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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
May I whine for a moment?
I hate being human. Even worse is when I make a mistake that someone must speak to me about, and I know that I am wrong. I am embarrassed to the point of tears at having to hear them rightfully correct me. One part of my brain is grateful that they correct me so that I may learn and grow, but the other part of me replays the error over and over in my head, refusing to allow the embarrassment to subside. I have a crisis of self-esteem and then suddenly turn to other, external sources for reassurance that I am okay.
I want to be able to say that I made a mistake, that I will learn from it, and then let it go. WHY CAN I NOT LET THINGS GO? This evening shows me that I still have much growing to do. I still cannot let things go. I have been hiding from this issue and now, I see that it is still there. I need to go back into counseling. Especially if I hope to get a new job and be successful at it.
I spiral and let it grow into a three headed monster that starts to eat my self esteem. I have all these thoughts Oh man I screwed up
I got called on it and they are RIGHT
And they were so nice about it, but I am certain that they think I am an idiot
Why does my mouth always get me into trouble when I have such good intentions?
When am I going to learn self-control?
I cannot go back after such an embarrassment
I need external reassurance that I am actually okay
Oh I am so pathetic that I need external reassurance
Okay, I will give in and ask someone to tell me I am okay
They tell me I am ok but they dont really mean it, they are just being nice
Oh man, I screwed up
Posted by shadows721 on April 22, 2004, at 7:12:40
In reply to I hate being human, posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
I think your real thought is to be perfect and to be perfect at all times. You hate being human, because it means making a mistake. You don't want to make mistakes. You want to be perfect.
Of course, that is not realistic and sets you up for abusing yourself with negative self talk. You analyze yourself continuously internally to watch if you made a mistake. That's were the nervousness comes into play. So much of your energy is put into watching with an internal eye for making a mistake. It is an extremely critical eye. This internal eye is screaning all your moves and what you say. It is very counter productive. Redirect your internal eye onto the external instead of the internal. This part of you is very intelligent. After all, it gave this clever list to be analyzed. So, let's look over this work and put a redirection to each stmt.
"Oh man I screwed up" .....Okay, I made a mistake or So what, I made a mistake. It's no big deal."I got called on it and they are RIGHT"...They showed me what I need to do next time.
"And they were so nice about it, but I am certain that they think I am an idiot"....They really care about me and want to keep me, so they took time out to show me the way they like this done.
"Why does my mouth always get me into trouble when I have such good intentions?"....I express myself well and I have good intentions.
"When am I going to learn self-control?" (Actually, this stmt is all about self-control)...I am going to just be myself.
"I cannot go back after such an embarrassment"..I will do better next time.
"I need external reassurance that I am actually okay"...I am okay just the way I am. I don't need someone's approval.
"Oh I am so pathetic that I need external reassurance"...I don't need someone's approval to know that I am okay just the way I am.
"Okay, I will give in and ask someone to tell me I am okay"...I am okay.
"They tell me I am ok but they dont really mean it, they are just being nice" (This stmt is playing mind reader. We do not how someone is really thinking unless we clarify it)...They said it was okay.
It's very understandable that you want to do your best at this new job. It means a lot to you, but don't allow negative self talk ruin this learning process. Expect that you will make a mistake during this time and expect you will do better the next time. This is all about perfectionistic view of yourself. You have set a standard of I must be perfect to learn. Hmmm No one can be perfect while learning a new job. That's what learning is all about. You see. You are just learning new things. That is great! So, enjoy being human and learning about this new exciting position. That's what being human is all about.
Posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 7:45:16
In reply to Re: I hate being human, posted by shadows721 on April 22, 2004, at 7:12:40
WOW! You are amazing! Want to work as my "thought correction" therapist? Your post really helps. Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2004, at 8:41:05
In reply to I hate being human, posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
They wrote on my kindergarten report card that I don't take constructive criticism well, and it's still true. :)
But I find that as I get older and there is more and more to do, and I don't do it all as well as I used to, that I sort of get used to it. Or more used to it. OK, I don't. My therapist says that when I think I've been a bad girl, I regress to the point of not being able to think clearly.
