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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 20:23:57
So what's been going on with health care? Is it true insurance companies and lobbyists trump the Obama admin. making progress just as with the Clinton Admin?
It just seems so simple, and I am not uneduated about public policy. I realize the heatlh care system and reform is a huge process, but it seems so clear that insuring the uninsured will save $$ in the long run (medical bankruptcies, education, hospitals, etc.). Statistics show this...I know statistics lie...but you gotta pull information from somewhere.
I mean why not use existing systems (Medicaid; federal employees health insurance) to provide health care to the uninsured till the long-term problems are fixed? I don't understnd it; these systems are already in place; the naysayers against uinversal health care need not worry. At least by allowing the unisured the option of buying or sliding scale-buying of the federal employees or medicaid system will save money NOW. I don't understand the resistance. What is going on? What is with Sebelus (sp?)?
Haven't read the news, unfortuantely, have not been following. Can anyone sum this up? it's very disheartening. Again.
Posted by bleauberry on July 19, 2009, at 19:37:23
In reply to Obama Admin. + Health Care, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 20:23:57
Obama-care is very bad news.
First off, we are in the deepest economic recession since the Great Depression. This is absolutely not a time to make any big changes. This is a time to be focused like lazer beam on getting the little people back in action, which will in turn bail out the big guys when the little guys start paying mortgages and buying cars again. The economy is priority number one. Everything cannot be done at the same time. Nothing should be attempted until the economy is on stable ground again.
The health care system will cost huge sums of money. The evidence is all over the world in countries that have socialized medicine. When a politician says costs will not increase, they are either pitifully ignorant, hugely arrogant, or lying through their teeth.
One of the nation's deepest economic downturns is not the time to take on any risk, and would require a madman to raise taxes during such a time. A fool of all fools.
So you need to see your psychiatrist once a month and you would like to take part in choosing your medication. But you might need to see him sooner if something goes wrong. Well guess what, you probably won't get to see him but once every 3 months, and you will not have much choice in medicine. Actually, you don't have a choice in the doctor either. If he stinks or you don't like him, too bad, you don't get another one. If you have bad side effects, deny the treatment, or whatever, they won't be able to do much to help you. You are a guinnea pig without a say. The few powerful rule the lives of the many not-powerful.
On page 16 of the 1000 page document it says in fancy wording that if you have your own health care before the law is passed, you can keep it. But you cannot get new health insurance after the law is passed. If you don't already have it, you are automatically forcefully enrolled in national health without a choice. You never get your own doctor again. If you have health insurance with your job, and then lose your job, well, you are screwed. Now since it is past the time the law was passed, you can't get new insurance.
While the politicians lie through smiles saying you will have a choice, obviously the above paragraph shows you will not. Within a few years most insurance companies will be gone.
So you smoke, you are 55, and you just discovered cancer which has a good chance of being cured. You will probably die from it. Since you smoked, your cancer coverage is denieid.
So you are old and now you have diabetes. Same thing as above.
And now you have heart disease. Smoke. Overweight. You made the wrong choices. Sorry, we can't treat you. You're just going to die anyway.
Think I'm making this stuff up. This is exactly what happens in countries that have national health care.
Not to mention taxes. The absolute cheapest this costs in any country doing it is 50% of your paycheck. I think paying my own health insurance is a lot cheaper than that. And I can choose my own doctor when and where I want. You won't be able to doctor shop if you don't like your doctor.
People from national health care countries flock to the USA to gladly pay for the operation, medicine, or whatever it is they need, that they are on a waiting list of 6 months to get in their own home country.
All that said, there is one country on the planet that does it right. It costs a lot, but it is a good system. That is Germany. If the USA is to do this, they should model it on Germany. To go about it their own way and try to reinvent the wheel would be disaster.
This country was founded and based on freedom for everyone. National health care takes away vast amounts of freedom. This country was founded because the former country had a government that had too much power over the people. A national health care system would erase the entire purpose this country was founded, and once again we would be back under the eyes of an all too powerful government run by the few. This is a massive power grab.
The inate laws of competition keep things as efficient and costly as can be. When competition in the free market place is removed, quality goes down, service goes down, research and development go down, costs go up.
If the country ever gets national health care, and I sure hope it doesn't, then every politician including the president should be required to follow the same rules as everyone else. No special favors. National is national.
The poorest of people, even street people, can get medical treatment any time they want. Stories of bankruptcies are bogus. All hospitals need or want is some kind of effort to make regular payments. I owed a hospital $22,000. I sent them $10 a month, the best I could do. It would never be paid off obviously. But it was the regular effort that counted. A couple years later they said I was fine, the debt had been forgiven, no more need to send anymor money.
I like having choices. National health care takes most of those away. Some guy with coke bottle glasses in a fancy suit and a plush office will tell you how to run your life and you have no say about it.
