![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
I've been reading and writing on this board now for a few months. It has helped me tremendously in so many ways. From someone who has an extremely difficult time connecting, this is as close as I've come, until the last month or so.
Aside from a very few people, I feel that I have been discarded as useless to most of the people here.
I know I'm not witty, or even very well spoken. Being a sweet person doesn't cut it, but that's all I know how to be; I can't help it; I've never been anything else. And it's never been good enough for most people. I don't think of being "sweet" as a great quality; for someone like me, who longs to have some "attitude" and just plain isn't capable, I see myself as socially retarded. But I have always been as honest as I know how to be, even if my views occasionally get distorted. I'm not fake.
I thank ALL of you who have given me the chance to befriend you, even if it didn't take you long to figure out what a seemingly shallow, dumb, goody-two shoes or whatever you think I am that you are just not interested in.
I'm not into dramatic exits, yet it is the only way I have ever been able to have any kind of closure in my life.
When I left my first husband, I just walked out.
When I left my abusive boyfriend, I just walked out. When I quit my unbearable job, I just walked out.I tried for 4 years with the first, 3 1/2 years with the second, and almost a year with the last, so I don't consider myself a quitter.
But as dumb as I might come across, this woman knows when to walk away.
I don't blame anyone here, just myself. I just don't have what it takes to maintain any kind of relationship, except the one with my husband (I don't know how we've made it together 9 years already - it's a miracle!).
You all are a wonderful bunch of highly intelligent, gifted, witty people. Even though you are all dealing with psychological issues, you are so uniquely special and so well spoken and smart.
If I can't even get people to take me seriously anonymously, boy do I have problems.I'm not looking for attention or pity. Please don't bother responding as such. It would be a waste of time.
I was somehow hoping to connect with someone enough to have an e-mail friendship. I promise I wouldn't tell anyone else so you wouldn't have to be embarrassed to admit it to anyone else. You see, I am the kind of person that people are nice to when no one else is around. I'm the one that people mock because I make such an easy target - I don't fight back. Don't tell me I can - I CAN'T FIGHT BACK. I can't be something I'm not. All I know how to be nice. What a wimp. What a boring, mindless wimp I am.......
If you were to meet me in person you would probably roll your eyes. Trust me.....Should I stay or should I go?
Self hatred is all I know
No one can give me the elusive gift
And I just can't seem to catch the drift
Posted by Greg on May 14, 2003, at 17:09:08
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
WG,
I've been told by others that I tend to be sickeningly sweet in my posts, passing out lots of hugs and the like. Not very manly I guess. And as a recovering alcoholic (over 13 years) I tend to ramble when I write and I lot of the time I don't make much sense. But you know what? I am who I am, and so are you. From what I've read of you, you seem to be good people. I really hope you don't find the need to change who you are just to "fit in". You'd be doing yourself such a disservice if you did. You're fine just the way you are. There's lots of people here who have an amazing gift for the written word, but there's some (like me) who don't. That's why I don't post much, but I love to read everyone else. And I've made a few of the dearest friends here, like Tina and Shar and Coral and Nikki and so on.....
I know exactly what you're feeling, and if you don't mind, I'll post to you. We "sweet" people need to stick together :)
Hugs,
Greg> I've been reading and writing on this board now for a few months. It has helped me tremendously in so many ways. From someone who has an extremely difficult time connecting, this is as close as I've come, until the last month or so.
> Aside from a very few people, I feel that I have been discarded as useless to most of the people here.
> I know I'm not witty, or even very well spoken. Being a sweet person doesn't cut it, but that's all I know how to be; I can't help it; I've never been anything else. And it's never been good enough for most people. I don't think of being "sweet" as a great quality; for someone like me, who longs to have some "attitude" and just plain isn't capable, I see myself as socially retarded. But I have always been as honest as I know how to be, even if my views occasionally get distorted. I'm not fake.
> I thank ALL of you who have given me the chance to befriend you, even if it didn't take you long to figure out what a seemingly shallow, dumb, goody-two shoes or whatever you think I am that you are just not interested in.
> I'm not into dramatic exits, yet it is the only way I have ever been able to have any kind of closure in my life.
> When I left my first husband, I just walked out.
> When I left my abusive boyfriend, I just walked out. When I quit my unbearable job, I just walked out.
>
> I tried for 4 years with the first, 3 1/2 years with the second, and almost a year with the last, so I don't consider myself a quitter.
> But as dumb as I might come across, this woman knows when to walk away.
> I don't blame anyone here, just myself. I just don't have what it takes to maintain any kind of relationship, except the one with my husband (I don't know how we've made it together 9 years already - it's a miracle!).
> You all are a wonderful bunch of highly intelligent, gifted, witty people. Even though you are all dealing with psychological issues, you are so uniquely special and so well spoken and smart.
> If I can't even get people to take me seriously anonymously, boy do I have problems.
>
> I'm not looking for attention or pity. Please don't bother responding as such. It would be a waste of time.
>
> I was somehow hoping to connect with someone enough to have an e-mail friendship. I promise I wouldn't tell anyone else so you wouldn't have to be embarrassed to admit it to anyone else. You see, I am the kind of person that people are nice to when no one else is around. I'm the one that people mock because I make such an easy target - I don't fight back. Don't tell me I can - I CAN'T FIGHT BACK. I can't be something I'm not. All I know how to be nice. What a wimp. What a boring, mindless wimp I am.......
