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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Hi,
I'm new to Psycho-Social Babble, I'm normallly on PsychoBabble. I'm a Psychologist (NOT a Psychiatrist) and would *really* like to know what people suffering from depression/anxiety, etc. have found both harmful and helpful in their experiences with Psychologists. As a therapist, you get very little feed back from your clients so you don't really know what your strengths and weaknesses are. I look forward to your *frank* feedback ...
Cheers
KS
Posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 7:47:11
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Hi Kevin,
*really*? as opposed to *how*? :)))in a psychologist I look for knowledge and curiosity. A psychologist in my understanding is 'more educated' in psychological matters than a psychiatrist. I expect them to be well up-dated in the latest methods of treatment and scientific discoveries, including those that show that therapeutic relationship accounts for a huge portion of satisfaction and positive outcome. So, it is very strange for me to hear that you do not have much feedback from your clients about your strengths and weaknesses. why? how does it benefit you?
encounter with a psychologist is all about exploration, with a psychiatrist - about disease and health. From a psychologist I expect assistance in full elucidation of the experiential side of the illness, if any, and a proper administration of a proper treatment.
ignorance is very harmful in a psychologist. Lack of acceptance and respect is even worst.
Insatiable curiosity, tremendous, infectious sense of wonder, theoretical flexibility, and oversized emotional skills are very helpful. A psychologist can afford being non-supportive, a psychiatrist never. It is because being non-supportive is one of the tools a psychologist uses in both exploration and treatment.
I would never see a psychologist who identfies herself/himself as a therapist. Mainly because it makes a client into a patient, presupposes a disorder or a pathology of some kind. Not every human condition is pathological however disfunctional it can be.
mila
Posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 8:37:28
In reply to Re: WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 7:47:11
Hi Mila
Thanks for such a wonderful reply to my query - it was/will be helpful to me. In response to your comment: "So, it is very strange for me to hear that you do not have much feedback from your clients about your strengths and weaknesses. why? how does it benefit you?" I need to clarify that I do get plenty of feed back regarding the *process* and *outcome* of the service(s) I provide. As a Psychologist, I am frustrated that I do not get enough *frank* feed back about what users of my service(s) have found helpful, very helpful, completely unhelpful, irritating mannerisms, possible improvements on services, etc. I'm very curious and it would help if I could get this feed back. I understand that those working with me might shy away from such frank feed back - given the whole medical model prohibition of suggesting anything to/contradicting or (heaven-forbid) constructively criticising your mental health care professional. I (We) need this feed back to make sure our service(s) are relevant and to obtain all the really good ideas and coping strategies suffers have got.
I'd like to hear more from you on this point, if possible.
Thank you once again for your response.
Warm regards
KS
> Hi Kevin,
> *really*? as opposed to *how*? :)))
>
> in a psychologist I look for knowledge and curiosity. A psychologist in my understanding is 'more educated' in psychological matters than a psychiatrist. I expect them to be well up-dated in the latest methods of treatment and scientific discoveries, including those that show that therapeutic relationship accounts for a huge portion of satisfaction and positive outcome. So, it is very strange for me to hear that you do not have much feedback from your clients about your strengths and weaknesses. why? how does it benefit you?
>
> encounter with a psychologist is all about exploration, with a psychiatrist - about disease and health. From a psychologist I expect assistance in full elucidation of the experiential side of the illness, if any, and a proper administration of a proper treatment.
>
> ignorance is very harmful in a psychologist. Lack of acceptance and respect is even worst.
>
> Insatiable curiosity, tremendous, infectious sense of wonder, theoretical flexibility, and oversized emotional skills are very helpful. A psychologist can afford being non-supportive, a psychiatrist never. It is because being non-supportive is one of the tools a psychologist uses in both exploration and treatment.
>
> I would never see a psychologist who identfies herself/himself as a therapist. Mainly because it makes a client into a patient, presupposes a disorder or a pathology of some kind. Not every human condition is pathological however disfunctional it can be.
