![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 123. Go back in thread:
Posted by Glydin50 on January 4, 2011, at 16:46:52
In reply to Re: public forum » Glydin50, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 14:02:37
Thanks for answering.
In nine years, I have been aware of two articles written - not authored by Dr. Bob - to be published. I believe both were done with Dr. Bob's awareness and blessing. But... This isn't my site so ...... whatever ..... : )
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 18:11:13
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so., posted by ou812 on January 3, 2011, at 23:06:44
It would nice to think that there isn't as much stigma surrounding mental illness and that it should be out in the open. The stigma is as strong as ever. I lost my last job because I am bipolar and I started to have hallucinations at work. I was totally aware that they were hallucinations, I was not delusional. Ten minutes later the 3 police men were surrounding my cubicle, along with the 2 EMS. I am have never been so humiliated in my life. After that happened they let me go. No more job for me. I will never, ever, EVER be honest about my illness in the workplace again.
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 18:13:13
In reply to Re: public forum » Glydin50, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 14:02:37
> I haven't contacted Dr. Bob myself but I feel that he has enjoyed the publicity of the previous NYT article and by opening a Face Book page and encouraging poster to tweet threads that more public exposure is encouraged. I feel that PB is a toy to be played with (or just observed) when the mood strikes as there have been a few extended periods of his absence where the petri dish has been interesting to watch.
>Who set up a Facebook page? NYT? Dr. Bob?
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 18:17:14
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so., posted by violette on January 4, 2011, at 16:27:44
> ......and people just don't know what the stakes are for another individual who has used or who uses this forum-even if it is some primitive human behavioral experiment devised by Dr. Bob.
>
> Sometimes this place makes me think of those rat swimming experiments.Wow, excellent post Violette!
Posted by gardenergirl on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:23
In reply to Re: public forum » Glydin50, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 14:02:37
> where the petri dish has been interesting to watch.
>Ooh! Ooh! Petri dish microbes! Can I be streptococcus? Pretty please? I think that the chains they form would make me look thinner.
gg
Posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 20:57:13
In reply to Re: public forum, posted by violette on January 4, 2011, at 16:45:24
Do you know Phillipa personally? No, I do not know Phillipa except from the postings. I do know there was a period of time where many posters were sharing their picture(s) here and other personal info that can easily be found in the archives. That really isn't of interest to me.
I think bullying is singling out a person for just being themselves, someone who just going about their business, not harming others. People are just trying to prevent harm to themselves here, is all.
I have to take the latter part of you statement and elaborate that some of the posts seem to exhibit inappropriate or undeveloped coping mechanisms that re-actively lash out to protect themselves as developmental circumstances have conditioned primitive responses. I feel bullying is and can have a various dimensions, degrees, intention and execution. The group dynamic is analogous to a stoning as you mentioned with a handful of posters seeming to kick another when they are down and retreat as quickly when support is needed. I see several different angles in which to observe...As far as the domestic violence support groups you mentioned, I can easily see the paramount importance of anonymity. With the threat of retaliation an ever present fear, I have to stretch to see a similarity with this site; especially with the other general interest boards.
@ Maxime, sorry that you had to experience such a traumatic and humiliating experience at work. That wasn't what I was intending when I was suggesting to bring public awareness to mental illness.
The Face Book page is Dr. Bob's (Robert Hsiung); you can request to be his friend.
Posted by violette on January 4, 2011, at 22:41:48
In reply to Re: public forum, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 20:57:13
ou812,
I'd agree some of the posts here can be related to patterns resulting from developmental circumstances. The need to 'rescue' can also be a result of developmental circumstances; displacement, etc, can happen very quickly when triggered.
I wish people could be lax about identity and mental health. Some of the greatest discriminators in the US: the federal government; non-psych medical institutions. You're preaching to the wrong choir here...