> If you were to meet me in person you would probably roll your eyes. Trust me.....
>
> Should I stay or should I go?
> Self hatred is all I know
> No one can give me the elusive gift
> And I just can't seem to catch the drift
>
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 14, 2003, at 17:15:08
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
> If you were to meet me in person you would probably roll your eyes. Trust me.....
------------------What's got you bothered, WorryGirl? I don't think you've proven yourself to be so horrible. I like your postings. They're genuine, and you.
Posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 17:25:21
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
Wow!
I guess I haven't been hanging around here enough to understand what prompted this. I have been here long enough, however, to know that there are many people, myself included, who have felt a sense of rejection on this Board at one time or another.
I, too, struggle with relationship issues, which for me means that very few of my non-cyber contacts even know about my struggles with depresseion. When I first discovered this site, it was such a wonderful revelation to find that there were lots of people who experienced what I did. Participation here seemed to relieve me from those feelings of isolation that are present for any depressed person but even worse for someone who tries to hide it from family and friends. AS time went on, I discovered additional benefits to Board participation. Writing about my depression and reading the posts of others made me feel much more comfortable with the subject and more accepting of my illness (ocassionally anyway). Eventually my participation here helped me find the words to use in speaking about it to others. I don't do this much, but I have come clean with a few friends. It doesn't mean I burden them with my depression, but just that it's easier for me to be around them when I am depressed, and I worry at little less about whether they're going to take it the wrong way when I do my periodic disappearing act. Also I think writing about my experiences here and reading about the experiences of others has probably helped reinforce some of the things I've worked on in therapy. It certainly gets me to think about things that come up in therapy a bit more carefully. And yes, I have formed what I consider to be some pretty good friendships here - and there are a few people that I email on a pretty regular basis. But I was here for a very long time before those friendships developed.
As with anything, participation here can be a mixed bag. If you get too wrapped up here, you're inevitably going to feel stressed in some way by the periodic blow-ups that occur. I've gotten pretty upset over things that have happened here and from time to time I just need to take a break. Also I've learned how to avoid certain types of posts or certain posters or threads that are likely to upset me. I generally do better when I can manage to stay above the fray. There is also the problem that people you value will come and go, sometimes without explanation. Also, my therapist sometimes says she wishes I would bring some issues to her before I bring them to the Board. She has felt in the past that I processed and filtered things too much so by the time she found out about them, I had pretty much worked everything out. And at times I've thought I worked too hard at my cyber relationships and ignored my non-cyber friends. I don't think anyone here should substitute cyber friends for friends you know and see and do things with. You may need both, but in any case you probably need the latter.
I guess what it boils down to is that the Board cannot and will not be everything you want at all times. There will be periods when it serves you well and probably others where, for whatever reason, you may feel it does you more harm than good. I think it's worked better for me to be grateful for what it can offer me, but not too disappointed when it doesn't deliver what I'd like. It doesn't mean you won't be hurt as you are now, but just that maybe you can rebound a little better next time. In other words, if you don't give up on us, we can't and won't give up on you.
Mair
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 14, 2003, at 17:15:08
> > If you were to meet me in person you would probably roll your eyes. Trust me.....
> ------------------
>
> What's got you bothered, WorryGirl? I don't think you've proven yourself to be so horrible. I like your postings. They're genuine, and you.Hi Eddie,
I wasn't referring to you at all. I guess I'm feeling down because I feel so disconnected where I live. I wrote a post about a so-called friend, and I'm sensing the downhill ride already.
I thought I was making a friend or two among another group of women, and asked the women for her phone number and casually mentioned us taking our kids to the zoo, and she looked at me as if I belonged in the zoo, and took my # in that same way women do when strange men give them their #s, after which they quickly dispose of it in the garbage can (if they're nice enough to even take it).
I thought I was connecting with a few people here, but so many don't even bother responding to my posts, even when they are directed at them. These are people who seemed fun to chat about issues with; and these very same people continue to chat about the same kind of issues with other people. I can tell from reading many of the posts that these people have formed an e-mail friendship outside of this board (don't know exactly how that's done without revealing the address to everyone).
These are really nice, smart, often wise people, who, after helping me (cause I appreciated their responses so much), I guess have decided that I'm not interesting enough to converse with. But I miss those brief one-on-one exchanges. I miss them.... I don't want to name names - maybe some of them feel just like I do; maybe some have stopped caring; maybe they're just bored and tired. But I miss them.
Am I repeating myself too much? If I am, I'm sorry - I have a bad habit of doing that. I compulsively dwell on the same kind of stuff. Going to therapy didn't help at all with that or my social anxiety.
Eddie, I have days where I feel so good that I don't think I'll ever need this board again.
But I'm afraid that I am developing a dependency on this board. It's so cool that no one knows my real name or what I look like.
Maybe I've come across like my life is better than it often is; maybe I come across like my life isn't as good as it appears it is; I don't know.
These people owe me nothing, and I love them all, I really do. I don't want to sound sappy, but there is not one person here that I couldn't find something admirable about, except for myself.
