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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
I watched an interesting movies this past weekend called Afterlife. It is a japanese film -- subtitles and all. The premise is that when you die, you have a week to choose one memory that you will take with you into your afterlife -- and just one. Of course, this has been very thought provoking. What memory would I take? What memory would you take? A part of me wants to protest -- that my life has been so much hell, that the memory is still to come. Anyway, just something I have been mulling over. If you are one who doesn't mind subtitles, I would recommend this movie.
AKC
Posted by sar on August 14, 2001, at 10:50:11
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
i've heard great things about this movie, i'm glad you reminded me to rent it!
how long can the memory be? can it be a whole weekend?
if i had to choose just a few moments of memory, it would be from a few years ago: going out into nature to skinnydip across a lake with my then-boyfriend. i'd never swum naked before and it felt wonderful. deer and trees and cliffs around. we were halfway 'cross the lake (and it was pretty big, we're both good swimmers) when the sky turned purple and gold and it began to rain. it was sunset--lightning flashed against the sky. frightened of being struck, we swam as fast as we could back to the other side and climbed out exhausted, collapsed naked on the hot still-dry rocks (the rain was very light).
the swimming and nature-beauty and new-love was euphoric...
sar
Posted by susan C on August 14, 2001, at 11:35:43
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
> I watched an interesting movies this past weekend called Afterlife. It is a japanese film -- subtitles and all. The premise is that when you die, you have a week to choose one memory that you will take with you into your afterlife -- and just one. Of course, this has been very thought provoking. What memory would I take? What memory would you take? A part of me wants to protest -- that my life has been so much hell, that the memory is still to come. Anyway, just something I have been mulling over. If you are one who doesn't mind subtitles, I would recommend this movie.
>
> AKCAKC,
This is a good question, what one memory...it reminds me that I have many that I hold dear. If I were to pick one, now, I think I would pickk the day, the time when my now spouse and I were standing in front of the window, the sun streaming in, fall leaves on the trees, when we both looked at each other and said, I love you. That was 29 years ago. He is so important to me, even when he irritates the h*** out of me.
Posted by terra miller on August 14, 2001, at 12:40:22
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
stream of consciousness/first thing to mind:
standing in a candy store staring at swirling, round lollipops bigger than i ever seen in my life! surrounded by candy in jars, on papers, in shelves on the walls (picture a scene from WillyWonka). a child's dream come true.
Posted by mila on August 14, 2001, at 13:38:24
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
Thank you, AKC.
I am choosing the memory of me before bad things started happening. I was 6 years old, loved my kindergarten, mother was dressing me like a doll, father was giving me rides on his back, and brother played with me.
after that very cruel things happened. I hope afterlife will take care of people who did this to me.
mila
Posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 14:50:15
In reply to Re: memories, posted by mila on August 14, 2001, at 13:38:24
>
> after that very cruel things happened. I hope afterlife will take care of people who did this to me.
>That scares me. While I think I am an okay person now, I've done some pretty rotten things in my life. I've stole and lied and cheated. I've never outright abused anyone the way I was abused, but I've sure been mean to people. That's part of what gets me hung up on a higher power concept -- especially a diety concept. I can quickly get caught up in why bad happens. Is it because I've been bad? If not, then why? Why does any person have to suffer anything at all? Some of the above posts were expressing anger over the poor medical treatment sar is receiving. I often wonder why I am so lucky to be getting the great treatment I am getting -- how did I rate? Life is not fair, that much I know. But I want to know why. And I know I never will. So I have got to learn to live with it, maybe.
AKC
Posted by mila on August 14, 2001, at 19:50:10
In reply to Re: memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 14:50:15
dear AKC,
please forgive me. I didn't mean to scare you. Gosh, I am so sorry.
Stealing, lying, and cheating are not rotten things. they are pretty normal (unless pathological) and occasionally useful:) I really meant abhorrent physical and sexual abuse I was subjected to after the age of 6. I must also tell you that I do not really hate people who did this to me. I do not care anymore about that stuff generally. I was mostly talking about how I felt today: need to feel playful, innocent, and well groomed:) I had a very exausting and physically 'abusive' school year, which is culminating now in summer university final exams, hence my mentioning of cruelties. I am well aware that I did it all to myself and I hope that in 'afterlife', on vacatons that is, I will be able to recover and rethink the ways i did things this year. My mind is very symbolic, that is a blessing and a curse. 99% of the time I speak, I speak about things metaphorically attempting to delineate my situation in the moment.