Plus social media has changed alot in the past decade. When this site was created, I never heard of employers searching prospective employees in Facebook, Google...If I owned my own business, I understand enough about mental illness to not be discriminatory. Can't say the same for other employers, who may be ignorant about it. The legality argument does not hold as it happens all the time.
People here know quite a bit about these problems-imo this really isn't the place to advocate for disclosure of MI because the group here is the last to need 'influencing'.
If the domestic violence seems a bit of a stretch, understood, but maybe there are other situations, such as those experienced by other members here, things you've never personally dealt with, that influence our safety concerns? I have my own personal situation. I don't wish to discuss it in detail, but I'd guess if i told you about it, it might have never crossed your mind.
And about those old posts from a decade ago-that was before internet privacy concerns were commonplace issues. This website has become a Limited Liability Corp. (LLC). I wouldn't be surprised if the owner has been sued in civil court for his refusal to delete posts written here that came back to haunt people a decade later. If he hasn't yet been sued, I could bet that he will be in the future.
Still, after this discussion, i firmly believe the concerns posted by Maxime and I are more than reasonable reactions.
It's interesting how people who have never posted on this forum before suddenly have stakes in the content of this website. Enjoy using your microscope.
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 22:43:13
In reply to Re: public forum » ou812, posted by gardenergirl on January 4, 2011, at 18:36:23
> > where the petri dish has been interesting to watch.
> >
>
> Ooh! Ooh! Petri dish microbes! Can I be streptococcus? Pretty please? I think that the chains they form would make me look thinner.
>
> gg
>
>
Not fair! *stomps her feet* I wanted to be streptococcus!!!! Sigh. Now I will have to find something else to be.
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 22:52:44
In reply to Re: public forum » gardenergirl, posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 22:43:13
HA! I found something even better that I can examine in a petri dish. Mario!! I found this on a site http://kotaku.com/5429450/mario-recreated-in-petri-dish
Beat that GG! :p
Posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 23:38:03
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so., posted by violette on January 4, 2011, at 16:27:44
Again, I would like echo what Violette wrote. I have no desire to bully you Phillipa, or anyone else on PB. My only concern is the storing and dissemination of personal information.
Posted by jane d on January 5, 2011, at 4:40:41
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so. » violette, posted by Maxime on January 4, 2011, at 23:38:03
> Again, I would like echo what Violette wrote. I have no desire to bully you Phillipa, or anyone else on PB. My only concern is the storing and dissemination of personal information.
If this is true I really don't understand why you posted here instead of using babblemail or regular email. Obviously you had some kind of off board relationship. Equally obviously you've had some kind of falling out. Now you want something you sent to Phillipa back when you were friends destroyed. Why not just ask her for it in babblemail? What does posting here about it or digging thru the archives for threads from years ago accomplish?
Posted by SLS on January 5, 2011, at 5:38:14
In reply to Re: public forum, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 20:57:13
> I think bullying is singling out a person for just being themselves, someone who just going about their business, not harming others.
Some people can not "be themselves" without harming others.
I don't understand passive-aggressive. I know this is Administration, but could you give me some idea as to what this is all about?
Thanks.
I have become interested to know what are the psychosocial dynamics of Psycho-Babble from the point of view of someone who is more educated in this area than I am. I don't like what is going on here, and I want to know why it is happening.
Thanks again.
I think that these issues are appropriate to be addressed on the Administration board.
I am becoming ever more suspicious that Psycho-Babble has indeed become a social experiment. I imagine that an experiment can be successful without promoting a healthy outcome for its participants (subjects). I can conceive of many experiments that can be performed on this population. I wonder if such an endeavor would be approved by a APA ethics review board.
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on January 5, 2011, at 6:49:55
In reply to Why haven't you left this in babblemail? » Maxime, posted by jane d on January 5, 2011, at 4:40:41
> > Again, I would like echo what Violette wrote. I have no desire to bully you Phillipa, or anyone else on PB. My only concern is the storing and dissemination of personal information.