You are kind, so kind, and I cry as I write this, because I've been kicked around so much most of my life, that now, when I'm not, and I want to sit back and enjoy life, no one is interested.
Have you ever cried off and on for days? Have you ever gone off on a rage over nothing? Have you ever felt that if you faded from this world, aside from your family, no one would notice? Have you ever felt like whatever you said, or how you said it was done in the worst way possible?When I have my "up" days, I skip around happily, while everyone gives me funny looks because I'm so upbeat. I am not kidding when I tell you that I've been asked what drug I'm on (and not in a kidding way). I have told people I don't take drugs, and they're looking at me like, "Yeah, right". At this time, it doesn't bother me, but then when I think back, and no one has called me or come over to talk to me I quickly spiral into my black mood.
I have no balance.
I'm a sappily happy Peter Pan or a sobbing, brooding shadow.
If the good moments weren't so great, I might have left this world already.
I know I'm not the only one who feels like this, but it seems like most people don't have the lack of social skills to go along with it.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:47:28
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Greg on May 14, 2003, at 17:09:08
> WG,
>
> I've been told by others that I tend to be sickeningly sweet in my posts, passing out lots of hugs and the like. Not very manly I guess. And as a recovering alcoholic (over 13 years) I tend to ramble when I write and I lot of the time I don't make much sense. But you know what? I am who I am, and so are you. From what I've read of you, you seem to be good people. I really hope you don't find the need to change who you are just to "fit in". You'd be doing yourself such a disservice if you did. You're fine just the way you are. There's lots of people here who have an amazing gift for the written word, but there's some (like me) who don't. That's why I don't post much, but I love to read everyone else. And I've made a few of the dearest friends here, like Tina and Shar and Coral and Nikki and so on.....
>
> I know exactly what you're feeling, and if you don't mind, I'll post to you. We "sweet" people need to stick together :)
>
> Hugs,
> Greg
>
Hi Greg,
Thanks for being so, uh, sweet! Among other things, I like sweet stuff (sweet genuine people, sweet foods, and sweet deals).I'm feeling better already. Just responding is helping to relieve my despondency.
I admire you for your dedication to stay away from alcohol. If I wasn't addicted to food (I'm bulimic), I know I would be an alcoholic. I binge drink very occasionally, but food seems to be #1.
I feel silly about how dependent I realize I've become on this board. My need for approval always looms in the background of my life.
Thanks, sweetie. My first major crush's name was Greg. He was beautiful. I was in the swimming pool my freshman year and there he was, with those muscles rippling and the blue eyes twinkling. Isn't it funny how we like (or dislike) certain names because of the memories we associate with them?
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 17:48:30
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
I think what you're feeling is what we all feel from time to time, or even consistently. :)
I know there are times when I write a post, then Mair or Noa or Tabitha or Gabbi or Shar, or one of the many sensitive intuitive and clever posters come after me and write what I wish I had written. And my post seems like a stupid waste of server space. I am so embarassed at posting drivel.
Or I'll be the thread ender. Or worst of all, someone will be offended by something I say. And I'll feel like the most miserable bad girl to ever draw breath. I have a rather quick bad girl trigger.
I think those feelings tend to be common with those of us who are sensitive to nuance. Sometimes we're a bit too sensitive, if you know what I mean. And it's also a part of our conditions. Depression leads to negative feelings about ourselves. Anxiety causes us to judge ourselves harshly. But those feelings don't necessarily reflect reality.
As to whether you should stay or go? I certainly hope you stay. But I can only share with you what I have decided to think, after an inordinate number of therapy sessions devoted to this board.
There may be posters who have something wiser and wittier to say about any or all subjects than what I might contribute. But that doesn't mean that what I say isn't valuable anyway. It's not a competition, and my post isn't necessarily a waste of server space. It's not possible to know what comment will touch or move someone, or make them think.
If I get no responses to what I say, it's not necessarily because I was so idiotic that no one can possibly respond. People might be caught up in their own problems, the topic might be exhausted, or my post might not have sparked anything new to say. And that's ok.
When I'm feeling thick and stupid, when I'm having problems myself, the words may have a hard time working their way through the sludge of my mind. Maybe I can't contribute at all, or maybe a no message one line post of support is all I can offer. Maybe a thick headed stupid post is all I can offer. But if I offer it with the intent to help, or to support, maybe that intent will come through, and maybe that intent will be enough in itself. That's an important one for me, because sometimes my mind feels quick and free, but sometimes it feels thick and dull. I tend to judge myself harshly. Maybe my judgements are correct, maybe they aren't.
Finally, if I post something that probably would have been better left unposted, I apologize. If I post something that is misinterpreted, I try to figure out what happened. It doesn't necessarily mean I've been bad.
Now I'm not saying that any of these apply to your actual posts, but perhaps they apply to how you think about your posts. I'm just describing what I've decided to feel about how I see my own posts.
And you know, sweetness is every bit as wonderful a quality as "attitude" is. Sweet is valuable. Sweet is worthwhile. If you can claim sweetness for yourself, you should hold your head high and be proud. It's not that common a quality, you know.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:02:33
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Greg on May 14, 2003, at 17:09:08
Greg, Who on earth told you such a thing about your posts? Let me at 'em, let me at 'em!!!!