Posted by bleauberry on July 19, 2009, at 20:01:22
In reply to Obama Admin. + Health Care, posted by garnet71 on June 7, 2009, at 20:23:57
I do believe there should be a safety net health care program for the poor. We can already pay for that.
The billions of dollars spent on the supposed stimulus package did nothing to help real people. It padded the wallets of the few at the top of the totem pole. That same money would have been much wiser spent, and did a lot more for the economy, by spending it on the small people, the real people, the average people, the ones that make this country tick. A health care program for the poor would have been a beautiful way to spend that money we didn't have. I mean, if we are going to borrow ourselves into debt deeper than the universe, we might as well do it in a way that helps the small people. Right?
Say for example a single person makes less than $20,000 a year. He/she should have free care. Someone in the $30 and up range can most likely fund their own. The threshold should increase for each family member.
The State I live in already has it. Many states do. We don't need a national program to do what states are already doing. For example in my State, a family of 3 that makes less than $35,000 doesn't have to pay a dime to see a doctor, get medicines, or go to the hospital. And they have a pretty good choice of options for treatment. Lots of freedom.
I see no sense in duplicating a service that is already being done and we are already paying taxes for. I see no sense in having to pay more out of my paycheck for something we have already paid for.
States that do not already have such a program should be made to do that. That would be my version of a national health care system. It should be funded and controlled at the State level, and be directed at only those that cannot afford health care, not directed at the entire country. Why should we pay taxes for national health care for someone who makes $100,000 a year?
All my points have been from the patient's point of view. How about the doctors. They will fare badly as well. Their workload will increase, but they will be paid less money. How many people would like that to happen at their own job. Work harder, take a cut in pay. And in addition, have some suit tell you how to treat your patients. You can't use your creativity anymore. You have to do it by the book, whatever idiot wrote the book. No more practicing medicine the way you see is best. Now you have to practice medicine the way some government officials decided you should, who know nothing about medicine, and you are going to work harder, longer, more stressful, hand tied, and your paycheck just got smaller.
Sounds like a good deal to me. Not.
Posted by Zyprexa on August 4, 2009, at 19:59:16
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care, posted by bleauberry on July 19, 2009, at 19:37:23
> Obama-care is very bad news.
>No it is not!
> First off, we are in the deepest economic recession since the Great Depression. This is absolutely not a time to make any big changes. This is a time to be focused like lazer beam on getting the little people back in action, which will in turn bail out the big guys when the little guys start paying mortgages and buying cars again. The economy is priority number one. Everything cannot be done at the same time. Nothing should be attempted until the economy is on stable ground again.
>Health care reform will help us out of recession. Preventing people from going bankrupt. And bringing down the cost of health care.
> The health care system will cost huge sums of money. The evidence is all over the world in countries that have socialized medicine. When a politician says costs will not increase, they are either pitifully ignorant, hugely arrogant, or lying through their teeth.
>Health care already cost huge sums of money. I spend half my income on health care alown. Not to mention that I can't even GET private insurance. I have to depend on the govenment for health insurance. The private guys won't insure me.
> One of the nation's deepest economic downturns is not the time to take on any risk, and would require a madman to raise taxes during such a time. A fool of all fools.
There is no risk. People need health insurance. It would be a risk to go without it.
>
> So you need to see your psychiatrist once a month and you would like to take part in choosing your medication. But you might need to see him sooner if something goes wrong. Well guess what, you probably won't get to see him but once every 3 months, and you will not have much choice in medicine. Actually, you don't have a choice in the doctor either. If he stinks or you don't like him, too bad, you don't get another one. If you have bad side effects, deny the treatment, or whatever, they won't be able to do much to help you. You are a guinnea pig without a say. The few powerful rule the lives of the many not-powerful.Its the powerfull that doesn't want to give the poor health insurance. They can afford there own. I have government health insurance and I can see any doctor in their network, just like with privaate health insureance. I still pick my meds, and I can go as often as I want.
>
> On page 16 of the 1000 page document it says in fancy wording that if you have your own health care before the law is passed, you can keep it. But you cannot get new health insurance after the law is passed. If you don't already have it, you are automatically forcefully enrolled in national health without a choice. You never get your own doctor again. If you have health insurance with your job, and then lose your job, well, you are screwed. Now since it is past the time the law was passed, you can't get new insurance.Where do you think all the doctors are going to go? Why wouldn't you get to see your own doctor? I start medicare in one month and I get to keep both my doctors. I would say with the private system, if you lose your job you are screewed, because you won't have any insurance.
>
> While the politicians lie through smiles saying you will have a choice, obviously the above paragraph shows you will not. Within a few years most insurance companies will be gone.GOOD!
I'm from canada by the way. I had no wait to go into the mental hospital. And I was covered for as long as I needed. Which was 6 month in one year. You would be lucky to get that down here.
