lets him pull the ticks out from under his scales.
Posted by Jost on October 6, 2006, at 23:01:15
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
No. I'm pretty sure I heard a report on Nature Podcasts saying that, contrary to common belief, Gila Monsters have poisonous venom--and the effects of their bite are due to that. The time=frame of the toxic reaction forecloses an infection--I believe the reaction develops within about ten-fifteen minutes.
I can't give you a reference because I listen to the podcasts when I'm going to sleep or in bed-- and I catch bits and pieces-- and that's a piece I caught recently.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 23:03:42
In reply to Re: Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake tr, posted by Jost on October 6, 2006, at 23:01:15
Well I better google it. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 23:09:55
In reply to Re: Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake tr » Jost, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 23:03:42
I did it is poisonous but won't kill a human only small mammals. It stores its food for long periods of time. Saves for mating season. And phewww lives in deserts so thankfully I won't meet one. Have long hurtful teeth. See a medicial professional if you get bitten. Love Phlllipa ps hope I don't have nightmares of lizards.
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 1:21:59
In reply to Re: Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig* » Racer, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:26:39
> Racer what are you studying in school? Gila monsters what are those? Love Phillipa
This question came about after reading an article about snake venoms in New Scientist magazine. Nothing to do with anything I'm studying.
When I was a kid, my grandparents lived in Arizona, and I heard a LOT about staying away from the gila monsters. But, again, I'd always heard that the danger wasn't venom, but their jaws clamping down and locking. The story was that they could lock their jaws on you after biting down, and then they couldn't be pried off. There were horror stories about people having arms amputated, because of gila monsters biting them.
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 1:26:09
In reply to Gruesome snake event, posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 22:10:36
A friend of mine was camping in the desert with a group of friends, a rattlesnake got into the campsite, so someone killed it -- cut off its head with a shovel blade. My friend picked up the body -- which immediately coiled around his arm and started striking at him. He said he had roundish bloody marks from the strikes, and was freaked out entirely by the experience.
Of course, it's one of those things that you hear about and can't stop laughing, even though you know it must have been horrifying for him. He kept telling me it wasn't funny, it was serious, it was horrible -- and the more he tried to convince me, the more I laughed... (He did understand, though. It's that laughter that comes from something so unthinkable...)
I wish I lived out there... But my husband would have had to call me to take the dang thing out of the gutter... For one thing, we're both afraid of heights, but I'm more afraid of seeing him on a ladder than of climbing one myself...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:52:23
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
http://velocity.ansto.gov.au/velocity/ans0010/article_04.asp
Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:54:14
In reply to Re: Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake tr, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:52:23
Posted by ClearSkies on October 7, 2006, at 8:33:34
In reply to Gruesome snake event, posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 22:10:36
You left me behind about halfway through the story. I slinked away from the computer, wimpering.
Sounds like you have a part time job just waiting to be taken advantage of!
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 12:55:40
In reply to Re: Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake tr, posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2006, at 1:52:23
I didn't realize he was an Aussie, but his research was the basis for the article.
That's so cool. And goannas are pretty cool critters, too...
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 7, 2006, at 12:59:24
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
We actually studied this in the herpotology course we did.
Yes, they're not *venomous" in the correct sense of th word. And they do actually let go.. But, the bacteria in their mouths is the problem, and it does kill their prey, and they know it. So, will often, bite and then wait for their prety to die.
You're also correct that a Gila monster is a very arge monitor lizard (Goana in Australia..) The Tree Goana (hmm, might be Green Tree Goana) is the longest of all monitors, but Gila is biggest in height and weight..
Now, don't get me onto homosexuality in lizards *giggles*
Nikki x
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 7, 2006, at 13:02:21
In reply to Off topic question (Gila Monsters?) *snake trig*, posted by Racer on October 6, 2006, at 20:20:46
OK, must have leant on the touch pad of the laptop and deleted a chunk.. so for most of that you can change Gila to Komodo *lol* all my bit about Gila's went.. Hmmm.. shoe shopping has exhausted me.
Gila's dont let go.. You are correct. And, while they do have a sort of venomous saliva, its the bacterial toxins that cause all the problems.
BUT, its Komodo's who do all the other stuff and are biggest and wait for their prety to die *l*
Sorry :(
N xx
Posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 18:50:08
In reply to *puts her hand up*, posted by NikkiT2 on October 7, 2006, at 12:59:24
Nikkita, darling, I knew you'd know the answers on this. I expected to see you sooner in the thread, though -- guess that's the time difference...
Tell me about those shoes now!
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 7, 2006, at 22:45:45
In reply to ROTFL I *knew* you'd have the answers! » NikkiT2, posted by Racer on October 7, 2006, at 18:50:08
I would have answered darling, but the fabulous very pointy toed, but flat, red patent shoes were keeping me away!!
I had a HUGE urge for red patent shoes *lol*
Oh heavens.. Its 4:45am and I have just stumbled through the door.. Why of why do I forget I'm not 21 anymore *l* I'm gonna suffer hugely tomorrow *l*
N xx
ps - did my mess of two posts make any sense in the end?!
pps - Komodos ROCK!!!!
Posted by Racer on October 8, 2006, at 1:25:51
In reply to Re: ROTFL I *knew* you'd have the answers! » Racer, posted by NikkiT2 on October 7, 2006, at 22:45:45
>
> I had a HUGE urge for red patent shoes *lol*That's so funny -- I've been thinking lately I absolutely NEED red patent leather shoes, too! I'm thinking what I really want is red patent with a platform sole -- maybe 3/8" or so -- middling heel, open toed pump. Or strappy open toed pump...
Funny thing is I just sent my husband a list of shoes I liked, and he got through saying, "YUCK!" to every single one of them! {sigh} Not like we go anywhere, anyway...
>
> ps - did my mess of two posts make any sense in the end?!Of course it did.
>
> pps - Komodos ROCK!!!!lol I do like monitors. One day at the big vivarium I got to hold a baby monitor -- GORGEOUS coloring, so vivid. Little monster was an active one, though -- nearly got away from me, even though I'm good at holding squirmers. Still, he was GORGEOUS.
Oh, well -- problem with monitors is I'd have to count the cats daily...
This is the end of the thread.
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