Your posts seem to have just the right touch to me. They seem like you. And you is pretty good. Everyone has a different style of posting. And each style is enjoyable in its own way.
But why would anyone want to make you feel self conscious about your posts? And why would you trust the judgement of someone who would want to make you feel self conscious? (Sorry if I've just insulted your best friend or something.)
Please don't let negative judgements of your posts, your own or someone else's, keep you from sharing yourself on the board. It's too precious a gift to let embarassment keep you from sharing.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:02:37
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by mair on May 14, 2003, at 17:25:21
> Wow!
>
> I guess I haven't been hanging around here enough to understand what prompted this. I have been here long enough, however, to know that there are many people, myself included, who have felt a sense of rejection on this Board at one time or another.
>
> I, too, struggle with relationship issues, which for me means that very few of my non-cyber contacts even know about my struggles with depresseion. When I first discovered this site, it was such a wonderful revelation to find that there were lots of people who experienced what I did. Participation here seemed to relieve me from those feelings of isolation that are present for any depressed person but even worse for someone who tries to hide it from family and friends. AS time went on, I discovered additional benefits to Board participation. Writing about my depression and reading the posts of others made me feel much more comfortable with the subject and more accepting of my illness (ocassionally anyway). Eventually my participation here helped me find the words to use in speaking about it to others. I don't do this much, but I have come clean with a few friends. It doesn't mean I burden them with my depression, but just that it's easier for me to be around them when I am depressed, and I worry at little less about whether they're going to take it the wrong way when I do my periodic disappearing act. Also I think writing about my experiences here and reading about the experiences of others has probably helped reinforce some of the things I've worked on in therapy. It certainly gets me to think about things that come up in therapy a bit more carefully. And yes, I have formed what I consider to be some pretty good friendships here - and there are a few people that I email on a pretty regular basis. But I was here for a very long time before those friendships developed.
>
> As with anything, participation here can be a mixed bag. If you get too wrapped up here, you're inevitably going to feel stressed in some way by the periodic blow-ups that occur. I've gotten pretty upset over things that have happened here and from time to time I just need to take a break. Also I've learned how to avoid certain types of posts or certain posters or threads that are likely to upset me. I generally do better when I can manage to stay above the fray. There is also the problem that people you value will come and go, sometimes without explanation. Also, my therapist sometimes says she wishes I would bring some issues to her before I bring them to the Board. She has felt in the past that I processed and filtered things too much so by the time she found out about them, I had pretty much worked everything out. And at times I've thought I worked too hard at my cyber relationships and ignored my non-cyber friends. I don't think anyone here should substitute cyber friends for friends you know and see and do things with. You may need both, but in any case you probably need the latter.
>
> I guess what it boils down to is that the Board cannot and will not be everything you want at all times. There will be periods when it serves you well and probably others where, for whatever reason, you may feel it does you more harm than good. I think it's worked better for me to be grateful for what it can offer me, but not too disappointed when it doesn't deliver what I'd like. It doesn't mean you won't be hurt as you are now, but just that maybe you can rebound a little better next time. In other words, if you don't give up on us, we can't and won't give up on you.
>
> Mair
I've already read your response three times, just to let it really sink in. Very wise words...
As I told Greg, my need for approval is always lurking around in the background of my life.
I haven't given up on this board. I feel like I'm being unfair to the ones who have responded, even when I felt stupid.I remember at least two people, who to my knowledge haven't posted on this board in a while. I loved their posts; they really touched me, and while I realize they was going through issues that were too difficult to cure on this board, I miss them. I thought back and hoped I didn't unintentionally say anything that might have made them feel worse.
I have become dependent on these boards, I admit it. But they have helped more than they have hurt and I'm grateful for them.Just to let you know, I try like hell to appear "together" in the outside world, and don't go around looking for pity or talk about my emotional problems. Maybe opening up a little about that would help, if it was the right person. Every time I do share (in the outside world) I feel that I've been exploited in a way, and I regret it. I have a difficult time trusting people.
Thanks for not giving up on me!
XOXOXO
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:14:14
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
Worry Girl,
Wow. I am surprised that you feel so disconnected. To me you are a familiar "face" here! And I know I've liked reading what you have to say.
I personally, tend not to develop email relationships, but stick to the board.
But I do value your presence here. I think I've responded to things you say, but correct me if I'm wrong. Lately, I have been just trying to keep up with the reading and only respond when the response comes quickly. I feel badly because sometimes I want to respond to people, but feel like I'm not sure what to say, and want to mull it over, and then time goes by and the thread has moved on.
But I do see your name and see you as a "regular", a real part of this community.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:17:41
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
OK, your post to Eddie about the social circle situation (try saying those 3 words 5 times fast!) reminds me that I read that post, and wanted to respond. It was one of those that I felt I wanted to think about and was too tired at the time to say something coherently, and then I missed it when coming back to the board. I'm sorry.