>
> mila
Posted by Kiddo on May 2, 2001, at 10:32:17
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Hi,
I see a Psychiatrist, however, in terms of therapy, I don't think it makes a difference as long as you’re 'good'. "You're/your" in all therapists, etc.
Before '1', the one thing that is most important to me is empathy. If you can't relate to me, and what I'm going through, I'm not sure you can be much help. I need to know that you understand when I can't get out of bed, why I can't function, remember what happened 30 minutes ago, or that when I cut myself, it isn't because I'm wanting to kill myself, but because I don't know how to cope any other way, and that's why I'm seeing you.
1. I think a Dx is one thing, but continuously being 'labeled' is another.
2. I need to know/feel that when I'm there, I'm the only person on your mind, that nothing else and no one is more important at that time (excluding emergencies).
3. If you don't know about a disorder, etc., let me know, but also let me know that you are willing to educate yourself in the area.
4. Treat me with respect. Because I'm your 'client/patient', I'm putting a lot of trust in you. My mental, emotional, and possibly physical health could rely on the way you see me. If you see me as hopeless, I will pick up on that quick, and will see myself that way as well.
5. Don't hesitate to let me know you are human, but don't ever let me think you are incompetent.
6. Let me know up front your 'rules' on how you handle crises, etc. Are you willing to schedule extra sessions, touch base more often, etc.
7. I need to know that my mental well being is more important to you than your fee. As in feeling like your in it for the money, not because you care.
Those are the kinds of things I need, however, everyone is different. That's just my .02 worth.
If you really desire 'frank' feedback, create a questionnaire, that will allow your clients/patients to remain anonymous. You could supply them with an SASE, and make it multiple choice, T/F, etc. If you don't want to do the SASE, provide a box or something they can drop it in, so they don't have to worry you are going to rush to read what they say. Allow them a place to write in feedback, and let them know that they are welcome to attach a typed sheet, or whatever, if they are worried of your recognizing their handwriting.
Sorry it's so long, but I hope that helped.Kiddo
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Psycho-Social Babble, I'm normallly on PsychoBabble. I'm a Psychologist (NOT a Psychiatrist) and would *really* like to know what people suffering from depression/anxiety, etc. have found both harmful and helpful in their experiences with Psychologists. As a therapist, you get very little feed back from your clients so you don't really know what your strengths and weaknesses are. I look forward to your *frank* feedback ...
> Cheers
> KS
Posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 10:48:14
In reply to Re: WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST? » mila, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 8:37:28
===As a Psychologist, I am frustrated that I do not get enough *frank* feed back about what users of my service(s) have found helpful, very helpful, completely unhelpful,irritating mannerisms, possible improvements on services, etc.
My hunch is that you and 'them' see you as an authority in the session, and that it is up to you to open the gates for such a conversation to ensue. Have YOU ever spoke to them about waht you have found helpful, very helpful, completely unhelpful,irritating mannerisms, possible improvements , etc. in THEIR demeanor? The way you do it gives them a pattern to follow when you move to the discussion of the same about your personal and therapeutic demeanor.
When I work with my clients I find that this stragegy effectively unseals their mouths. If they DO see you as an authority, they are in a double bind, bound to reply, or they wouldn't get any beter (LOL). Of course, brief education about benefits of such exploration should take place prior to engaging in tell-it-all adventure sure as hell pregnant with both rewards and threats.
The most important thing for you to realize here is that you have to be who you are today, or otherwise you are delivering a poor service to your clients. If interest in interpersonal learning is what drives you today, let it shine forth. Appreciate your own dynamics, your clients do not see you as carved in stone anyway. A year ago patients had to satisfy themselves with different Kevin-psychologist, 10 years from now it would be something different from today (I hope).
to help you get this thing going, first recall your training experiences. you must have had at least a minimal amount of experience with group therapy and with psychoanalysis. These two are big on interpersonal feedback.
