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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on July 31, 2002, at 17:33:15
I need a reality check.
One of my colleagues has a secretary who suffered a breakdown, and slipped into a depression that rendered her pretty non-functional. This happened about 5 or 6 weeks ago and since then, her only communications to us have been that she can't work now and doesn't know when or if she will be able to return to work. We slide along very poorly with a series of very inadequate temps and finally my colleague, in some desperation, contacts his secretary and tells her that he's got to find someone to replace her. She writes us back that the timing of this letter was unfortunate, because she was just starting to feel that she could start to work again on a very parttime basis and build up over a period of weeks to almost fulltime. We meet with her and ask her for a very honest assessment of how prepared she is to come back to work. Of course she doesn't know. She can tell us that she still gets very depressed some days, suffers from pretty severe anxiety, and that she isn't sleeping and that although she now functions much better than before, the ADs she's been taking aren't working adequately and she is going to explore with her pdoc switching to a different AD. She also tells us that she likes her job and would like to come back, although not at the expense of her mental health.
My colleague feels very guilty because this is someone who has worked for him for 4 years. He asks me what I think about having her come back to work. My inclination is to tell him that I don't think it's a good idea because: 1) its a very stressful job which requires a full-time person; 2) it's a long commute for this person who is a single mother and she probably would be much better off with a job closer to where she lives; 3) She is very skilled in an area where there is a severe shortage of competent people so I know she is eminently employable, although maybe not at as much money as we were paying her; 4) in spite of this woman's basic competence, my colleague had job performance issues with her before the depression - I can't imagine that improving post-depression; 5) Her meds profile tells me that we have no way of really knowing whether she's going to find a mix very quickly that will enable her to work at more or less full steam; 6) my own history tells me that this woman is at the beginning of dealing with this illness and it's going to be a long and difficult road which may or may not result in her being able to handle this job, and 7) if she isn't really able to do her job fully and consistently, it will place an enormous burden on the remainder of our staff - her absence has already taken its toll on them.
When I first got depressed, my colleagues were not particularly sympathetic or accommodating although truthfully I never really clued them in to what was happening with me - they just knew that my production was way off. I resented the way I've been treated, but the reality is that there is no question but that my depression affected my work performance greatly even after I started getting alot better.
I of all people feel that i should know how to deal with this situation and make every attempt to be as accommodating as possible. I don't want to make this person feel worse when she's trying so hard to get better. I feel like a traitor for taking the position that I've taken. But I also think I'm right about this employee's ability to work effectively at this job.
Does it sound like I'm projecting too much of my own experience on this woman, that I'm assuming too much about her situation?
I would love some feedback.
Mair
Posted by kiddo on July 31, 2002, at 17:53:26
In reply to Am I Being Awful? (sorry long), posted by mair on July 31, 2002, at 17:33:15
Hi Mair-
Do you know what triggered the original breakdown? Was it perhaps work related?I assume she's on leave. Is there a way she can remain on leave, fill her position and then give her a job elsewhere in the company if/when she decides to return?
I think you may be too hard on yourself. If I were in your position, I'd mention 1, 4, 7; and if they know of your personal history then 5 and 6 would be alright.
What about the FMLA?
Hope something in there help :-)Kiddo
Posted by BarbaraCat on August 1, 2002, at 1:49:01
In reply to Am I Being Awful? (sorry long), posted by mair on July 31, 2002, at 17:33:15
Hmmmm, what a dilemma. I've been in your secretary's position myself and went out on disability in May 2001 for fibromyalgia. My work performance was suffering badly and I was literally dying from the stress of the job. As soon as I thought I was ready to come back the following November, I was laid off immediately. Even though I suspected it, it still hurt. But truth is, I would have crumbled in less than a month.
Your secretary probably should not return to work feeling as she does. I think your position is sound. It's a shame how businesses do not consider the individual and must follow the bottom line, but in this economic climate that's the way it is. If she's on disability or FMLA you need to consider the legal ramifications of letting her go. If she asks for accomodations in support of her disability then you're treading on very confusing legal terrain under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Perhaps cutting the string now will hurt initially but will be the most healing choice ultimately. She can get on with her life and your company can do what's best for it's health. - Barbara
Posted by mair on August 1, 2002, at 14:32:54
In reply to Depends on the definition of Awful :-), posted by kiddo on July 31, 2002, at 17:53:26
Thanks Kiddo. My colleague has let her know that if we don't take her back fulltime, we'll try to find something parttime for her when she's ready to return to work. It really is sort of a hollow promise however since she would be very costly to us as a parttime employee. I just don't see it happening.
The original breakdown was not really work-related although I'm sure having a real stressful job didn't help. Last winter, her fiance was killed in a single car accident (he was drunk at 4 in the afternoon and on his way over here to pick her up). I think the breakdown was a delayed grief reaction.