But Shadows has some great suggestions on thought corrections. I need to pull myself together enough to apply them when needed myself. :)
Posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 9:10:05
In reply to Re: I hate being human, posted by shadows721 on April 22, 2004, at 7:12:40
There are certain situations that pop me into panic mode too. I used to be able to counter my negative self-talk, but now I find it makes no difference. Once I'm going, I'm gone. Does anyone have any ideas about stopping emotional acceleration when logic isn't enough?
Posted by rainyday on April 22, 2004, at 9:20:27
In reply to Thoughts vs. emotions, posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 9:10:05
> There are certain situations that pop me into panic mode too. I used to be able to counter my negative self-talk, but now I find it makes no difference. Once I'm going, I'm gone. Does anyone have any ideas about stopping emotional acceleration when logic isn't enough?
That happened to me last weekend when I went to a local art show. It was really crowded and hot and I started to lose it. I exused myself, went away from the crowd, and stared at the water (this was an outside show) for about 15 minutes. I looked at the water and thought about how it is always changing, always flowing, and I could let the panic flow over me too. Much to my surprise, it worked. I didn't think it would at all, but physically removing myself and doing a bit of meditation actually brought me back down.
I was astounded at myself.
rainyday
Posted by karen_kay on April 22, 2004, at 9:49:41
In reply to Thoughts vs. emotions, posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 9:10:05
i stop what i'm doing, i take a few (or a hundred, how ever many i need) deep breaths and i positive self talk. i remember all the times i've been in situations such as this one where i thought to myself, 'there you go, you've done it this time. you're screwed.' and somehow i've managed to come out of it. and i tell myself, 'it isn't as bad as your mind is making this out to be. this is just a reaction you are having to the stress you are putting yourself through. take deep breaths, in and out. and you are wonderful karen. once you get through this, you'll be back to walking through the grass and swinging on swing sets, and walking the dog, and picking flowers from the university campus, and flirting with your porfessors, and laughing about every little thing that no one else finds funny. you just have to make it through this. and tomorrow, or perhaps next week, this won't seem like such a big deal after all. in fact, perhaps next week even, you'll be laughing about your reaction to this. so, calm down dear, go do what needs to be done, as you know you can and will get it done, and remember that even though every one else in this world loves and (and they surely do) you love you the most and that's what's important. you can do it girlie, so take a few more deep breaths and go kick a$$!!"
usually i say something similar to that. who needs logic when you're your own biggest fan? but, remembering how i got through past situations and got through them well helps me make it through ones that are in the present. not recalling them, but remembering that they aren't a big deal now, as i seemed to think they would be at the time. also remembering that there are people who love me (and it's ok to pretend (and am i really pretending i ask) that everyone loves me too if it gets me through) that's what i usually do. it may or may not help you, but it works wonders for me...
Posted by Tootercat on April 22, 2004, at 11:24:53
In reply to I hate being human, posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
E!
Oh my God! What were you here in my head when I got dressed down a few weeks ago????? Boy can I relate. I have been going through my own "e" ticket ride since November (when I separated from my husband)and could not seem to refocus on my job. It was a whole lot easier to have personal calls, play computer games, come in here...well it didn't go unnoticed. I was warned not once but twice that I better get back to doing my job and give them a full days work! I had multiple feelings: fear, shame, guilt, anger (at getting caught mostly)and pouted at first and copped an attitude towards my other coworkers. I cried and looked on the internet for other jobs (I've been here 25 years!) and then got more scared and then got honest. I owed them and apology and my committment to giving them my best. I owed myself an apology for getting even angrier at myself and making myself feel worse. I forgave myself for being human and told myself that I am not "bad". I do have to be aware of when I am drifting and get up and regroup. I have learned some important things about myself one of which is that I need to be given direction and priorities or I spin my wheels. (like right now so I better finish this and get back to work!)
don't beat yourself up! That only makes you more of a victim and gives you an excuse to keep repeating that which makes you crazy.
