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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Declan on September 19, 2006, at 19:39:54
The centre left here, or rather the ALP, countered the PMs clever move in raising the issue of Australian Values (for immigrants) by suggesting that a committment to Australian Values be put in passports. The ALP not only made the mistake of arguing on the PMs terms, but tried to outflank him on the right.
Australian Values might be a good name for a radio show. Australian Corporate Values deserve a mention, which lately involve cutting minimum wages while some executives receive tens of millions of dollars in severance payments. No need to mention race.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:17:10
In reply to Australian Values, posted by Declan on September 19, 2006, at 19:39:54
Do you know what the 'official' Australian values are?
I went to a friends citizenship ceremony the other day. She needed to get citizenship for security clearance working as a public servant. She holds dual NZ / Australian.
I didn't know voting was compulsory. I was surprised that people were handed out their voting forms as part of the ceremony. They had to full them out and they were collected up.
I wonder what the political outcome of enforced voting in the US would be? I wonder whether enforced votes are likely to happen any time soon? I wonder why not?
I'm not sure how I feel about enforced voting... To start with I was slightly... Okay I'll admit it... Outraged. But then after considering the people who are least likely to vote and how many of them there can be... The upshot is that it is a fairly good idea I think.
I even caught myself singing the Australian National Anthem. That felt really very strange... You know I used to think the Aussie National Anthem was 'Waltzing Matilda' until I got to High School lol.
It was a fairly interesting ceremony...
No pledging allegiance to the queen (of England). NZ ceremonies involve pledging allegiance to the queen and her heirs or hairs if your english isn't so good lol. What freaked me slightly was how you commit to defending Aussie too... Thinking the draft there. I guess being a citizen makes you eligable for draft. That is unfortunate. Comes with the turf though I guess.:-)
Posted by Declan on September 20, 2006, at 14:46:22
In reply to Re: Australian Values, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:17:10
I know enough about real Australian values to know that they would never have been articulated by politicians. But the penetration of the market into culture has been so extreme that I'm not sure I know what's what anymore. No problem about compulsory voting though; just a problem about the available choice.
I think official Australian values boil down to who can con the people best with appeals to mateship, a concept so used that even to type it feels embarrassing. Just the concept for the Prime Minister.
Australia had, and maybe still does, egalitarian authoritarian ironic irreverent values.
The PMs great skill has been to portray himself as part of the mainstream.
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2006, at 0:33:42
In reply to Re: Australian Values, posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2006, at 6:17:10
>
> I didn't know voting was compulsory. I was surprised that people were handed out their voting forms as part of the ceremony. They had to full them out and they were collected up.
>>
> I'm not sure how I feel about enforced voting... To start with I was slightly... Okay I'll admit it... Outraged.no need... you can write ANYTHING or draw anything you desire on the vote paper... it called an informal vote.
I just want 100% informal votes to get a message across, LOL.. but It'll never happen
Posted by tealady on September 24, 2006, at 0:40:30
In reply to Our land is girt by sea » alexandra_k, posted by Declan on September 20, 2006, at 14:46:22
mateship is kinda lost ?
Isn't dob in the ... whatever, kinda anti- mateship, anti lets support each other and offer help etc?..
I just feel values (like anti stupid authority rules, stand up for what's really fair, give everyone a fair go, etc) have been diluted down and down..OK, so I don't feel like its the same anymore..
Posted by Declan on September 24, 2006, at 1:31:40
In reply to Re: Our land is girt by sea » Declan, posted by tealady on September 24, 2006, at 0:40:30
Hi
It's not the same anymore, is it? The PM (as they say) has been the most successful politician of our lifetimes. (That's pretty civil, isn't it?) Still, I've almost finished "Life and Fate", so by any comparison........ It's just that we're not used to things going downhill.
Declan
Posted by Jost on September 24, 2006, at 14:19:54
In reply to Re: Our land is girt by sea » tealady, posted by Declan on September 24, 2006, at 1:31:40
And here I thought things were always going downhill. Since Juvenal anyway.
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 24, 2006, at 15:28:43
In reply to Re: Our land is girt by sea » Declan, posted by Jost on September 24, 2006, at 14:19:54
I was born in an upswing. In the 50s our parents were grateful that things had become so prosperous and comparatively easy. This lasted until the early 70s. Their children thought them complacent. Nobody talks about complacency these days.
Posted by Jost on September 25, 2006, at 14:31:05
In reply to Re: Our land is girt by sea » Jost, posted by Declan on September 24, 2006, at 15:28:43
No kidding. Grrrrrrr.
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 25, 2006, at 15:30:34
In reply to Re: Our land is from sea to shining sea » Declan, posted by Jost on September 25, 2006, at 14:31:05
Will it be linked to Amazon? Did anyone ever read it? At least Althuser had some easy to understand scandal. Dodgy ideas like repressive tolerance (I think), but the idea of the power of hegemony....(I'm sure you can finish off this sentence as well as me). "One Dimensional Man". Never got that far into it.
Posted by Declan on September 26, 2006, at 17:50:01
In reply to Re: Our land is from sea to shining sea » Declan, posted by Jost on September 25, 2006, at 14:31:05
Tell me where that comes from. It was used in Jack Straw, I think, a 60s Grateful Dead song, but I saw it in a poem, maybe?
Posted by Jost on September 26, 2006, at 20:32:07
In reply to Re: Our land is from sea to shining sea » Jost, posted by Declan on September 26, 2006, at 17:50:01
Wait, where what comes from?
The sea to shining sea thing? That's from "America the Beautiful"-- not exactly the Grateful Dead.
More like, in grade school where they think you can't get the National Anthem, so they ask you to Sing "America the Beautiful."
O, beau=ti-ful, for spaaaacious skies, for amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties above the fruited plain--
America, American I pledge my oath to Thee:
To guard thy Good with Brotherhood
From Sea to Shining Sea.As a kid, I used to think there must be something called "forspacious"-- wasn't sure what forspacious was, but thought it must be something good.
Then there's Woody Guthrie,
This Land is your Land, This Land is my Land
From Californ-ya to the New York Is-land,
from the redwood forests, to the gulf stream waters--
This land was made for you and me!(At least I think that was Woody Guthie.. I could be wrong)
Then we get to Peter Paul and Mary
Puff the Magic Draaaagon, Lived by the Sea
and... dadada-dadada in the land of Hollalee (?)...um after that, well, unless you like Dylan, you're kinda lost. Unless you like Country Joe and the Fish, but we won't go into that here. ("Give me an" .... oh, never mind...)
Jost
Posted by tealady on September 26, 2006, at 20:38:53
In reply to Re: Our land is from sea to shining sea » Declan, posted by Jost on September 26, 2006, at 20:32:07
As a kid I thought the alphabet was "eL Amen O P".. I couldn't work out what it had to do with praying but we said it everyday after the Lord's prayer.
nor sure if you saw this one
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060809/msgs/689215.html
I couldn't locate it again yesterady..
This is the end of the thread.
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