Next, read Irving Yalom. Especially relevant is his article Interpersonal Learning (Psychiatry Updates: The American Psychiatric Association Annual Review. v.5. 1986. pp.699-713). His fiction is very good too (the main character is always himself, a psychotherapist, or a psychiatrist). Try Love's Executioner, Mommy Dearest, When Nietzsche Wept, Lying on the Couch, Yalom Reader... Top it all with his groundbreaking volumes Group Psychotherapy, and Existential Psychotherapy. He has also released a 5 videocassettes set on Group psychotherapy. He discusses all the questions you have raised here about feedback and "constructive criticising your mental health care professional"
And finally, experiment. There is a joke among psychologists: 'Private practice is a place where you practice privately":) Allow yourself some space for "mistakes", rely on the Trial-and-Error-and-Error-and-Error Method of achieving excellence. You and your patients deserve the very best of you, but they also deserve the very humble of you, if you know what I mean:)
mila
Posted by julesvox on May 2, 2001, at 11:01:39
In reply to Re: WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 7:47:11
> I would never see a psychologist who identfies herself/himself as a therapist. Mainly because it makes a client into a patient, presupposes a disorder or a pathology of some kind. Not every human condition is pathological however disfunctional it can be.
mila--i thought this was a funny thing to hear--i think the classifications often vary from state to state, bcs where i live, i would only want to see a therapist bcs they tend NOT to be into pathologizing out here. "psychologists" on the other hand do.
kevin--i have big trust issues, and i've had very gifted therapists ask me if there's something they're doing or saying that's making things difficult for me or that make me believe they're judging me, etc. i think i actually did point out a mannerism my current therapist has that was bothering me. we talked about it and it was so helpful. so, if you think maybe that's affecting your process, my advice would be to ask your client.
best
julesvox
Posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 11:56:58
In reply to Re: WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST? » mila, posted by julesvox on May 2, 2001, at 11:01:39
Hi,i liked your post.
My understanding of what 'psychologist' and what 'therapist' means stems from my experience of wearing both of these pairs of shoes. In times of trouble, i would go and see a psychologist first, and if disorder is detected a specialist in specific cluster of treatments/psychiatrist next. psychopathology is only a tiny part of what constitutes human condition, psychologists are the ones who are supposed to be keen on that. they are the ones who sort things out into mental, emotional, neurological, biological, social, personality, developmental, etc. aspects of the whole. In case I experience difficulties of non-disorder related kind, I would see an analyst to sort things out and to brainstorm the solutions.
I never had trust issues till I saw my first therapist. Oh my, she made every trust destroying movement in the book! (LOL) I owe her the full blooming of my social anxiety disorder:) That is one of the reasons I am reticent about seeing therapists. They tend to be either eclectic or abominably narrow in their work. You are so lucky to find some gifted ones for yourself. That is great! A month ago I had a cool experience with one myself. He was so good at being bad, he cured me:) After seeing him I have never felt better in my whole life.
mila
Posted by julesvox on May 3, 2001, at 9:17:27
In reply to Re: julesvox, posted by mila on May 2, 2001, at 11:56:58
hi--i don't have much to add, except thanks. it all makes me think...bad pdocs or psychologists are bad, but i wonder if bad therapists are somehow worse (or worse in some ways), bcs you are there primarily to interact w/them on an emotional level? anyway, thanks mila! j.
Posted by kazoo on May 7, 2001, at 0:26:30
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Q. WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?
A. One that isn't driving a brand new Cadillac "Seville."
(a comic) kazoo
Posted by Doo on May 7, 2001, at 11:36:35
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Hello,
I've read the messages in the thread and they are very instructive and I won't repeat any of what has been said.