>
> So you smoke, you are 55, and you just discovered cancer which has a good chance of being cured. You will probably die from it. Since you smoked, your cancer coverage is denieid.Thats a lie.
Smokers with no insurance end up in the ER and cost the government and private insurance Billions. Do you like paying for it with your private insurance payments going up to compensate? Why do you think they tax the hell out of ciggaretts.>
> So you are old and now you have diabetes. Same thing as above.If you are old and have diabettes good luck getting private insurance to insure you. They wouldn't for me. I had to go on public insurance. And guess what they would insure me for $300/month. Private when they were still willing to insure me was $1500/month.
>
> And now you have heart disease. Smoke. Overweight. You made the wrong choices. Sorry, we can't treat you. You're just going to die anyway.Same thing here they won't insure you. Govenment will.
>
> Think I'm making this stuff up. This is exactly what happens in countries that have national health care.YES! You are making it up.
>
> Not to mention taxes. The absolute cheapest this costs in any country doing it is 50% of your paycheck. I think paying my own health insurance is a lot cheaper than that. And I can choose my own doctor when and where I want. You won't be able to doctor shop if you don't like your doctor.Doctor shop?! And you trying to pain killers or some thing?? Yes 50% in Canada. But well worth it. Its still cheaper that paying 50% of your income after taxes. Atleast in Canada you get more than just health care for that 50%. In the US it could be 50% on healthcare alown!! You are already paying 1/3 of you income on taxes. Do you like paying anouther 50% of what is left over on top of it????
>
> People from national health care countries flock to the USA to gladly pay for the operation, medicine, or whatever it is they need, that they are on a waiting list of 6 months to get in their own home country.People from the usa go to Canada too and other countries for cheaper service.
>
> All that said, there is one country on the planet that does it right. It costs a lot, but it is a good system. That is Germany. If the USA is to do this, they should model it on Germany. To go about it their own way and try to reinvent the wheel would be disaster.I think they should have a government health insurance only, that would be as high quality care for all.
>
> This country was founded and based on freedom for everyone. National health care takes away vast amounts of freedom. This country was founded because the former country had a government that had too much power over the people. A national health care system would erase the entire purpose this country was founded, and once again we would be back under the eyes of an all too powerful government run by the few. This is a massive power grab.Freedom from what? Higher cost service for all that can afford it.
>
> The inate laws of competition keep things as efficient and costly as can be. When competition in the free market place is removed, quality goes down, service goes down, research and development go down, costs go up.I think you have it all wrong. Are you working got the health insurance companies?
>
> If the country ever gets national health care, and I sure hope it doesn't, then every politician including the president should be required to follow the same rules as everyone else. No special favors. National is national.I agree.
>
> The poorest of people, even street people, can get medical treatment any time they want. Stories of bankruptcies are bogus. All hospitals need or want is some kind of effort to make regular payments. I owed a hospital $22,000. I sent them $10 a month, the best I could do. It would never be paid off obviously. But it was the regular effort that counted. A couple years later they said I was fine, the debt had been forgiven, no more need to send anymor money.Wouldn't it have been nicer to not have to pay a thing? Poor can get coverage from the Government, true there. Its the people in the middle that can't get insurance.
>
> I like having choices. National health care takes most of those away. Some guy with coke bottle glasses in a fancy suit and a plush office will tell you how to run your life and you have no say about it.Choice to get health care is good? What if you need it? Should you just die???
Posted by Deneb on August 6, 2009, at 13:46:23
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care *Good News!!!*, posted by Zyprexa on August 4, 2009, at 19:59:16
I am not sure of all the details with the new plan proposed in the U.S., but I live in Canada and I like the healthcare system here.
I see my pdoc once a week for therapy and meds and it is great. You never hear of people getting turned down for healthcare or putting health problems aside because you cannot afford the doctor or have no insurance.
The rich and the poor get the same service here, as it should be. I think the service is great.
Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 2:33:09
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care *Good News!!!*, posted by Zyprexa on August 4, 2009, at 19:59:16
>> One of the nation's deepest economic downturns is not the time to take on any risk, and would require a madman to raise taxes during such a time. A fool of all fools.
In the good times they cut taxes and spend the money on weapons.
When the bad times come they say that there's no money.
Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 2:38:54
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care *Good News!!!*, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 2:33:09
>When the bad times come they say that there's no money.
That's not quite right..... When the bad times come they give it to the people who made it all happen.
Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 15:15:20
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care *Good News!!!*, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 2:38:54
There's all sorts of ways of seeing this, of course.......
>As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and were saying not just no, but hell no!
>The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obamas death panel so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their level of productivity in society, whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
>Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.
>Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the presidents health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.
>We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life well ever see on this earth. Lets stop and think and make our voices heard before its too late.
>- Sarah Palin
This is the end of the thread.
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