Posted by Zyprexa on August 4, 2009, at 19:59:16
In reply to Re: Obama Admin. + Health Care, posted by bleauberry on July 19, 2009, at 19:37:23
> Obama-care is very bad news.
>No it is not!
> First off, we are in the deepest economic recession since the Great Depression. This is absolutely not a time to make any big changes. This is a time to be focused like lazer beam on getting the little people back in action, which will in turn bail out the big guys when the little guys start paying mortgages and buying cars again. The economy is priority number one. Everything cannot be done at the same time. Nothing should be attempted until the economy is on stable ground again.
>Health care reform will help us out of recession. Preventing people from going bankrupt. And bringing down the cost of health care.
> The health care system will cost huge sums of money. The evidence is all over the world in countries that have socialized medicine. When a politician says costs will not increase, they are either pitifully ignorant, hugely arrogant, or lying through their teeth.
>Health care already cost huge sums of money. I spend half my income on health care alown. Not to mention that I can't even GET private insurance. I have to depend on the govenment for health insurance. The private guys won't insure me.
> One of the nation's deepest economic downturns is not the time to take on any risk, and would require a madman to raise taxes during such a time. A fool of all fools.
There is no risk. People need health insurance. It would be a risk to go without it.
>
> So you need to see your psychiatrist once a month and you would like to take part in choosing your medication. But you might need to see him sooner if something goes wrong. Well guess what, you probably won't get to see him but once every 3 months, and you will not have much choice in medicine. Actually, you don't have a choice in the doctor either. If he stinks or you don't like him, too bad, you don't get another one. If you have bad side effects, deny the treatment, or whatever, they won't be able to do much to help you. You are a guinnea pig without a say. The few powerful rule the lives of the many not-powerful.Its the powerfull that doesn't want to give the poor health insurance. They can afford there own. I have government health insurance and I can see any doctor in their network, just like with privaate health insureance. I still pick my meds, and I can go as often as I want.
>
> On page 16 of the 1000 page document it says in fancy wording that if you have your own health care before the law is passed, you can keep it. But you cannot get new health insurance after the law is passed. If you don't already have it, you are automatically forcefully enrolled in national health without a choice. You never get your own doctor again. If you have health insurance with your job, and then lose your job, well, you are screwed. Now since it is past the time the law was passed, you can't get new insurance.Where do you think all the doctors are going to go? Why wouldn't you get to see your own doctor? I start medicare in one month and I get to keep both my doctors. I would say with the private system, if you lose your job you are screewed, because you won't have any insurance.
>
> While the politicians lie through smiles saying you will have a choice, obviously the above paragraph shows you will not. Within a few years most insurance companies will be gone.GOOD!
I'm from canada by the way. I had no wait to go into the mental hospital. And I was covered for as long as I needed. Which was 6 month in one year. You would be lucky to get that down here.
>
> So you smoke, you are 55, and you just discovered cancer which has a good chance of being cured. You will probably die from it. Since you smoked, your cancer coverage is denieid.Thats a lie.
Smokers with no insurance end up in the ER and cost the government and private insurance Billions. Do you like paying for it with your private insurance payments going up to compensate? Why do you think they tax the hell out of ciggaretts.>
> So you are old and now you have diabetes. Same thing as above.If you are old and have diabettes good luck getting private insurance to insure you. They wouldn't for me. I had to go on public insurance. And guess what they would insure me for $300/month. Private when they were still willing to insure me was $1500/month.
>
> And now you have heart disease. Smoke. Overweight. You made the wrong choices. Sorry, we can't treat you. You're just going to die anyway.Same thing here they won't insure you. Govenment will.
>
> Think I'm making this stuff up. This is exactly what happens in countries that have national health care.YES! You are making it up.
>
> Not to mention taxes. The absolute cheapest this costs in any country doing it is 50% of your paycheck. I think paying my own health insurance is a lot cheaper than that. And I can choose my own doctor when and where I want. You won't be able to doctor shop if you don't like your doctor.Doctor shop?! And you trying to pain killers or some thing?? Yes 50% in Canada. But well worth it. Its still cheaper that paying 50% of your income after taxes. Atleast in Canada you get more than just health care for that 50%. In the US it could be 50% on healthcare alown!! You are already paying 1/3 of you income on taxes. Do you like paying anouther 50% of what is left over on top of it????
>
> People from national health care countries flock to the USA to gladly pay for the operation, medicine, or whatever it is they need, that they are on a waiting list of 6 months to get in their own home country.People from the usa go to Canada too and other countries for cheaper service.
>
> All that said, there is one country on the planet that does it right. It costs a lot, but it is a good system. That is Germany. If the USA is to do this, they should model it on Germany. To go about it their own way and try to reinvent the wheel would be disaster.I think they should have a government health insurance only, that would be as high quality care for all.
>
> This country was founded and based on freedom for everyone. National health care takes away vast amounts of freedom. This country was founded because the former country had a government that had too much power over the people. A national health care system would erase the entire purpose this country was founded, and once again we would be back under the eyes of an all too powerful government run by the few. This is a massive power grab.Freedom from what? Higher cost service for all that can afford it.
>
> The inate laws of competition keep things as efficient and costly as can be. When competition in the free market place is removed, quality goes down, service goes down, research and development go down, costs go up.I think you have it all wrong. Are you working got the health insurance companies?
>
> If the country ever gets national health care, and I sure hope it doesn't, then every politician including the president should be required to follow the same rules as everyone else. No special favors. National is national.I agree.
>
> The poorest of people, even street people, can get medical treatment any time they want. Stories of bankruptcies are bogus. All hospitals need or want is some kind of effort to make regular payments. I owed a hospital $22,000. I sent them $10 a month, the best I could do. It would never be paid off obviously. But it was the regular effort that counted. A couple years later they said I was fine, the debt had been forgiven, no more need to send anymor money.Wouldn't it have been nicer to not have to pay a thing? Poor can get coverage from the Government, true there. Its the people in the middle that can't get insurance.
>
> I like having choices. National health care takes most of those away. Some guy with coke bottle glasses in a fancy suit and a plush office will tell you how to run your life and you have no say about it.Choice to get health care is good? What if you need it? Should you just die???
poster:Zyprexa
thread:899891
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20090221/msgs/910298.html