![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 81 to 105 of 112. Go back in thread:
Posted by BabyToes on April 25, 2010, at 21:16:08
In reply to Re: So are you refusing to answer my questions DR BOB? » obsidian, posted by BabyToes on April 25, 2010, at 21:04:29
Anyone have ideas that maybe could help Dr. BOb not feel put down when someone jokes with him, that would lead him not to block people? I feel he could have a chance to grow and learn. This site is about education, and everyone has the ability to learn and grow.
Posted by BabyToes on April 25, 2010, at 21:26:47
In reply to Re: double double quotes » BabyToes, posted by Dr. Bob on April 25, 2010, at 9:49:09
Dr. Bob you said this:
> Posters don't get blocked for questioning my decisions. Posters get blocked for being uncivil. Do you think you may have felt traumatized by decisions made by those in authority in the past?
>
> BobHmm since you asked this of me, I am wondering the same thing about you.
Do you think you may have felt traumatized by someone thinking you may have a personality disorder in the past?
> I think Bob has a personality disorder
Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused or put down.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on April 26, 2010, at 6:33:42
In reply to How can we make Dr. Bob not feel put down?, posted by BabyToes on April 25, 2010, at 21:16:08
> Anyone have ideas that maybe could help Dr. BOb not feel put down when someone jokes with him, that would lead him not to block people? I feel he could have a chance to grow and learn. This site is about education, and everyone has the ability to learn and grow.
Maybe this is an issue that Dr. Bob has, and not one that the poster has. That is, it's not about us (or one of us) posters, but about HIS perceptions. XXX is being uncivil - is that true? Is that REALLY true? (that's a page out of the book of Byron Katie, "Loving What Is".
Which reminds me that, yes, BT, Dr. Bob DOES get a cut from the double quote links to Amazon if they lead to a sale. It's a way of funding the cost of running these boards.
The difference between a joke, a comment, something being taken out of context... all of this is a huge challenge in online communication. I think that no emoticon in the world can substitute for face to face discussion.
Or, as Dr. Bob has said, "it's an issue."
pc
Posted by PartlyCloudy on April 26, 2010, at 7:56:51
In reply to Lou's response-yezbudt, posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2010, at 20:08:24
> > ...and I might be extrapolating here, but I think that the poster who was blocked was really looking for an explanation for what had happened (with the Facebook message in her long inactive account) in the midst of her upset which offended you - and the block effectively stopped any possibility of that discussion taking place.
> >
> > Just as YOU had been offended by the poster's way of communicating her upset at what had happened (and I wonder whether that upset was actually directed at you, or at the event? Is that a possibility, Dr. Bob?), might I propose that you were triggered by the post? This does not suggest that you suffer from a mental health issue - people can be triggered by many innocuous events that can build up over time, or they may have less tolerance for them; or it may be that the civility guidelines towards the administrator has actually evolved over time, which seems to have happened here. I seem to recall many vitriolic words directed towards you in the past that never resulted in blocks - or am I misremembering?
> >
> > Let's try to continue this discussion.
> >
> > So, to clarify (for me): the rules of civility towards the administration are more strict now than they were previously - is this correct?
> >
> > If this is the case, then it would be problematic for a poster who frequents the boards only now and then and is unaware of these changes in policy.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > PartlyCloudy, treading lightly and with caution
>
> PC,
> You wrote,[...in the past...the rules are more strict..problematic for a poster...unaware...].
> You have posted a good point in relation to if or if not the poster knew of the change, if there was one.
> Well, me and Mr. Hsiung have been in dialog concerning what is known as the aspect of {two standards} in relation to administrative actions. And in those discusssions, I remember what you said here concerning that comments directed to Mr. Hsiung were not acted on in the same way as if those same comments were directed to a poster.
> But then I remmeber that there was a change and Mr. Hsiung cited the concept of {two standards} and comments directed toward him then were acted on as the same if they were directed to a member.
> Your point, and it is a very valid point IMHO, is how could a member have known of the change?
> You see, there is another aspect of administration that me and Mr. Hsiung have also been in discussion about here. This is the aspect of what is known as {due-process}. The question I have here is did the member in question, as you have brought up, have due-process? And if not, is the adminstrative action valid or not, and if not, could the action be dismissed and the member be reinstated? In my opinion, a denial of due-process could be an unsound mental-health practice.
> Lou
>Lou,
That is a valid question.
Let's see if Dr. Bob is willing to address it.