>
>
> If this is true I really don't understand why you posted here instead of using babblemail or regular email. Obviously you had some kind of off board relationship. Equally obviously you've had some kind of falling out. Now you want something you sent to Phillipa back when you were friends destroyed. Why not just ask her for it in babblemail? What does posting here about it or digging thru the archives for threads from years ago accomplish?Because I think it is something that PB needs to know. If she has my files/information then she possibly has others. I know that at one point she had a lot of files on people. I didn't dig through the archives.
Posted by Maxime on January 5, 2011, at 6:53:10
In reply to Why haven't you left this in babblemail? » Maxime, posted by jane d on January 5, 2011, at 4:40:41
I forgot to add that after what happened in November in Babblemail, my Babblemail is essentially turned off to Phillipa. If she sends me a Babblemail, it gets deleted before I can even see it.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:40:50
In reply to Re: What can I do?, posted by Solstice on January 2, 2011, at 1:54:27
> I don't know that there's any way to actually prevent someone from doing that, other than to simply not participate in anything. I suppose that it doesn't matter whether it's online or IRL, if someone wants to invest the energy into collecting information about others, they can do it within the limits of the law.
What are you saying Phillipa did? I thought the topic of conversation was items sent to Phillipa by email or posted publicly on the board. Are you accusing Phillipa of searching the internet for information on others? I don't see anyplace on board where that is being said. Is someone spreading gossip off board about Phillipa?
> That said, it would feel very creepy to me to find out someone is keeping a file and collecting information about me.
I keep photos sent to me by email, and emails sent to me. I also might bookmark items on occasion, if Babblers have posted links to them. I may even arrange those photos, emails, and links into folders. I like a tidy computer. I routinely keep things friends send me because I care about them. I'm sorry you find my behavior creepy.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:51:08
In reply to Re: Why haven't you left this in babblemail? » jane d, posted by Maxime on January 5, 2011, at 6:49:55
> Because I think it is something that PB needs to know. If she has my files/information then she possibly has others. I know that at one point she had a lot of files on people. I didn't dig through the archives.
You responded to a post over three years old on not one, but two boards.
Your have now stated that your goal is not simply to ask that she get rid of any information she has about you, that you sent her freely, but to make everyone on Babble aware of your charges against her. To warn them. Is it possible that Phillipa sees herself as having equally benign motives for passing on information to others? Whatever your motives, your actions are that of someone spreading information, true or false, about another person.
You've made your point. Repeatedly.
Incidentally, if following site guidelines and avoiding blocks is important to you, a way to warn others without violating civility guidelines might be to say.
"I advise everyone to be very careful with information you don't wish to be public. Don't post it on board and don't send it to others. Emails are no more private than the board. Posters can and do pass on information in emails. If privacy is important to you, be careful what you post on board, send babblemails rather than emails, and don't send anything to another babbler that you wouldn't want known on board."
That is not only unexceptional, it's also completely true. I could endorse a statement like that. Depending on context, perhaps.
You say your pdoc is reading. Does he ever address your behavior? Or just the behavior of others. When I bring in posts, my therapist is always one to address my behavior before he addresses the behavior of others.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:58:21
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so. » ou812, posted by SLS on January 3, 2011, at 20:41:22
Scott, are you ok? I know this is a difficult time for you.
It's not really like what I know of you to make posts like the ones you've made on this thread. Particularly since they are based, according to you, not on anything you have experienced personally with Phillipa, but on gossip. I try not to listen to gossip. Not even gossip about gossip.
((( Scott )))
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 10:02:47
In reply to Re: Why haven't you left this in babblemail?, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:51:08
When I say context, I would mean that I wouldn't endorse going to every thread by Phillipa and posting a comment like that. It would be disconcerting to me to have someone following me around the board making comments on my posts, even if they were not uncivil but merely repetitive or pointed. I wouldn't like to see someone else in a situation I'd find disconcerting.