For me, God is good. I rarely talk to him through my prayers, only when I am extremely grateful and I know that no one will be able to understand or share my awe but him.
my current understanding of why bad happens is actually 'because I've been bad', although not in a moral sense, which is what you probably meant. 'Bad' in my understanding is either about too much pride and too little courage, or about lack of skill ( as in bad leader, bad cook, etc.)
suffering is the only feedback about our mistakes (our own and other people's). Unfortunately, suffering doesn't come with manual about how to correct those immediately and simply. Education, exploration, and, hey, even therapy are blessings in this situation. I am terribly happy that you are receiving a top notch treatment, but let me remind you that it took you decades and many trials and errors to get there. So, while you are enjoying your luck, remember to discern a sense of pride in your feelings. You totally deserve it. I am very proud of you.
I am very cautious with 'life is not fair' statement. when it starts to come to my mind, I always pay attention to the attitude which caused it. Is it wisdom, or arrogance?
thanks for an excellent thread. you did it again :) you are wonderful
mila
Posted by AKC on August 14, 2001, at 21:05:39
In reply to Re: memories, posted by mila on August 14, 2001, at 19:50:10
mila,
Sorry I had such an extreme reaction. I just carry such baggage from my past, as I am certain many of us do.
I'm really upset with this latest spell. I'm angry and scared and sad. As I posted on another thread, while I may be coping "better" with these episodes, it doesn't change how painful they are. And I am just weary to my bones. So that adds to my overreactions to the slightest thing. When I voice it outloud, I can usually see that I am blowing something a little out of proportion.
I am usually pretty good about not using the "life's unfair" type phrase. That is too much a victim role, and I've worked hard at not being a victim. I suffered as a victim when I was a child. I'm not going to suffer as a victim now.
What are you studying? I have three degrees, so I do remember the stress that brings.
I liked your memory. I don't have many childhood memories, especially from when I was very young. I am glad that you are able to remember the good times.
Thanks for your kind words.
AKC
Posted by ChrisK on August 15, 2001, at 5:08:34
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
Today my thoughts would be at the racetrack with my father when I was a kid but most of that is because I can go to Saratoga everyday this month and I miss those times when I was younger and my father had to bring me to the races. He died 4 years ago next week and I feel like I never grieved "properly." But then that's probably an Irish-Catholic thing.
With more time to think about it I would pick out sometime like my wedding day where I was able to be with my wife and both of our families. There are so few times that this all happens and they work out. It was a very relaxed evening service at my parents house and there weren't all of the usual fusses that people get caught up in on such a day.
Posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 6:43:28
In reply to Re: memories » mila, posted by AKC on August 14, 2001, at 21:05:39
good morning AKC :)
>
> Sorry I had such an extreme reaction. I just carry such baggage from my past, as I am certain many of us do.hmm, interesting image. I see a small lady-child with many black bulging bags trying to pull them away from her father's house. The progress is laborious and slow, she almost crawls. This tells me that you have not been able to own the pain yet, or leave it behind (gee, I sound lame). Is it so? I am only saying that because you used the word baggage: something that we believe could be useful to us in our journey, yet counterproductive AS we journey. What is your solution for this image?
>
> I'm really upset with this latest spell. I'm angry and scared and sad. As I posted on another thread, while I may be coping "better" with these episodes, it doesn't change how painful they are. And I am just weary to my bones. So that adds to my overreactions to the slightest thing. When I voice it outloud, I can usually see that I am blowing something a little out of proportion.I am terribly sorry to hear this. Has your team been able to discern some pattern in just when these spells tend to occur? or at least what is the straw that tends to break the camel's back?
>
> I am usually pretty good about not using the "life's unfair" type phrase. That is too much a victim role, and I've worked hard at not being a victim. I suffered as a victim when I was a child. I'm not going to suffer as a victim now.I have found the victim stuff be loaded with insight in my own life. What was sacrificed in your story? What was erradicated? In my life as a child I was severely punished for being a girl, for not being a family person, for not knowing everything about people's feelings and expectations and rules of the social game. the later cruelties that happened were mostly variations of the same topics. That was terribly unfair. I grew up emotionally and socially illiterate because of these circumstances. What were you punished for?