Mair
Posted by mair on August 1, 2002, at 14:41:10
In reply to Re: Am I Being Awful? (sorry long) » mair, posted by BarbaraCat on August 1, 2002, at 1:49:01
Barbara
I really should understand more about the ADA and the FMLA. Employment law is not something I ever do. It seems to me that the only accommodation we can make for this woman is to create a parttime position for her since she does not feel that she can work fulltime any more. My colleague definitely needs a full-time person so anything we gave her would be a position that does not now exist.
I also know very little about the FMLA. What can you tell me about it?
Mair
Posted by susan C on August 1, 2002, at 15:08:53
In reply to Am I Being Awful? (sorry long), posted by mair on July 31, 2002, at 17:33:15
One thing, i dont think is in your very carefully thought out list, is what her doctor recommends. I think the perspective/recommendation of her medical provider regarding whether or not or when or how much or what kind of work she returns to would be very important.
If she were me (and I have been in a similar situation) my doctor's perspective would be very important.
I also got the impression from your post that you are not the primary decision maker where her position or employment is concerned. If you are, there are lots of things to be investigated. If you are not, it seems to me, the question for yourself, would be, "how much do I need to involve myself in this problem and at what point do I draw the line and let things go?"
mouse on a teeter totter
Posted by no longer naive on August 1, 2002, at 22:13:03
In reply to Re: Am I Being Awful? (sorry long) » BarbaraCat, posted by mair on August 1, 2002, at 14:41:10
Mair, are you the person in charge of this decision? If not, I'd really hesitate if I were you before getting into the thick of it. Disability insurance varies from company to company and state to state and ADA guidelines can seem arbitrary. Disability discrimination is a very thorny legal area requiring professional advice. This is something that most HR departments are well versed in. Perhaps you don't have an HR department and everyone contributes to decision making, however, the owner of the company should either assign this to someone or take it on themselves. You do not want to shoulder this burden yourself because you will most definitely be the target for blame from all sides if a lawsuit develops. Your company should have a legal advisor and if not, this is a very good incentive to get one. One thing you might consider is to let her know that she has disability options, either through your employer and/or through social security disability. If you don't have an HR department that has this info, then talking to the social security deparment or with someone from NAMI (National Association for Mentally Ill) might give good advice. But try not to get overly involved, much as you'd like to help, because this is a job for her doctor, her family, her employer, not you.
Posted by mair on August 2, 2002, at 20:14:23
In reply to Re: Am I Being Awful? (sorry long) » mair, posted by no longer naive on August 1, 2002, at 22:13:03
Thanks that's all good advice. I'm not the one to make the decision although I certainly have some influence as one of the "owners" of this business. Also we're very small (10 people) so we're not extensively managed. This secretary has no disability insurance that I'm aware of, although I guess Social security might apply. Do you think the ADA would really require us to create a job for someone who could no longer perform her job? I mean the special accommodation she would need is parttime work and those slots don't exist.
Mair
Posted by mair on August 2, 2002, at 20:24:51
In reply to Re: Am I Being Awful? (sorry long), posted by susan C on August 1, 2002, at 15:08:53
It's pretty funny susan but it never occurred to me to ask this woman what her doctor thought. I guess I assumed either that her doc wouldn't give such specific advice, or that whatever she decided about how much she wanted her job back would be informed by discussions she had with her doc.
Every doc or therapist I've ever dealt with has been reluctant to give me any outright advice, except perhaps under some duress. My current therapist maybe will when she senses that I need support for a decision I've already essentially made myself.
Mair
Posted by BarbaraCat on August 3, 2002, at 16:52:32
In reply to Re: Am I Being Awful? (sorry long) » mair » no longer naive, posted by mair on August 2, 2002, at 20:14:23
No, you wouldn't have to provide accomodations for her if it's not 'reasonable'. That is, if it's going to negatively impact your business, i'ts not a reasonable choice. She can't give you a definite time when she'll be back and you don't feel she's able to do a critical job in your company. That's reason enough to find someone else who can be consistent and better able to handle the job. But I'm not an expert on this, only know what I do because of my own situation.
It sounds like you care about her and are willing to help her as best you can. Maybe you could do some exploring for her while she's in this difficult place. The social security office seems like the next step. It's the only other source I'm aware of that can give her aid if she can't work, other than Unemployment. She can apply for Social Security even if she's on unemployment. But SSI disability benefits are a long frustrating haul. I'm in the second appeal process after 1 year off work.
> Thanks that's all good advice. I'm not the one to make the decision although I certainly have some influence as one of the "owners" of this business. Also we're very small (10 people) so we're not extensively managed. This secretary has no disability insurance that I'm aware of, although I guess Social security might apply. Do you think the ADA would really require us to create a job for someone who could no longer perform her job? I mean the special accommodation she would need is parttime work and those slots don't exist.
>
> Mair
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