But I can add one or two things I look for in a psychologist:
- philosophical curiosity, an ability to think about human condition in general. That way when I'm completely overwhelmed by the existential nothingness, or loneliness, I can feel the one in front of me knows a bit what's going on, why I'm so in pain.
- What I expect from a psychologist is that he doesn't "need" me, that he won't "use" me to satisfy his own emotional needs. This is an extremely subtle process, that requires from the psychologist a great self-consciousness and emotional control. I think this is one of the major reasons why some therapies "fail" to work. When the psychologist needs from his clients to reflect him that he is a good psychologist, that he is helping, the client will feel it. And the therapeutic process can be completely stopped. What happens then is a repetition of another unsatisfying relation.
What I really don't like from a psychologist is when he/she confronts my views when I know they are right. I don't like confrontations in general, but when they are 'wrong confrontations', this is done.
So this is it, hope it helps...
Doo
Posted by sar on May 7, 2001, at 22:46:49
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
I kind of have 2 psychs right now, one that I really like and one that I don't like so much.
The one that I don't like so much, I acquired her from a free community center & she's very *nice*...but maybe too nice & chipper? She sits in her chair nervously yanking her skirt over her knees, smiles at me like I'm a second grader she's trying to encourage...her office is really sunny-bright with plain generic prints on the green (?!) walls...she doesn't test me in any way, she basically regurgitates whatever I tell her--"So what you're saying is..." During our first appt I described some s. ideation and she looked at me like I was a creep, I told her I'd done some research & she said "I can't believe you went that far"--a regular joe coulda said that, this was supposed to be a psych, someone I could say anything to...anyway, after a few appts I'm not going back.
The other is a psychoanalyst with an office that originally intimidated me because of its darkness and rich leather furniture, this woman is very very serious...total zen master I think tho, like in one of our first appointments she said in a strong voice "You're afraid to speak honestly because you're afraid of what I'll think of you"--which was totally true...she's somehow stern and gentle at the same time, very professional, not afraid to discuss psychological concepts with me and, unlike the other, actually is very up on all that shit. (as she should be! i would hope so. anyway--). I can't have a pushover for a psych...my main requirements, I think, are broadmindedness, strength of character, and of the female persuasion. I don't care much for male docs--nothing personal, it's just not for me.
good luck to you.irie!
sar
Posted by Diane J. on May 8, 2001, at 14:51:00
In reply to WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by KS on May 2, 2001, at 6:50:24
Dear KS,
How about a little humility? My ex-therapist believed her interpretations were right on target. She acted as if she were perfect. Arrogance in a psychologist is definitely not attractive.
I also think a psychologist needs to remember that the person sitting across from her or him is a human being, just like the psychologist. I was uncomfortably aware that my ex-therapist felt she was better than me.
I have a new therapist who I think is terrific. She actually LISTENS. She doesn't tell me what to do. She is nice, kind, and sensitive. I can tell she likes what she does. She dresses in attractive clothing but she does not make herself the star of the show. She is there for me.
Diane J.
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to Psycho-Social Babble, I'm normallly on PsychoBabble. I'm a Psychologist (NOT a Psychiatrist) and would *really* like to know what people suffering from depression/anxiety, etc. have found both harmful and helpful in their experiences with Psychologists. As a therapist, you get very little feed back from your clients so you don't really know what your strengths and weaknesses are. I look forward to your *frank* feedback ...
> Cheers
> KS
Posted by Noa on May 8, 2001, at 15:57:26
In reply to Re: WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN A PSYCHOLOGIST?, posted by sar on May 7, 2001, at 22:46:49
I agree on the humility thing. I would not be comfortable with a slick, overly confident therapist who arrogantly presented interpretations as THE truth.
I look for: warmth, patience, empathy, humility, intelligence, eclecticism, interest in learning and keeping up with the field (knowledge of mental health disorders), ability to show respect for me, and reliability. I also want a therapist to have very good boundaries that are communicated well.
This is the end of the thread.
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