But by itself I'd endorse the statement.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 10:07:51
In reply to Re: public forum, posted by ou812 on January 4, 2011, at 20:57:13
Bullying is a topic dear to my heart. It's heartening to see it get the attention it deserves, finally.
When I was young, teachers generally just told me that if I wouldn't let it upset me, the kids would stop doing it. That kids would be kids.
It's ridiculous. I'd have liked to see if "teachers will be teachers" would fly in the teachers lounge if they were met in their employment by the same abuse and harassment that kids are met with in their "employment" of school.
I hold teachers, school administration, employers, and site administration to be responsible for providing an environment that is vigilant and timely in discouraging bullying.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 10:22:28
In reply to Re: to Phillipa - personal information » violette, posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2011, at 12:54:50
Phillipa, there are some general rules of internet etiquette. Not following those rules can cause a lot of anger.
One is that you don't publicly publish emails of others. Even if it seems like spam, it may be spam that is cc'd to innocents. Please be careful not to post emails, certainly not to post headers of emails, and in general not to post any information that was sent to you in a nonpublic manner.
Another is that you not send information received by you privately to others, either publicly or privately. I think I'd go so far as to not send photos or anything that was publicly published on Babble. Even if the photos were public at one time, the photos may have subsequently been removed from links, which makes it personal to those with whom it was originally shared. I think it's ok to send links to posts that contain links to photos. You're then just sending public information, posts, which are available to anyone including the sendee.
We're an affiliative species and it's natural to wish to talk about others. I think if talking about other people was removed from conversations, a heck of a lot less conversing would go on. It's natural to want to share information out of concern for someone going through a hard time, or interest in someone who is in some way interesting, or to warn people about the behavior of others. I'm not sure where that natural inclination turns to "gossip". Perhaps it's in the eyes of the beholder.
But I'd advise you to be wise. I wouldn't tell you to trust no one. There are a handful of people I trust, and one or two I trust completely. But for the most part, remember that any information you send to others can and possibly will be sent by them to others. If they send you information, don't pass it on. If you send them information, assume it will be passed on and interpreted in whatever ways the sender wishes. It will probably not be sent on in context. It's ok to engage in the activity of talking about others. You'd be a singular person if your discussions were never about acquaintances. But try not to say anything that you wouldn't want plastered on Babble or on the front page of the NY Times. Be kind. Be discreet.
That's advice I'd give to EVERYONE.
Posted by Willful on January 5, 2011, at 10:26:57
In reply to Re: What can I do? » Solstice, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:40:50
I dont think seeing Phillipa as a poor victim, who needs defenders to champion her cause, is either true or what she needs in this situation.
I'm sorry you were bullied as an adolescent, Dinah. I can see that this was a very traumatic experienced that must have shaped some important elements in your negative self-image. I certainly regret that you had to go through that. But I don't think it's relevant here. And Phillipa is a grown women. She shows, as far as I can see, remarkably little concern or remorse for having upset people here when incidents arise. Perhaps she is privately regretful, but she is very airy in her dismissals and claims of being too busy to be concerned about what's being said. I wish she would earnestly address and consider what's being said.
If she did, I"m sure all this would have been cleared up long ago. But her seeming unconcern may be causing people to feel that she has no intention to change-- and no sense of the damage she may have done.
What exactly she has done-- I don't know-- but I do know for my own fact, that she has done things of this sort in the past. I'm not discussing anything that hasn't been mentioned here at the time-- but quite clearly the activities may be imagined not to have stopped.
Willful
Posted by SLS on January 5, 2011, at 10:46:57
In reply to Re: Phillipa - Say it ain't so. » SLS, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:58:21
Thank you Dinah.
Things with me are in flux.
I really don't feel comfortable or confident with my behavior along this thread. It just doesn't feel right to me. I won't abandon all of my concerns regarding the issues that have been uncovered here, but I am sure I could have been more moderate in my posture.
