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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2020, at 15:38:21
nz accuses first world countries of stockpiling vaccine.
first world countries invested in companies to allow them to pay employees to do quality research and develop and make vaccines. and then to make the equipment for it to be manufactured more widely and so on.
i don't think it is fair to accuse a nation of 'hoarding' when it is the case that the nation commissioned or paid in advance for the thing to be developed and produced.
nz accuses other countries of that which it sees in itself. in double-think fashion. let me explain it. nz thinks itself a first world country. it recently learned that it can't manage a flu vaccine because what happens is the 'doctors' the university councils saw fit to select to train and graduate refuse to get the vaccine to the people who most need it because they think they can turn a greater profit from hoarding it and then selling it to highest bidders a little later.
nz sees in itself this tendancy to hoard and takes itself to be first world. so now it tells the world (and the new zealand people) that it is a problem that first world countries hoard vaccines and that is why new zealanders don't have access.
nz says that some nations brought enough vaccine to vaccinate their entire population three times over!
but two vaccinations are required for over 90 per cent immunity, they think. and who knows how that was going to turn out... it might have turned out that three doses would be required. it might have turned out that more than three doses would be required, even. we don't know how long immunity lasts... it might only be a couple months... in which case they will be pleased they had the foresight to have purchased... well... enough for 3 vaccines per person...
cry cry cry for hand-outs, nz.
cry cry cry while contributing next to nothing towards the costs of production.
and it's not about hte money.
that's the real kicker. how little it is about the money, really, and how very very very very much it is about everything else.___________________________________
the government is still going on about healthcare workers getting prority access to vaccination.
why?
does vaccination prevent the person becoming a vector? if a healthcare worker on the front line gets a vaccination so they don't believe they are at personal risk of getting covid...
will they really revert in their behaviors, then? i mean, they'll stop campaigning for access (they still don't have access to) N95 masks -- right? they don't need to wear masks for their own personal protection. handwashing etc...
but they can still be vectors. transmit the disease from people in their care to other people...
that's the scariest situation of all. healthcare workers who know they are not themselves in any danger at all but who have the power to transmit it from person to person to person.
see why it would be irresponsible to give vaccine doses to new zealand?
the healthcare workers (not the high risk ones, the low risk ones) will steal for themselves and sell to the highest bidder.
in order for the rich to get richer and the mass extermination of those who were refused / denied / declined doses of vaccine.
i am getting a better handle on how new zealand thinks about vaccine.
my thesis didn't really speak to new zealanders because of the whole rich getting richer psychopathic aspect of things where people genuinely thought vaccines were good and they were intentionally withholding them from others.
but then the cases of incompetent vaccine shots, as well. in the pacific islands... the mmr vaccine... mixed with expired anasthetic...
______________________-
Faucci and some of the doctors are grrrrrrrrrrr angry upset confused having a hard time understanding why people are refusing to follow the rules...
the issue is in how different people have different needs.
if you put a person like me into a over-crowded concert or lecture hall or whatever where the people are all bumping up and jostling and so on it's torture for me.
but other people NEED that kind of social contact. they NEED it.
and the small group environments where people have their guard down. the 2 or 5 or 10 or 20 or the crowded bar... where people are intimate. whispering sweet nothings. yelling in the face of. chest bumping fist bumping breathing all over.
some people NEED that kind of social contact. they NEED it.
i don't think it is that people don't believe in Covid. i think it is that people NEED teh kind of social contact that teh public health etc people are saying are super-spreader events.
i think it is a genuine need for these people. because they seemed compelled to congregate... even if the police shot at them. they were compelled to congregate. i am not meaning to disparage the message of black lives matter or anything.. but i do think if that wasn't the reason / pretext there would have been another reason that would have served as a common cause for mass public congregation with masks off...
people seem to NEED it.
not all of them... but... most of them.
i think young people have the hardest time forsaking that kind of social contact.
i guess it is a kind of risky behavior with what we know about disease and disease transmission.
but i think that people genuinely are saying 'i'd rather be dead than forsake these freedoms -- this is how important doing those things is to me'.
genuinely.
it's not stupid.
genuinely.
it's a real expression of their psychological need. physiological need.
that needs to be understood and... things figured out about it... how to... cater to it / work with it...
yeah.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2020, at 15:46:30
In reply to stockpiling and compliance with public health, posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2020, at 15:38:21
i am somewhat reminded of... i don't remember what it was...
a... critter... parasite of some kind. it lived part of its life in a bird. then it would get pooped out and would somehow become part of an ant. then it would get into the ants brain, apparently, and the ant would engage in... phototaxic behavior, i guess. it would run up a blade of grass or whatever which would make it more likely to be eaten by a bird...
so there was a thing about how the parasite was affecting the ants brain to get it to engage in this behavior whereby it ran up a blade of grass. a kind of mind control...