>
> What are you studying? I have three degrees, so I do remember the stress that brings.I am studying psychology. When I started, it was because I wanted to learn why I was depressed and what are the solutions. Now I keep studying because I want to know why I got cured, which is a mystery to me. I have a good idea why, but I might be very wrong. I also have several degrees, so I know that layman's opinion is rarely correct :)
>
> I liked your memory. I don't have many childhood memories, especially from when I was very young. I am glad that you are able to remember the good times.I felt a bit cumbersome when I posted it. First I tried the 'deathbed' approach, and as you said it was not working. I do not know which memories I will cherish by the time I die from old age. Then I switched into 'if I died this very moment' frame, and the good stuff relevant to my present state of mind popped out right away. You have never shared any memories yourself. how about 'practice what you preach' now? please. if you were to pass away this very moment what memory would it be?
best,
mila
Posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 7:02:05
In reply to Re: memories, posted by ChrisK on August 15, 2001, at 5:08:34
Thank you, Chris,
yours are wonderful memories.
when my father died, my mother-in-law did a radical grief intervention on me within hours of his death. She pushed me onto a sofa and ordered me to tell her everything about my father, without hiding anything. Not the kind of stuff they put in the obituaries, but a candid story of the man's life and character. It took me 6 hours. And I believe it saved my baby ( I was 8 months pregnant then). I barely spoke Spanish then, and had to choose words very carefully, constantly looking into the dictionary. god bless her patience. I have never grieved (in the usual sense of word) afterwards. Father in my dreams now is always healthy and supportive, the best of his waking self. and in waking i do not have to tell people about the other side of him.
I wonder what is the proper grieving in your understanding? Has your father's story been told?
thanks again
mila
Posted by afatchic on August 15, 2001, at 7:32:56
In reply to memories, posted by akc on August 14, 2001, at 10:01:06
The one memory I would want to take with me is of snuggling with my son. His warm, soft little body molded against mine. I would not want to forget loving and being loved that completely.
> I watched an interesting movies this past weekend called Afterlife. It is a japanese film -- subtitles and all. The premise is that when you die, you have a week to choose one memory that you will take with you into your afterlife -- and just one. Of course, this has been very thought provoking. What memory would I take? What memory would you take? A part of me wants to protest -- that my life has been so much hell, that the memory is still to come. Anyway, just something I have been mulling over. If you are one who doesn't mind subtitles, I would recommend this movie.
>
> AKC
Posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 8:48:17
In reply to Re: memories, posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 6:43:28
You have never shared any memories yourself. how about 'practice what you preach' now? please. if you were to pass away this very moment what memory would it be?
I didn't share one other thing about the movie. If a person could not (or would not) pick a memory, he or she could not go on to the afterlife, but instead stayed behind and helped others choose their memories until he or she could finally choose a memory. I don't know if it is the depression or what, I just have not been able to pick a memory. I've done a lot of things in my life, been to a lot of neat places, but nothing is bringing up warm fuzzies. I get more warm fuzzies reading everyone else's memories more than remembering mine. But I'm not going to quit trying. I think this is quite theraputic.
AKC
Posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 10:27:29
In reply to Re: memories, posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 8:48:17
>
> I didn't share one other thing about the movie. If a person could not (or would not) pick a memory, he or she could not go on to the afterlife, but instead stayed behind and helped others choose their memories until he or she could finally choose a memory. I don't know if it is the depression or what, I just have not been able to pick a memory. I've done a lot of things in my life, been to a lot of neat places, but nothing is bringing up warm fuzzies. I get more warm fuzzies reading everyone else's memories more than remembering mine. But I'm not going to quit trying. I think this is quite theraputic.
>
> AKCwow, AKC, this answer sent me in a total knockout. I am blinking here, speechless...
your criterion is very feeling based. i envy you.
i also get this fuzzy warm feeling when I read what other people share. For myself, when I am down or flying around like a crazy cat, i do not seek warmth, i seek light and clarity of mental images, they also have to be very stable, like snapshots, not like movies. memories that have these visual qualities refresh me back into normalcy.
thanks for helping. I really needed some help yesterday to recover from my monday exam quickly in order to prepare for the today's one. sorry that helping us delayed your passage into your 'new life after the one you have had so far' though :( i enormously respect your rigorous demands. not settling for anything less than perfect is the way to go. cheers...
