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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:10
In reply to What are you doing to save money ?, posted by lemonaide on October 3, 2008, at 13:36:53
The wealthiest 400 people in America have/own more then
"middle class" 150 million Americans combined. Something is not quite right with this picture. Hmmm.Jay
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:11
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider...., posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 6, 2008, at 2:50:14
I know lots of people personally who are worth a lot more than I am. Unless I plan to rob them (which I don't), considering our relative wealth won't help me a lot.
Some people start up companies that change the world, and make a heck of a lot of money doing it. I haven't the resolve and courage and dedication to do it, even if I stumbled across a brilliant idea. Other people are born to incredible wealth, tho thanks to the inheritance tax and simple arithmetic given that most people have more than one child, that is rarer than it used to be. Other people are paid tons and tons of money by people like me to act or play ball. Obviously they must give us something in return for our dollars. If we don't want these people to be rich, we could boycott companies or persons who are wealthy, I suppose. But then I wouldn't have my Microsoft operating system.
The economy hasn't hit us *yet*, but we're feeling the pinch of skyrocketing insurance rates, costly home repairs, and high gas prices (which of course affect the price of everything else). Plus the economy is hovering in the backs of our minds. We're eating out less. I always consolidated my errands mainly because I dislike driving, but now I have added incentive to question trips. I'm choosing not to buy things that I don't immediately need.
I don't envy others their wealth. I sometimes feel guilty about being comfortable when others aren't. And I recognize that it has at least as much to do with luck as with the choices I've made in life.
I'm a poor candidate for revolutionary. But if I did want to be one, that would be best discussed on Politics.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:11
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider.... » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Dinah on October 6, 2008, at 9:31:40
Well, we are talking a hand-full vs. millions. There is *no* comparison. Here are a couple of 'editorials' from a faith/culture based magazine I subscribe to. They address the morality and greed/decadence issue.
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Principles in an Unprincipled Crisis
by Jim Wallis 09-29-2008
The meltdown of the nations financial systems has stunned the country, and the imminent dangers to the entire economy have placed many Americans in the deeply anxious position of both confusion and fearwith many already suffering and many more feeling very vulnerable. Even many economic experts say they dont really know what is going on or what to expect next. The economic and political chaos of last week was breathtaking.We can now say that the crisis is both structural and spiritual: a combination of a bad economic philosophy called deregulation and a bad cultural ethic that has encouraged and rewarded greed. The solutions going forward will be a combination of both social regulation and self-regulation. Restoring both the idea of the common good (which has been lost) and the practice of moral behavior in regard to money (which has been forgotten) are now critical to our future.
I have been writing and saying for years that budgets are moral documentshow we allocate and spend our money indicates our prioritiesfrom families to nations. As the bailout of Wall Street has been debated and a new proposal is now likely to be voted on even this week, we have the opportunity to examine its principles. While the Bush administration first asked for a $700 billion blank check to buy bad debt from Wall Street in order to rescue the economy from collapse, many questioned its underlying principles.
Many have noted how angry the American public is about how their lives and futures have been put in great jeopardy by economic giants who have placed their personal greed over the public good. I suspect that God is angry too. As new proposals are introduced and debated this week, I would suggest they be examined by the following principles rooted in biblical justice and the common good.
The reckless and selfish financial managers and Wall Street CEOs most responsible for this financial disaster should not be rewarded but brought under public accountability and, where appropriate, receive actual punishment for their behavior. Not only should there be no excessive compensation for the CEOs of firms that now need public assistance, but there should be a whole new level of public oversight as to the price of that assistance.
Any new proposal for financial rescue should benefit the taxpayers as much, or more, than the financial institutions; it should also give the public a real share and future stake in those institutions and their assets, if and when the market recovers.
Any new proposal should focus as much upon those homeowners whose houses have been foreclosed as those investors whose assets have lost their value. And the rescue should include those who are losing their fragile security, as well as those who are losing their excessive profits.
Bailing out the banks and the financial managers whose behavior has caused this crisis, while millions of homeowners are losing their homes and their jobs, violates any basic or biblical sense of justice. The Bible says that which you sow, you should also reapnot that which you sow shall be bailed out while others reap the destruction that you have caused.The idea of bailing out Wall Street raises many issues and problems of oversight, transparency, accountability, and fairness which we should all be examining in the new proposals this week.
The Wall Street crisis presents us with both danger and opportunity (the two Chinese symbols of which combine to form the symbol for crisis), which is to suggest that this could also be a teachable moment of rethinking most basic assumptions, values, habits, and practices that have gone unexamined for far too longhence the present crisis of, yes, biblical proportions. Perhaps this crisis will prompt the nations congregations and pulpits to preach again about the biblical principles regarding money, work, credit, lifestyle, generosity, stewardship, and justice. Maybe its time for a new Sunday school curriculum on our economic decisions and practicesan adult Sunday school curriculum introduced in the churches of both Wall Street and Main Street.
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Repent, the End is Near!
by Jim Wallis 09-30-2008
We are all familiar with the crazy-looking street preacher in some public square haranguing every passerby with a message of doom and gloom while holding up a sign that reads, Repent, the end is near!Well, as members of Congress go home to their districts in honor of the Jewish holiday Rosh Hashanah, the New Year, it might be appropriate for their constituents to welcome them home with just such a placard.