I tried to qualify my reactions in my first post along this thread as a preface to the statements I was about to make. I wrote, "Folks here demonstrate a more sober, contemplative, and compassionate deliberation of this situation than I would if I discovered that my email address and other personal information were disseminated indiscriminately"
I guess I should have waited until this preface would have been unnecessary. I don't know. I admire people here who are more tolerant and compassionate than I am. I am still working on balance.
Life is still a learning process for me. I hope it always will be.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 10:49:40
In reply to Re: What can I do?, posted by Willful on January 5, 2011, at 10:26:57
You are making the assumption that she isn't hurt.
I don't think that's a true assumption.
Some people respond to hurt with words. Some people respond with actions of self harm and suicidal actions. Some people respond by holding on to what they can of their dignity. I can't tell you the number of people who think I'm cold because I put up a shield to defend myself against hurt. Because at some level I believed what my teachers said. That if I don't show pain, they'll stop. Which isn't true either. Nothing will make them stop. Not showing pain and not withholding pain. NOTHING I CAN DO WILL MAKE THEM STOP.
Grown people aren't capable of being hurt? I hurt. I hurt when people make assumptions about my feelings. I hurt when people make accusations about me that I feel unable to counter.
Not everyone is good with words expressing their feelings. Not everyone self injures and tells everyone when they are hurt. Is the hurt of those who suffer in silence less? My experience on Babble has been that it may be thought so. I have often wondered whether this would continue so blatantly if Phillipa talked about injuring herself in response. Linehan points out that sometimes self injury works.
But I'm not just defending Phillipa. Whether or not she needs it. I'm defending myself from having to witness threads like this. Dr. Bob is sure not protecting me from it.
And in hte end I am as powerless as I ever was in middle school. Nothing I say will stop Maxime and you and others making assumptions and talking how you want about a fellow human being who deserves more. Yes DESERVES more, by virtue of being a fellow human being. NOTHING I CAN DO WILL MAKE YOU AND MAXIME AND THE OTHERS STOP DOING THIS TO PHILLIPA.
I'm not sure if you were here when a blocked poster came to babble and started talking about me and Dr. Bob eating the genitals of my recently deceased and much loved dog. When the poster I thought it likely to be was returned to babble, and seemed not to be getting any responses, do you know what I did? I posted to that poster as I would to a poster in distress. And do you know why? That poster was a human being. Human beings deserve kindness and respect for no more than being human beings.
Phillipa deserves to be treated with the same respect that other Babblers deserve. Are we going to start looking at Babbler's lives to see whether they have acted in such a way as to earn respect and kindness here?
Dr. Bob is not providing a safe place for Phillipa. I can't stand being here without doing anything. Yet I can't do anything that will in any way help. That makes me want to self injure. I am crying and shaking and can't stop. I can't be at a Babble like this.
Posted by maxime on January 5, 2011, at 11:06:13
In reply to Re: Why haven't you left this in babblemail?, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:51:08
> Incidentally, if following site guidelines and avoiding blocks is important to you, a way to warn others without violating civility guidelines might be to say.
>
> "I advise everyone to be very careful with information you don't wish to be public. Don't post it on board and don't send it to others. Emails are no more private than the board. Posters can and do pass on information in emails. If privacy is important to you, be careful what you post on board, send babblemails rather than emails, and don't send anything to another babbler that you wouldn't want known on board."
>
> That is not only unexceptional, it's also completely true. I could endorse a statement like that. Depending on context, perhaps.
>
> You say your pdoc is reading. Does he ever address your behavior? Or just the behavior of others. When I bring in posts, my therapist is always one to address my behavior before he addresses the behavior of others.
>
>Dinah, you are right. I could have worded it the way you did.
Yes, my pdoc is reading. He has commented on some of the post I have made and we talk about it.
Posted by Solstice on January 5, 2011, at 11:08:15
In reply to Re: What can I do? » Solstice, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2011, at 9:40:50
> > I don't know that there's any way to actually prevent someone from doing that, other than to simply not participate in anything. I suppose that it doesn't matter whether it's online or IRL, if someone wants to invest the energy into collecting information about others, they can do it within the limits of the law.