viruses are really good at getting critters doing whatever it is that enables or allows their transmission.
they wouldn't be still with us otherwise, i guess.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2020, at 16:10:45
In reply to Re: stockpiling and compliance with public health, posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2020, at 15:46:30
the minister did day 'we invested in a portfolio of vaccines'. eventually. better late than never. the words are in our vocabulary, now.
also... to be fair... we are not supporting the Oxfam idea that countries be allowed to break / violate patent / trademark / copyright on the vaccines that have just been developed. again, it's good to see nz finally showing some respect for intellectual property (likely precisely because it invested in development for the first time ever).
we are being strong-armed into more climate change stuff, too. we very very very very much need to be seen to be being strong-armed into more climate change stuff. the local farmers and growers etc etc need to believe that the people responsible are far away and aren't politicians they voted for etc.
Fauci's job was to advocate for public health. And he did. And he did that well. For best practice.
But there are other considerations...
Yeah.
Politics... Freedoms and powers...
Our public health advocates are beloved by politicians and by the people. I guess that is an indicator that they aren't acting in the interests of public health. It's a political role, here. But one that is the same no matter who is in government. So it's... Yeah...
And it seemed to mostly be about placating the public. Saying that there were masks. Saying that there were flu vaccines. Then repeatedly and regularly hearing back from people that the supplies were not getting to the people. So then... What's the hold up? Where are the supplies? Who is hoarding them? Oh, they had to be thrown away because they had expired / weren't fit for purpose. Literally. Only the ones that didn't fit most people were left. That was the stock-pile...
Posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2020, at 16:38:26
In reply to to be fair..., posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2020, at 16:10:45
It is a bit hard to know what an ethical distribution would look like. Even just considering fairness in isolation from other factors.
I mean...
Suppose I am looking out for my own interests. Do I want the vaccine as soon as possible? Or would it be better for me to wait a bit while more others are vaccinated so if there are problems they can be sorted out before it's my turn?
Hard to know, really.
And so on...
I do feel motivated to learn stats so I can make informed decisions.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 13, 2020, at 21:21:54
In reply to distribution, posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2020, at 16:38:26
It kind of does make sense to bundle healthcare providers with people living in institutional care as the first round.
At least, the way I've been reading the story in the US it kind of makes sense.
There were calls for volunteers when the vaccines were in development. And healthcare workers volunteered, often. And healthy volunteers. And... As a volunteer maybe you got something ineffective. Or maybe you got nothing at all. Or maybe you got something unpleasant with side-effects. But volunteering was probably a good idea (if one was looking out for oneself in a narrow sense)...
If people target the vulnerable then it kind of... Well... It gets me worried that they are targeting them for nefarious ends. Because... That's how we do. Often. In society. For really really reals. So to bundle the most vulnerable with health-care workers... People who are informed and knowledgeable (presumably). Who are best placed to say whether it is a good idea to get a vaccine (presumbaly).
Who want them. Who have them. Who tell others about their experience.
It does make sense.
And to sort of bundle things like that. Roll out to more government workers. Teachers and police. And some more vulnerable people.
To sort of bundle.
Diversification.
Yeah.
I see.
Sort of. An inkling.
I can't think of a better way of doing it.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 13, 2020, at 21:28:04
In reply to Re: distribution, posted by alexandra_k on December 13, 2020, at 21:21:54
and even the development 'portfolio'. in the sense of funding a couple of the best bets (established record) of different types of kinds of vaccines. a couple live attenuated. a couple based on proteins. a couple based on rna etc. so we get to learn about the differences between the different vaccines. so going into the future. so we can develop better vaccines for more and different things going into the future.
i think (but i'm not sure) the rna ones are... uh... more expensive? newer technology? something like that. i'm curious... about how the moderna one does. i think it was an expensive bet... but then the one we can really learn the most about (from a scientific development sense) with respect to the future...
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2020, at 22:57:07
In reply to Re: distribution, posted by alexandra_k on December 13, 2020, at 21:28:04
oh no no no no no no no it doesn't...
there's a (predicatable) element of 'get in there first'.
and there's an unfortunate surplus of people in aged care institutions / facilities.
i probably like to think or imagine that things are further advanced from what they are... with respect to our having knowledge of the 'right' vaccine dosages for different populations...
so... the robustly healthy hispanic and black and every minority group under the sun helping you helping you helping myself to you first line front of the cue healthcare worker...
paired with the, uh... what? what are we pairing that vaccine dosage with, again?
we pair them -- right??
the bolshy 'we are taking the vaccines because we have the opportunity in the name of equity and we have the brain power to believe that first in the cue is best and that is why we are placed where we are in the cue...'
people.
and other people, too...
you gotta have some faith in smart and ethical and well motivated people...
some brain-power...
and it's still about biding time...
This is the end of the thread.
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