Let me go read it again.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:24:34
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 17:48:30
You know, the variety in personalities and ways of looking at things and genuine takes on life and quirks and senses of humor and experiences, etc. etc. makes this interesting and worth reading!! If we were all the same, it would be boring. Don't think that there is the "right" thing to post. If there were, then this place would not be the rich exchange it is. How dull it would be to come and see one problem one "wise" answer and that is all. I LOVE how different people are. And all the quirks and POVs and unique ways that people express themselves.
You know, there have been times when I posted something and didn't get much response. So, I learned something to deal with that--I just post again! Maybe people were busy. Maybe another thread just happened to be more compelling that day for whatever reason. You can post again and say, "hey guys, I really could use your help on this!".
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:35:02
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 17:48:30
> I think what you're feeling is what we all feel from time to time, or even consistently. :)
>
> I know there are times when I write a post, then Mair or Noa or Tabitha or Gabbi or Shar, or one of the many sensitive intuitive and clever posters come after me and write what I wish I had written. And my post seems like a stupid waste of server space. I am so embarassed at posting drivel.I could add to your list many more - yourself, white rabbit, jyl, leeran, and so on. But you know, I have learned from these intelligent people even if they may not have learned much of value from me. So I choose to view reading their words as a gift. But when reading some of these inspiring words I feel compelled to respond to them, and I guess if I don't receive a response, I feel like a failure. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not, and for always responding to my posts (if you haven't I don't remember - you seem to be responsive to everyone, and that takes a lot of emotional/mental energy). And some of these wise people may not view me as a failure - I'm the one labelling myself, not them.
>
> Or I'll be the thread ender. Or worst of all, someone will be offended by something I say. And I'll feel like the most miserable bad girl to ever draw breath. I have a rather quick bad girl trigger.I couldn't imagine anyone being offended by you, but if you inadvertantly did, I'm sure the feathers didn't stay ruffled.
> I think those feelings tend to be common with those of us who are sensitive to nuance. Sometimes we're a bit too sensitive, if you know what I mean. And it's also a part of our conditions. Depression leads to negative feelings about ourselves. Anxiety causes us to judge ourselves harshly. But those feelings don't necessarily reflect reality.
>I know this is true. But my reality is based upon how other respond to me (or don't) or how I perceive it, whether it is accurate or not
I need to change my perception of reality. Will drugs do this?> As to whether you should stay or go? I certainly hope you stay. But I can only share with you what I have decided to think, after an inordinate number of therapy sessions devoted to this board.
>> There may be posters who have something wiser and wittier to say about any or all subjects than what I might contribute. But that doesn't mean that what I say isn't valuable anyway. It's not a competition, and my post isn't necessarily a waste of server space. It's not possible to know what comment will touch or move someone, or make them think.
>
> If I get no responses to what I say, it's not necessarily because I was so idiotic that no one can possibly respond. People might be caught up in their own problems, the topic might be exhausted, or my post might not have sparked anything new to say. And that's ok.
>
> When I'm feeling thick and stupid, when I'm having problems myself, the words may have a hard time working their way through the sludge of my mind. Maybe I can't contribute at all, or maybe a no message one line post of support is all I can offer. Maybe a thick headed stupid post is all I can offer. But if I offer it with the intent to help, or to support, maybe that intent will come through, and maybe that intent will be enough in itself. That's an important one for me, because sometimes my mind feels quick and free, but sometimes it feels thick and dull. I tend to judge myself harshly. Maybe my judgements are correct, maybe they aren't.
>
I feel that way, too.> Finally, if I post something that probably would have been better left unposted, I apologize. If I post something that is misinterpreted, I try to figure out what happened. It doesn't necessarily mean I've been bad.
>
> Now I'm not saying that any of these apply to your actual posts, but perhaps they apply to how you think about your posts. I'm just describing what I've decided to feel about how I see my own posts.
>
This does pretty much apply to my posts, as well.
I am hard on myself; most people probably are. If there's a heaven and I'm in it, do you know what I hope for?
Conversational wit and a superb singing voice. I could even sing and talk to myself and enjoy listening!> And you know, sweetness is every bit as wonderful a quality as "attitude" is. Sweet is valuable. Sweet is worthwhile. If you can claim sweetness for yourself, you should hold your head high and be proud. It's not that common a quality, you know.
I don't want you to get the idea that I'm all "sweetness and light". I have been a real b**** to my husband on occasion (because I feel so comfortable with him). But I have a hard time expressing my anger to others - I seem incapable of it, and if I were to, it would probably be very explosive and unpleasant. I think that people with "attitude" have mastered the ability to channel their anger into this attitude using appropriate wit and/or sarcasm when necessary.
When that song "Gotta Be" first came out I remember thinking that would be the perfect kind of person to be - the kind of person that song personifies. But maybe with just a little extra sugar on the top?Thanks again, Dinah. :)
I choose to stay, but may just do more reading than posting for a while after this thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:12
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:24:34
> You know, the variety in personalities and ways of looking at things and genuine takes on life and quirks and senses of humor and experiences, etc. etc. makes this interesting and worth reading!! If we were all the same, it would be boring. Don't think that there is the "right" thing to post. If there were, then this place would not be the rich exchange it is. How dull it would be to come and see one problem one "wise" answer and that is all. I LOVE how different people are. And all the quirks and POVs and unique ways that people express themselves.