> What are you saying Phillipa did? I thought the topic of conversation was items sent to Phillipa by email or posted publicly on the board. Are you accusing Phillipa of searching the internet for information on others?
Dinah.. I am not aware of my saying anything about Phillipa doing anything. It might be helpful for you to point out specifically what I said that led you to interpret what I said as an accusation against Phillipa. I was responding in a very general way to Maxime's concerns by pointing out that it's not that hard to collect information about people because of the www, if that's what they want to do. And unless they do something illegal with it, there's nothing one can do to stop someone from collecting information. I'm a little hurt that you would interpret me in such a negative way.
As for my experience with Phillipa - I personally have received only a single babblemail from her. It was a supportive and caring expression that appeared to be prompted by a thread where someone was giving me some grief. Phillipa did not solicit anything from me (real name, photos, private email addy, etc.) She also did not pass any information about anyone else on to me. She didn't ask for a response, and I didn't respond as there was no need.
> I don't see anyplace on board where that is being said. Is someone spreading gossip off board about Phillipa?I wouldn't know. I have not had any off-board communication with anyone about Phillipa, and it is not in my nature to engage in communications of that type.
> > That said, it would feel very creepy to me to find out someone is keeping a file and collecting information about me.
> I keep photos sent to me by email, and emails sent to me. I also might bookmark items on occasion, if Babblers have posted links to them. I may even arrange those photos, emails, and links into folders. I like a tidy computer. I routinely keep things friends send me because I care about them. I'm sorry you find my behavior creepy.Dinah, it really hurts to read this. I do exactly the same thing you're describing above - and I think most people who have even the slightest computer savvy do the same. And my statement about collection of information and keeping a file on me being creepy was interpreted out-of-context.
I'll elaborate. About eight years ago I was stalked for at least a year by someone who I'd met and was initially interesting to me. After a few months, this woman's interest in me was feeling weird to me, so I backed away. Before it was over, this person had a diary of her observations of my comings and goings (she was watching my house!), phone records she'd taken from my mailbox, and had managed to get into my email account (by spending a LOT of time guessing possible passwords), and forwarded my email exchanges with other people to herself. She knew where my daughter took dance, and showed up at an advertised studio dance recital. I was in the audience and didn't see her. She sat in the back and at some point caught my young daughter and told her "I will never be out of your life." I was petrified! I got the local police (small town) involved and was fortunate enough to have an acquaintance who was the lead detective for, among other things, 'internet crimes.' Before it was over with, this woman provided him with two three inch binders of information she'd collected on me! This was stuff I had NOT given her, but because she was extremely internet/computer savvy and had lots of time, and had stolen things from my mailbox and broke into my email account, she had quite a lot. She had pages and pages of documents tracking my internet movements.Now THAT is creepy - and I challenge anyone to argue with it. When I said collecting information and keeping a file was creepy - I was NOT talking about someone having a file on their computer with my name on it and pictures and emails, etc. that I'd sent them. I was talking about situations where someone (and yes, even someone we know) is, without our knowledge, obsessively collecting information about people, making files, tracking them, and doing all of this without a socially acceptable reason. I was NOT speaking to Maxime's concerns about Phillipa specifically, because I don't have any experience with Phillipa. I was addressing the issue of it being creepy to find out that you're being tracked, that information is being collected about you without your awareness, that someone you either don't know, or don't have a continuing relationship with, has a file with your name on it and they spend time searching for things to put in that file.
I really feel misunderstood, Dinah.. and I think it especially hurts because I've felt so (one-sidedly) connected to you for such a long time. It wouldn't bother me one bit if Bob misunderstood me and jumped to negative conclusions about me, but it really does hurt that somehow I didn't merit being given the benefit of the doubt when you read my response to Maxime.
:-( sol.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.