You are NOT alone!
Hugs,
Toots
Posted by Penny on April 22, 2004, at 12:02:06
In reply to I hate being human, posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
I COMPLETELY understand what you are saying...I do the SAME thing ALL THE TIME. I think this is my therapist's favorite subject matter!!!
It's been so bad for me that it affects all the areas of my life in a terrible way. Especially with work - b/c I make a mistake that I am afraid to own up to, then I try to hide b/c I can't handle being confronted about the mistake. Fear and negative self-thought rules me.
My T says it doesn't have to be this way. And I do believe (knock on wood) I am making progress. But it's extremely difficult all the same.
And I am *still* beating myself up over things I did YEARS ago - even mistakes I made as a child! I just can't seem to let them go. I don't know why...
Anyway, EtktRide - whine on, all you need to. I hope you are able to conquer this.
P
Posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 20:22:51
In reply to Re: Thoughts vs. emotions » Ilene, posted by rainyday on April 22, 2004, at 9:20:27
> > There are certain situations that pop me into panic mode too. I used to be able to counter my negative self-talk, but now I find it makes no difference. Once I'm going, I'm gone. Does anyone have any ideas about stopping emotional acceleration when logic isn't enough?
>
> That happened to me last weekend when I went to a local art show. It was really crowded and hot and I started to lose it. I exused myself, went away from the crowd, and stared at the water (this was an outside show) for about 15 minutes. I looked at the water and thought about how it is always changing, always flowing, and I could let the panic flow over me too. Much to my surprise, it worked. I didn't think it would at all, but physically removing myself and doing a bit of meditation actually brought me back down.
>
> I was astounded at myself.
> rainyday
>
>
That is astounding. Were you ever able to do it before? What do you think would have happened if you hadn't been able to remove yourself?
Posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 20:27:36
In reply to Re: Thoughts vs. emotions » Ilene, posted by karen_kay on April 22, 2004, at 9:49:41
> i stop what i'm doing, i take a few (or a hundred, how ever many i need) deep breaths and i positive self talk.
If I believed my positive self talk I wouldn't be here!
i remember all the times i've been in situations such as this one where i thought to myself, 'there you go, you've done it this time. you're screwed.' and somehow i've managed to come out of it.
I either think of the ones where I didn't come out of it, or I feel stupid and ashamed because of the way I let myself feel.
Posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 8:26:14
In reply to Re: Thoughts vs. emotions » rainyday, posted by Ilene on April 22, 2004, at 20:22:51
If I couldn't have removed myself physically to meditate and calm down, I would have had to leave altogether and the day would have been ruined. I let those panic modes consume me with guilt and shame. I have xanax to take but I feel like that is "giving in". Clearly if I was able to get out of the panic attack last Saturday, I should be able to eventually do it anywhere. At the moment, it does seem beyond my abilities. I have a particularly hard time dealing with it at work, where I have cried too many times to mention. My p-doc thinks that working is the best thing I can do for myself, but it can be so difficult. Especially when you're in the "good days and bad days" place - I don't know which I am having until a panic attack up and wallops me out of the blue.
rainyday
Posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 11:38:42
In reply to Re: Thoughts vs. emotions » Ilene, posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 8:26:14
> If I couldn't have removed myself physically to meditate and calm down, I would have had to leave altogether and the day would have been ruined. I let those panic modes consume me with guilt and shame. I have xanax to take but I feel like that is "giving in".
I've read that panic attacks are more or less physiological, so you really need to take medication to control them. Despite knowing that, I feel like taking Klonopin for my GAD is "giving in", too. I don't feel the same way about ADs, though.
Clearly if I was able to get out of the panic attack last Saturday, I should be able to eventually do it anywhere.