>
> You know, there have been times when I posted something and didn't get much response. So, I learned something to deal with that--I just post again! Maybe people were busy. Maybe another thread just happened to be more compelling that day for whatever reason. You can post again and say, "hey guys, I really could use your help on this!".
Noa,
I have always appreciated your responses and I do remember you saying that you were going to do more reading for a while.
I haven't been referring to you necessarily, but I did wonder if maybe you had decided that I was a little too flaky or whatever to bother with.It takes a lot of effort to respond to everyone. I have felt that it was just too much to respond soon after at times.
I know I must have sounded like a crybaby. I wonder what it would take to get a group therapy session started in my area? There are none that I know of in this city that deal with social issues.
Thanks for considering me part of the group. From one who has been a welcomed part of very few groups it means a lot.
Take care
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
Hey there WorryGirl,
The other day, after reading your post about your neighbor situation, I wrote a mega-post to you and then ended up saving it on my desktop because I thought it was just too darned long.
Maybe I will post it . . . it was a doozy (because I felt bad about your situation and it reminded me of situations I've been in before).
I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
I think people are, by nature, self-involved. I mean, when you stop to think about it, who isn't? I know I am! Shoot, everyone is. We are, after all, in our own skin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Given everyone's own level of self-involvement it may come down to the fact that everyone is busy doing their own thing and isn't ever purposefully rejecting anyone else.
Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
I think I will post my mega-post to you before I go upstairs (it will follow this one), but first I want to say this - in the world of "message boards" it is easy to get caught up in an "act-react" mentality.
You (not "you" personally) write something that's close to your heart and it's kind of a risky action, putting yourself out on the limb (in your own writing) on a public message board. The flipside of any act is usually a re-act-ion, similar to what happens in a real life conversation. I say something, you answer back, I respond and it goes back and forth.
Some of that "act/reaction" DOES happen on message boards; however, message boards are unique in that they give people (such as myself) the luxury of walking away to do the laundry, answer the phone, take the dog out, etc. -
I may have every intention of responding to a post, but once I delete the notice from my inbox, or look at the message on the board and it changes "colors," it is oftentimes forgotten.
Additionally, there seem to be individuals of all ages, gender and locale posting here. Some age groups have more in common, some people from similar localities can, perhaps, relate to one another a bit better, etc.
To top it off, there are several people who have posted here for years and have naturally built up a lot of camaraderie. That shared history gives those folks a commonality that newcomers, such as myself and others, simply can't relate to because we haven't "done the time." That's just life. I guess if you stick around anywhere long enough you'll (not "you" - anyone) will start to fit in - I mean, look at the character of Cliff Claven on "Cheers."
Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
I don't know if any of this drivel I've written is of any use but I thought I would throw it into the mix.
I hope you don't become discouraged and leave. It's one thing to leave because you're too busy or other things are going on in your "real" life - but I'm always saddened when people take off from any message board (not just this one) out of discouragement/disillusionment.
I'll post the long dissertation after I give it one more read-thru.
Best regards,
Lee
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:48:49
In reply to Re: Why? » Dinah, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:35:02
> I know this is true. But my reality is based upon how other respond to me (or don't) or how I perceive it, whether it is accurate or not
I need to change my perception of reality. Will drugs do this?No, drugs won't. But therapy can. Are you currently in therapy? (Forgive me if I've asked this before, I'm feeling better this evening, but I've definitely been in the stupid thick headed mode lately.) Therapy is designed to help with the relationship type things you're talking about. Distorted perceptions are the very stuff of CBT, and while I can't tolerate CBT straight up, it's not bad when mixed with some interpersonal therapy. Life is hard when you look to others to how to see yourself. Not that I've managed to get past that, mind you. But I'm working on it.
As I have said, therapy has played a very important role in my life on this board. Countless scheduled and emergency sessions have been spent with a sheaf of posts in my hand, tears coursing down my cheeks. :( If you look back at the archives (and please don't - it's just too darn humiliating) you'll see that I've had more than my share of rocky times here. And since this is my main social interaction, it's only natural that all my issues have gotten played out here from time to time. It's not all better, and I still have my moments. But therapy has helped me, and continues to help me, immensely.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:52:24
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:17:41
YES, Noa, you described it exactly:
" . . . reminds me that I read that post, and wanted to respond."
That happens to me quite often - and then, there are times when I actually think I have posted because I have written 90% of the post and never got it finished.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:54:57
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:48:49
"And since this is my main social interaction"
Hey, Dinah, here lately, mine, too! I don't have to say "pardon me, what did you say?" on the board (I'm in need of a hearing aid in my right ear - but I want to wait until I can justify the expense of one of the digital models, which may be never).
Posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
WorryGirl - methinks you have a touch of the manic depressive in you. If so...welcome, welcome to our dark little club. Don't be put off by the opium-den atmosphere - take off your shoes, sit down and relax.