You see, this Jewish holiday begins a 10-day period during which Jews spend time in self-reflection and repentance, particularly in seeking to mend relations with those they may have wronged during the year. The 10 days culminate on Yom Kippur, when one repents of sins against God. Judaism believes that while God forgives sins against God, each person must repent and seek forgiveness from other people against whom they have sinned.
And I cant think of a better thing for members of Congress - Jewish or not - to do than repent, because the end is indeed near. Last week, Cokie Roberts suggested that the financial managers who helped precipitate this economic crisis be paraded down Wall Street in sackcloth and ashes. Now it may be time for their congressional colleagues to join them.
In the midst of a crisis that is both structural and spiritual, it is indeed appropriate for us all to reflect on what repentance means. Biblically, it means a turning around, a change in direction, a reversing of ones course and beginning to walk an entirely new path. After the House of Representatives rejected the most current rescue plan for the economy, and the stock market immediately lost $1.2 trillion in value, including in peoples retirement funds and college savings accounts, some repentance does seem to be in order - both that this was such a flawed bill and that Washington and Wall Street allowed the financial situation to so deteriorate that a flawed bill was painfully necessary.
But what might members of Congress repent of?
-Perhaps the putting of other things, including ideology, re-election, partisan advantage, and public posturing ahead of the national interest and the common good - not just yesterday, but for years.
-Perhaps the looking after their own interests, including their own financial success and career goals, over the interests of their most ordinary constituents.
-Perhaps paying more attention to the financial benefits to the countrys financial institutions (that, in most cases, also significantly benefit them) than to the benefits coming to the average Americans who vote for them.
-Perhaps by focusing more on a Wall Street bailout than to the relief of those suffering disastrous housing foreclosures or the loss of jobs; and preferring a top-down rescue rather than a bottom-up one.
-Perhaps by substituting political calculation for political leadership, crying for credibility, partisan blaming for moral authority, and rejecting imperfect solutions for no solutions at all.
And there may be some things on a more personal level that congressional members may also need to repent of that might clear their heads and hearts for more effective leadership.
As for the rest of us, perhaps we could also reflect on our need for repentance.
-For being seduced into lifestyles beyond our means and contrary to our religious traditions of simplicity and stewardship.
-For living on far too much credit, rather than living within our limits.
-For sometimes putting economic values ahead of family values.
-For letting the relentless assault of advertising and a culture of consumption to seed in us the sin of covetousness.
-For valuing our lives too much by the cultural values of worth, instead of by the values of the kingdom of God.
And, for the students at Harvard (where I sometimes teach), the fact that half of you want to go into investment banking as a career is a sign that something has gone wrong with the culture. Repent, and make sure your vocation benefits the common good.
Maybe we should all go to synagogue or church in the next 10 days in order to repent. Because if we dont, the end of a lot of things may indeed be near.
Posted by Cass on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:11
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider.... » Dinah, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 6, 2008, at 16:13:01
I don't use the bible as a holy text, but I think there is a lot of wisdom in the bible. There's the scripture that says, "The love of money is the root of all evil." Sometimes I wonder if that passage would be more accurately interpreted to read, "Greed is the root of all evil." Greed causes people to overlook the sacredness of everything they destroy including the environment, human well-being, animal well-being, community, you name it. Greed is a great destroyer.
Posted by Sigismund on October 6, 2008, at 21:03:41
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider...., posted by Cass on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:11
What did I hear on the news this morning?
Um.....1/3 of Australian mammals at risk of extinction in the next few decades?
The chairman of Lehman Bros was given $700M in bonuses over the last 5 years?
The details hardly matter.
Last nights news was way worse, and I've already forgotten it.
Posted by Nadezda on October 6, 2008, at 23:35:06
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider...., posted by Sigismund on October 6, 2008, at 21:03:41
And it probably will get worse before it gets better.
Nadezda
Posted by Sigismund on October 7, 2008, at 3:27:19
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider.... » Sigismund, posted by Nadezda on October 6, 2008, at 23:35:06
Maybe the economic thing is like a bushfire?
Nothing really works, and then one day it burns itself out?
Posted by Hygieia's Bowl on October 8, 2008, at 19:41:11
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider...., posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 6, 2008, at 20:02:10
Aren't you in Canada?
How does the wealthy versus middle class stack up, number's-wise, in your country, out of curiosity?
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 8, 2008, at 21:07:57
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider.... » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Hygieia's Bowl on October 8, 2008, at 19:41:11
> Aren't you in Canada?
>
> How does the wealthy versus middle class stack up, number's-wise, in your country, out of curiosity?Far from perfect. The rich still control a lot of the wealth, but we have a pretty good income tax system that redistributes the wealth down to the middle class and lower class. But, our Conservative gov't is threatening that with 50 billion dollars in tax breaks for corporations.(If they get re-elected as a Majority). Their numbers are thankfully falling in the polls, so we will have to see.
Jay
Posted by Nadezda on October 9, 2008, at 15:25:37
In reply to Re: a little fact you may want to consider...., posted by Sigismund on October 7, 2008, at 3:27:19
No pun intended?
Nadezda
This is the end of the thread.
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