I think you're setting yourself up for failure by thinking that way. I find that "shoulds" lead to feelings of guilt and shame when I can't accomplish what I think I ought to.
At the moment, it does seem beyond my abilities. I have a particularly hard time dealing with it at work, where I have cried too many times to mention. My p-doc thinks that working is the best thing I can do for myself, but it can be so difficult. Especially when you're in the "good days and bad days" place - I don't know which I am having until a panic attack up and wallops me out of the blue.
>I think your p-doc is right. I think I would be a lot better off if I could work. I'm very lonely and feel bitter about getting a degree and then getting too sick to work.
Posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 13:25:36
In reply to Re: Thoughts vs. emotions » rainyday, posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 11:38:42
I am terrified of being fired for poor job performance. Some days I have to go home because I can't stop crying. There is one person in the office who can't say ANYTHING to me without me crying. We keep all communications very superficial now, but if we veer into work-related issues, I tear right up. They have all been extremely accomodating for all my doctors' appointments. When I have to leave, it is a burden on the whole office because I am at the front reception. I don't exactly trust that I won't lose this job, because I have been fired 4 times before and in retrospect, they were all performance related issues where I overracted to criticism or more accurately, perceived criticism.
I feel like I am holding myself together with spit and elastic bands.
So work is a blessing and a curse for me. It takes my mind somewhat off my illness, yet I am constantly conscious of how it interferes with my work.
rainyday.
Posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 13:41:55
In reply to Working and crying » Ilene, posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 13:25:36
> I am terrified of being fired for poor job performance. Some days I have to go home because I can't stop crying. There is one person in the office who can't say ANYTHING to me without me crying. We keep all communications very superficial now, but if we veer into work-related issues, I tear right up. They have all been extremely accomodating for all my doctors' appointments. When I have to leave, it is a burden on the whole office because I am at the front reception. I don't exactly trust that I won't lose this job, because I have been fired 4 times before and in retrospect, they were all performance related issues where I overracted to criticism or more accurately, perceived criticism.
>
> I feel like I am holding myself together with spit and elastic bands.
>
> So work is a blessing and a curse for me. It takes my mind somewhat off my illness, yet I am constantly conscious of how it interferes with my work.
>
> rainyday.I hate knowing that other people are depending on me. It can increase my anxiety to the point where it's hard to function.
Have you ever tried taking something like Klonopin on a regular basis, instead of Xanax? Maybe it would help you level out.
I used to find yoga classes relaxing. After my father died they made me anxious because I got terribly self-conscious. I might try taking them again, as I'm feeling a little better.
Work related criticism used to be a terror for me. We've been a one-income family for years, so now I wouldn't be as terrified of losing a job (assuming I could get one) as I used to be, because we wouldn't be dependent on my income. I think it would be hard, though. Still, I'd like to use my education and have some social interaction.
I.
Posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 14:00:51
In reply to Re: Working and crying » rainyday, posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 13:41:55
I started taking yoga at the beginning of this year. I was doing really well (I did my first ever handstand!!!), but, as with all physical activities, I have talked myself out of it for the past 2 weeks.
I'm just in a blue funk.
Is Klonopin a benzo? My p-doc reluctantly put me on xanax as I have a healthy history of addiction tendencies.
Also, I had about a week where I was in a hypomanic state, and this is my crash time. I am grateful for this job, but today it really feels like it is not worth the effort it takes to put in my 8 hours. Not working isn't an option as we have 2 mortgages at the moment.
(It's lovely "talking" with you - you're very compassionate!)
Posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 15:22:43
In reply to Re: Working and crying » Ilene, posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 14:00:51
> I started taking yoga at the beginning of this year. I was doing really well (I did my first ever handstand!!!), but, as with all physical activities, I have talked myself out of it for the past 2 weeks.
>That's amazing! You must have a talent for yoga. I am unlikely to ever do a handstand, even if I get back into yoga, because I have hand and arm problems.