You under-estimate your gifts. Your writing is clear and intelligent. You scoff at being "sweet",
which means you have the capacity to care deeply about someone else. Which means that, in your correspondance, in the way you relate to others,
your conversation isn't the usual, "Mememememe and me, and did I tell you about me?" Don't ever let anyone convince you that caring for others is wrong, that you SHOULD be just as competitive and selfish as the next guy. This doesn't leave you defenseless in the rat race, because you don't have to BE in the rat race at all. Step aside, leave the race to the rats. You be sweet, girl.I don't always reply to everyone when they post to me BUT I always appreciate it, I really do, when someone takes the time to answer me. (Every once in awhile I do offend somebody - not too far back, somebody called me a bigot - but those posts are few and far between.) I get support and advice here, and try to give the same in return when I feel I have something to offer. Most importantly - I believe I posted this recently to someone, can't remember who - the act of writing itself is a healing process, as it allows you to organize those thoughts in your head. When someone replies with a kind word, that's a special bonus.
So don't cut yourself off from that! I can tell you, the way we see ourselves and the way others see us is quite different. We're not flat, one-dimensional beings, we're all multi-faceted as jewels, presenting different sides of ourself to others. This doesn't mean we're deceptive, just complex. For instance, my husband thinks I'm impossibly strange and probably quite mad. (And he does know how to push those buttons that set me off, quite right.) But not everybody has that opinion of me and I will no longer let him convince me that I'm some kind of freak because we're polar opposites...we might be very different, but that doesn't make ME wrong or wierd
or somehow inferior to him. Just different. Hallalujah for different.
-Gracie
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:46
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
> I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
>
Oh, Lee. I really think we must be related. Or maybe it's only child stuff. (Ok, I have a brother, but we didn't adopt him till I was ten and already an only child for too long to change.)> Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
>
Wow. I haven't had that perspective for a long time. As a kid, I would have it a fair amount. Does that mean I've gotten way too self involved?> Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
>
I've been wanting to compliment you on that skill for some time, Lee. You really are quite extraordinary in your ability to do that, and it shows in your posts.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:59:32
In reply to Re: Why? » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:52:24
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 19:01:43
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
> Hey there WorryGirl,
>
> The other day, after reading your post about your neighbor situation, I wrote a mega-post to you and then ended up saving it on my desktop because I thought it was just too darned long.
>
> Maybe I will post it . . . it was a doozy (because I felt bad about your situation and it reminded me of situations I've been in before).
>
> I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
>
> I think people are, by nature, self-involved. I mean, when you stop to think about it, who isn't? I know I am! Shoot, everyone is. We are, after all, in our own skin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Given everyone's own level of self-involvement it may come down to the fact that everyone is busy doing their own thing and isn't ever purposefully rejecting anyone else.
>
> Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
>
> I think I will post my mega-post to you before I go upstairs (it will follow this one), but first I want to say this - in the world of "message boards" it is easy to get caught up in an "act-react" mentality.
>
> You (not "you" personally) write something that's close to your heart and it's kind of a risky action, putting yourself out on the limb (in your own writing) on a public message board. The flipside of any act is usually a re-act-ion, similar to what happens in a real life conversation. I say something, you answer back, I respond and it goes back and forth.
>
> Some of that "act/reaction" DOES happen on message boards; however, message boards are unique in that they give people (such as myself) the luxury of walking away to do the laundry, answer the phone, take the dog out, etc. -
>
> I may have every intention of responding to a post, but once I delete the notice from my inbox, or look at the message on the board and it changes "colors," it is oftentimes forgotten.
>
> Additionally, there seem to be individuals of all ages, gender and locale posting here. Some age groups have more in common, some people from similar localities can, perhaps, relate to one another a bit better, etc.
>
> To top it off, there are several people who have posted here for years and have naturally built up a lot of camaraderie. That shared history gives those folks a commonality that newcomers, such as myself and others, simply can't relate to because we haven't "done the time." That's just life. I guess if you stick around anywhere long enough you'll (not "you" - anyone) will start to fit in - I mean, look at the character of Cliff Claven on "Cheers."
>
> Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
>
> I don't know if any of this drivel I've written is of any use but I thought I would throw it into the mix.
>
> I hope you don't become discouraged and leave. It's one thing to leave because you're too busy or other things are going on in your "real" life - but I'm always saddened when people take off from any message board (not just this one) out of discouragement/disillusionment.
>
> I'll post the long dissertation after I give it one more read-thru.
>
> Best regards,
>
> LeeHi Lee,
You are more than wonderful to have responded to this. You are so gifted verbally. Did you ever, when you were a little girl, see another little girl with a pretty coat, or hair, or whatever, and you were in such awe of them. You knew that you didn't have what they did, and didn't hate them for it, because you were too young to be envious in a hateful way. So whenever this little girl came around you would smile extra big, or give her the one cupcake your mom packed in your lunch just so you could maybe be around her for a few minutes?This is how I feel about people who have a way with words. It amazes me how gifted some people in at the art of conversation, or at writing.
On the sidelines, I will secretly listen while I'm knitting or blankly staring out the window. I listen to how they can take such a trivial, even bland subject, and captivate the others. It'a all in the tone, eyes and mannerisms, I think. You would think that I would somehow pick up these skills by watching. It's like I know what I should do, but when my moment comes I shrivel up or freakily invade.Conversationally, I don't know how you are, but your writing skills blow me away and I promise I don't hate you for it. To get a response from you means that I can briefly participate in the captivating spell your words cast. Gosh, I sound weird, don't I? Maybe it's said better by comparing you to the little girl with perfect ringlets - everyone wants to be near her.