...and much love
m.
p.s. however, how about the principle of successive approximations? warmer, warmer, warmer yet, up till it feels sooo comphy...
p.p.s. my apologies for babbling uncontrollably. strike it from the record, as needed, please. i'll hurry now and will post this stream of thought anyway :)
Posted by susan C on August 15, 2001, at 10:33:19
In reply to Re: memories, posted by afatchic on August 15, 2001, at 7:32:56
I am going to put Milas request and this one together...I have said, and my husband has said, if we were to die today, we would be satisfied with our lives because of our children. There were are parts of the last 29 years of behavior and money and wrong decisions, but both of or children turned out fine and loving and expressive. I too remember holding my children when they were infants...what is it about child asleep? I now remind myself to hug and touch my 17 year old, because he will soon be gone, off in his own world, too, like his brother. Another time of grief and at the same time fond memories.
-s> The one memory I would want to take with me is of snuggling with my son. His warm, soft little body molded against mine. I would not want to forget loving and being loved that completely.
>
> > I watched an interesting movies this past weekend called Afterlife. It is a japanese film -- subtitles and all. The premise is that when you die, you have a week to choose one memory that you will take with you into your afterlife -- and just one. Of course, this has been very thought provoking. What memory would I take? What memory would you take? A part of me wants to protest -- that my life has been so much hell, that the memory is still to come. Anyway, just something I have been mulling over. If you are one who doesn't mind subtitles, I would recommend this movie.
> >
> > AKC
Posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 11:33:47
In reply to Re: memories, posted by susan C on August 15, 2001, at 10:33:19
> I am going to put Milas request and this one together...I have said, and my husband has said, if we were to die today, we would be satisfied with our lives because of our children. There were are parts of the last 29 years of behavior and money and wrong decisions, but both of or children turned out fine and loving and expressive. I too remember holding my children when they were infants...what is it about child asleep? I now remind myself to hug and touch my 17 year old, because he will soon be gone, off in his own world, too, like his brother. Another time of grief and at the same time fond memories.
> -sstrangely, my son is the memory of the day today for me too. should I kick the bucket today, guys, i will get with me the memory of the moment when my son first saw me. he was about 3 weeks old and his eyes were floating all this time. i was nursing him, and he suddenly lifted his gaze and looked directly into my eyes. I got goosebumps. I realized I gave birth to a person then...
thank you, Susan.
oh...Mighty Mouse:)... this handle is hilarious!mila
Posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 13:05:54
In reply to Re: memories, posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 10:27:29
>
> i also get this fuzzy warm feeling when I read what other people share. For myself, when I am down or flying around like a crazy cat, i do not seek warmth, i seek light and clarity of mental images, they also have to be very stable, like snapshots, not like movies. memories that have these visual qualities refresh me back into normalcy.
>What few memories I have from my childhood, even up into my teen years are all snapshots. As an adult I can intellectually determine what I must have been feeling because of what was happening too and around me, but I have no recollection of the feelings and very few memories of the events, good or bad.
Take one memory -- my grandmother's Christmas tree. She would decorate that thing to the t -- it was beautiful. I have a snapshot of it in my head from one of the years; gobs and gobs of presents below it. I know I was around the age of 8 or 9. But I have no memory of the feeling. I must have been very excited. I do have a general memory of enjoying Christmas. So I put that snapshot with that general memory -- presto! A memory for you. The excitement of seeing my grandmother's Christmas tree.
> thanks for helping. I really needed some help yesterday to recover from my monday exam quickly in order to prepare for the today's one. sorry that helping us delayed your passage into your 'new life after the one you have had so far' though :( i enormously respect your rigorous demands. not settling for anything less than perfect is the way to go. cheers...
>My demands for perfection have kept me sick for a long, long time!
> ...and much love
> m.
> p.s. however, how about the principle of successive approximations? warmer, warmer, warmer yet, up till it feels sooo comphy...
> p.p.s. my apologies for babbling uncontrollably. strike it from the record, as needed, please. i'll hurry now and will post this stream of thought anyway :)No apologies are needed. I have been babbling for days, now. It is fun to have someone to babble with -- I am really enjoying this.
I hope your exams are going well!