I used to swim 2 or 3 times a week to stay in shape. I have problems with my feet, too, so swimming is one of the few aerobic exercises I could do. It was always something of a struggle, because I'm not exactly athletic, but I was proud of myself for doing it. I was getting sicker and sicker--it felt like I was getting the flu every week--and gradually gave it up. The "flu" turned out to be chronic fatigue syndrome. I could probably start exercising again if I kept my heart rate down (sounds like a contradiction, I know) but I'm too depressed to make that commitment.
> I'm just in a blue funk.
>
> Is Klonopin a benzo? My p-doc reluctantly put me on xanax as I have a healthy history of addiction tendencies.
>Yes, Klonopin is a benzo. My p-doc said its addiction potential is over-rated, but I suppose it's still there. It can take the edge off my anxiety. For a while I was taking it every day, but I don't use it quite as often now. I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not.
> Also, I had about a week where I was in a hypomanic state, and this is my crash time. I am grateful for this job, but today it really feels like it is not worth the effort it takes to put in my 8 hours. Not working isn't an option as we have 2 mortgages at the moment.
>Not working is stressful in its own way.
> (It's lovely "talking" with you - you're very compassionate!)Thank you. It's actually a little embarrassing to "hear" that. I have a hard time with compliments.
I.
Posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 15:54:24
In reply to Re: Working and crying » rainyday, posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 15:22:43
The good news is that the work day is almost over. About a half hour more and I can leave and cry in my car on the way home. I am a very careful driver when I am crying.
Being able to post here during the day has really helped.
Ilene, I have heard that CFS is extremely debilitating. How do you cope? Is there treatment available?
Take care,
rainyday
Posted by Ilene on April 23, 2004, at 19:04:42
In reply to Re: Working and crying, posted by rainyday on April 23, 2004, at 15:54:24
> Ilene, I have heard that CFS is extremely debilitating. How do you cope? Is there treatment available?
>There seems to be more than one "flavor" of CFS. SDJeff also has it, but his seems to be more or less constant, while mine has definite triggers.
My type seems to be caused by a problem with my autonomic nervous system--the part of the nervous system that controls blood pressure, heart rate, sweating, etc. My blood pressure and heart rate tend to be low, I often have dizzy spells when I stand up and I get light-headed, weak, and fuzzy-minded when I over-exert myself or get too hot because my blood pressure drops. The things that make my blood pressure drop (heat, exertion, stress, and anxiety) trigger CFS flare-ups, which feel much like the flu. Symptoms include sore throat, swollen glands, headache, muscle aches, fatigue, stomach problems, and confusion or fogginess/inability to concentrate.
Lately I've felt tired in between flare-ups. I don't know if that's from depression, deconditioning, slow heart rate/low blood pressure, or CFS.
There is very little in the way of treatment. I take drug called Florinef, which is usually used to treat an adrenal malfunction called Addison's disease. It's supposed to make me retain salt and water in my system so my blood pressure is higher. I've noticed I can take hot showers again. I *love* hot showers.
Coping is difficult, but my depression is a bigger problem than the CFS. Once I figured out the triggers I did okay for a while. My father died a year ago, and that made everything worse because I was so stressed.
I finally got a doctor who probably understands CFS as well as anyone. He says many patients get better. (Unfortunately I'm moving cross country in a few weeks.) He's also Laura Hillenbrand's doctor (author of Sea Biscuit). She has what sounds like a very bad case of CFS.
I.
Posted by noa on April 23, 2004, at 20:08:24
In reply to I hate being human, posted by EtktRide on April 22, 2004, at 1:28:18
WOW--I can relate to this in a big way.
Posted by EtktRide on April 23, 2004, at 20:55:43
In reply to Re: I hate being human » EtktRide, posted by noa on April 23, 2004, at 20:08:24
I am so grateful to everyone who said they could relate to my post. It makes me feel like I am not alone in my craziness.
Thank you SO much.
This is the end of the thread.
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