You say you're a loner, though, so I know that you have experienced the isolation and frustration. You seem to be able to relay those feelings so well.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:06:13
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
"the act of writing itself is a healing process"
Amen. I wasn't the one who said it, but I sure as **** do agree with it, 100%!
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 19:23:26
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
> WorryGirl - methinks you have a touch of the manic depressive in you. If so...welcome, welcome to our dark little club. Don't be put off by the opium-den atmosphere - take off your shoes, sit down and relax.
>My sister is bipolar, and I always thought I had escaped it, but while living with my abusive boyfriend years ago I somehow may have learned to supress it. I showed signs when married the first time. I treated him badly at times, out of frustration for how badly his parents sometimes treated me. I shocked myself at how mean I could be to him, but so genuinely sweet to everyone else. Nobody else evoked those angry feelings. He took it meekly as I shoveled it out. The longer we were married the more enraged I felt.
> You under-estimate your gifts. Your writing is clear and intelligent. You scoff at being "sweet",
> which means you have the capacity to care deeply about someone else. Which means that, in your correspondance, in the way you relate to others,
> your conversation isn't the usual, "Mememememe and me, and did I tell you about me?" Don't ever let anyone convince you that caring for others is wrong, that you SHOULD be just as competitive and selfish as the next guy. This doesn't leave you defenseless in the rat race, because you don't have to BE in the rat race at all. Step aside, leave the race to the rats. You be sweet, girl.
>> I don't always reply to everyone when they post to me BUT I always appreciate it, I really do, when someone takes the time to answer me. (Every once in awhile I do offend somebody - not too far back, somebody called me a bigot - but those posts are few and far between.) I get support and advice here, and try to give the same in return when I feel I have something to offer. Most importantly - I believe I posted this recently to someone, can't remember who - the act of writing itself is a healing process, as it allows you to organize those thoughts in your head. When someone replies with a kind word, that's a special bonus.
>Well, this is a bonus. I've always appreciated your responses, and as I told Lee, you, too, have a gift with words (as do so many others). You each have your own special style and it works for you.
I think I remember reading that you once were into the Gothic lifestyle before it was really hip? I can see that in you, which is cool, but I also see a soft, sweet side that you may not show on the surface, but it's there in your words.
In the mid 80s I hung out with a girl who convinced me that my best look was black hair and pale skin. It wasn't truly gothic but I had people calling me Morticia or Elvira for a while!
> So don't cut yourself off from that! I can tell you, the way we see ourselves and the way others see us is quite different. We're not flat, one-dimensional beings, we're all multi-faceted as jewels, presenting different sides of ourself to others. This doesn't mean we're deceptive, just complex. For instance, my husband thinks I'm impossibly strange and probably quite mad. (And he does know how to push those buttons that set me off, quite right.) But not everybody has that opinion of me and I will no longer let him convince me that I'm some kind of freak because we're polar opposites...we might be very different, but that doesn't make ME wrong or wierd
> or somehow inferior to him. Just different. Hallalujah for different.
> -GracieI think different or strange is good! I know I've said this somewhere before, but as long as it isn't accompanied by super bad breath and/or b.o., I like weird.
Once, in a conversation with a woman who didn't like me, I said, "Well, I guess I'm just too weird". And she said, "Don't flatter yourself. It takes a few brain cells to be weird". That hurt!
I think it's my meekness that makes me appear dumb sometimes. Since I'm not that way with my husband he can't see it. He sees me as "different in a good way". He says that's why he fell in love with me. That was 8-9 years ago. I wonder if he still feels the same!
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:34:10
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:46
Awwww, Dinah, you are so sweet! And that's a good thing! And so are you WorryGirl, et. al.
And yes, I think we are closely related on the soul sisters branch (if you saw my long-*** post to WhiteRabbit you'll know what I mean - or what Brian Weiss means).
I've gotten to the point that I just shake my head and laugh at our similarities! I have a feeling you're in the Midwest (you don't have to say, of course!) - but that's where I fare from as well.
I just feel like I could ride in the tailwind on your therapy and be healed (considering the similarities I've seen).
Regarding you being self-involved? Absolutely not! You are the farthest thing from self-involved!
Listen, when my son was seven years old I didn't think these thoughts! I didn't have time! Like you, I did have these thoughts when I was a kid, but I went years without thinking anything like that.
However, now that my son is older (fifteen) and I "work" at home and I spend so much time alone I'm always having these mini-revelations. 99% of the time they are very self-absorbed revelations, like "my feet make me look like I'm ninety years old" or "should I surprise T. (my husband) and have my bellybutton pierced while he's gone?" (believe me, that's fleeting and it's never going to happen - LOL!).
One little exercise I like to do is remember how differently a place can look from my previous perceptions. i.e. We've lived in this town for almost four years. When I used to visit here, everything looked very different to me than it does now. I liken it to flipping those lenses like they use in an optometrist's office. My son has said that he does this as well. It's comforting (yet scary) to know that there's this being (the kiddo) who thinks and acts so much like I do . . .
I bet some of these feelings are quite universal (has anyone else ever done this?).
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.