Posted by sar on August 15, 2001, at 13:57:14
In reply to Re: memories, posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 13:05:54
dear AKC,
just wanted to thank you for this thread--i've enjoyed it v. much, and i hope more will post.
btw, i can relate to your inability/indeciciveness choosing a memory--that weekend back in 1998 is the only beautiful memory of mine that comes to mind. that and how the boyfriend and i used to put our faces against each other, eyes wide open, and blink, smiling. he always looked so innocent then, his skin was always warm--
(i am, for the most part, over him. i actually broke up with him. my best memories just stem from him--spending time with the most beautiful person i've ever met)
AKC--when was the last time you shrieked joyously (or do you even do that girly stuff)? fell asleep wonderfully soundly?
i think the pressure of choosing just one memory is too heavy. can you just pick 3 good times and share them?
keep the thread goin' girl!
sar
Posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 14:40:11
In reply to Re: memories » akc, posted by sar on August 15, 2001, at 13:57:14
> AKC--when was the last time you shrieked joyously (or do you even do that girly stuff)? fell asleep wonderfully soundly?
>This at least made me laugh (which I haven't been doing much of the past two weeks). I may be butch (which I very much am) -- but I can still giggle!
And right now, I am trying to grow my hair out -- it is down to my top of my shoulders, sort of (not all of it yet, but in the back). I can almost pull it back in a pony-tail. The last time I could do that was when I was 13! But one of the partners this morning was commenting on my hair. I had to explain to him that as it gets longer, it will do what it wants because I never learned how to do that girly stuff to it. So I really smiled when I saw the word "girly" since I had just used it this morning myself.
So when was the last time I shrieked joyously? Hmmm.... You know, I am one of these who gets blinded by my depressions. I tend to forget the good stuff. I know I had a blast when my brother and his family where up for the weekend after the fourth of July. And I tend to laugh a lot when I am with them. I was in a really good space at that time. So it is likely that I had a good, deep belly laugh that weekend. I don't remember, but I would suspect that I did. You would just have to be around my nephew Jack for an hour or so -- he can make you laugh in no time -- he is 13 and can irritate you, but he is a good kid. As are his brother and sister.
See, with your help, I am getting some of my memories back! I have had lots of wonderful times the past few years with my brother and his family. My sister-in-law and I talk often. She is very special and she has done a wonderful job raising my niece and my nephews.
Thanks for helping me think of them today.
AKC
Posted by ChrisK on August 16, 2001, at 4:05:10
In reply to Re: memories ChrisK, posted by mila on August 15, 2001, at 7:02:05
Mila,
I don't have a fixed way of grieving in my mind. I only know that I really never have grieved at the death of any family member. I've always been the one to make the phone calls to tell friends and relatives of the event and be the one who is completely composed at the funeral home.
My father died at about 3AM. I got a call from my mother to come to the hospital at about 1AM. I got there before the doctor told us that my father had died. It was just my mother, sister, brotherinlaw and me. When the doctor told us what had happened he asked if any of us wanted to go up to the operating room to say our goodbyes. I was the only one to go. After I was done with my prayers and kissing my father good-bye my mother gave me a cross that my father always wore. I have never taken it off since that night. It keeps me close to him somehow.
I can get teary eyed right now while I type this but I didn't have the breakdown reaction that my sister and mother had. I have heard others say that it is an Irish-Catholic type of reaction. The men in the family never lose control of our emotions when it comes to death.
My father had cancer a few years before he died (not the cause of his death) and I did take the time to write down all of the memories I had of him growing up - everything from him being my confirmation sposer to showing up to watch my HS soccer games. I know that the list of memories was saved and I'm sure that it helped in part to get him through the trying times of chemo-therapy and radiation treatments.
My sister is into making scrapbooks now and she has made one for my mother all about my father so there is a record of all he did for us.
It's been a while now but his legacy in our family is preserved. I don't feel bad about my initial reaction to his death but I do think that it's ironic that I get more emotional now than when he first died.
Chris
> Thank you, Chris,
>
> yours are wonderful memories.
>
> when my father died, my mother-in-law did a radical grief intervention on me within hours of his death. She pushed me onto a sofa and ordered me to tell her everything about my father, without hiding anything. Not the kind of stuff they put in the obituaries, but a candid story of the man's life and character. It took me 6 hours. And I believe it saved my baby ( I was 8 months pregnant then). I barely spoke Spanish then, and had to choose words very carefully, constantly looking into the dictionary. god bless her patience. I have never grieved (in the usual sense of word) afterwards. Father in my dreams now is always healthy and supportive, the best of his waking self. and in waking i do not have to tell people about the other side of him.
>
> I wonder what is the proper grieving in your understanding? Has your father's story been told?
>
> thanks again
>
> mila
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