Anything that we discuss without his participation is conjecture, IMO.best regards
PartlyCloudy
Posted by BabyToes on April 26, 2010, at 8:51:19
In reply to Re: How can we make Dr. Bob not feel put down?, posted by PartlyCloudy on April 26, 2010, at 6:33:42
> > Anyone have ideas that maybe could help Dr. BOb not feel put down when someone jokes with him, that would lead him not to block people? I feel he could have a chance to grow and learn. This site is about education, and everyone has the ability to learn and grow.
>
> Maybe this is an issue that Dr. Bob has, and not one that the poster has. That is, it's not about us (or one of us) posters, but about HIS perceptions. XXX is being uncivil - is that true? Is that REALLY true? (that's a page out of the book of Byron Katie, "Loving What Is".
I agree it may not be the posters, but his perceptions.It is his site, but does that give him the authority to do decide what is considered civil and what isn't? I feel that civility doesn't seem to be working from BOTH direction, which leads to incivility itself. Just what qualifications does he have to decide what is civil and what is not? Just owning this site isn't a qualification. So pushing ones own views onto everyone else may not be considered to be civil to begin with.
> Which reminds me that, yes, BT, Dr. Bob DOES get a cut from the double quote links to Amazon if they lead to a sale. It's a way of funding the cost of running these boards.
I can see why that would be beneficial. But coming from someone who claims to be SO BUSY. It would seem it would be more beneficial to use the time actually answering posters questions about rules, etc. than plugging Amazon. How many plugs have we seen over the weekend. How many poster's questions got answered? How many posters got blocked? It all goes hand in hand.
>
> The difference between a joke, a comment, something being taken out of context... all of this is a huge challenge in online communication. I think that no emoticon in the world can substitute for face to face discussion.
> Or, as Dr. Bob has said, "it's an issue."
I agree, so I feel there should be some leeway without the harsh rules when a post could be in doubt. Especially when a poster is joking.I wonder if Dr. BOb does have an issue from the past that makes him feel triggered when he is joked with, especially about mental health. Is giving out blocks according to HIS standards on HIS site a way to get some "payback" from his past? It does feel very personal.
I mean recently he said something to the effect that learning to be civil is a life skill. But so is learning to take a joke. So is learning that one's own perceptions of what constitutes incivility is not always agreed with by society. Is it right to force one's views about should be THE LAW? It is his site, but that doesn't mean that he can do whatever he wants. That is evident because hundreds have left because they don't agree with his perceptions. It is a valuable life skill to know that one's way is not the "only way." When this skill is not learned and is in the hands of those who use power above other people we can see what has happened in history. But in this case, Dr. Bob's only power is to block as he sees fit. Our power would be to stay or go. But just because someone stays doesn't mean they agree with the way things are run either.
So Twitter, Facebook, and now NY Times articles will not be the goldmine of repairing this site. Changes have to happen from "top to bottom" at this point. Eventually I hope he will be able to see that maybe he had a role in the disappearance of many people. Only he can change that for himself. Many people have tried to reason with him that his rules are too harsh, among other things. This site was NOT his site, but ours together as posters, as you can't have one without the other. So it is up to him whether or not he decided to bend his own perceptions of incivility or at least give others some leeway, instead of everything being so black and white. As in, Dr. BOB's perceptions are always right, and posters are wrong when it comes to discrepancies of what is considered "incivility".
Posted by BabyToes on April 26, 2010, at 9:03:05
In reply to Re: How can we make Dr. Bob not feel put down? » PartlyCloudy, posted by BabyToes on April 26, 2010, at 8:51:19
Our questions will probably not get answered, only blocks. He does have that power to silence people. But he doesn't have the power over me. Just showing his lack of wanting to answer things, especially when he could have been mistaken, shows just how not committed he is to this site and just how much he cares about any poster.
I challenge him to answer my questions, but he won't because he will have to admit that he messed up. So my questions will be ignored. Ignorance is bliss... I guess.
I am done here, I tried , there comes a time when the fight isn't worth it when it is something you no longer care about. I have wasted too much of my time to trying to reason with complete resistance.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 12:33:24
In reply to Lou's response-14th » obsidian, posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2010, at 21:11:22
Friends,
If you are considering responding to aspects of this thread or parallel threads, I ask you to consider what could be seen in ther following thread where myswelf and Mr.Hsiung were in dialog concerning my concerns as to wanting there to be due-process here concerning Mr. Hsiung's criteria that he uses to determine if or if not a statement here could lead a person to feel put down or not.
Here is the link to the first post of the thread, but I ask if you could read all the posts in the thraed. If you could , then I think that one could have a better undderstanding of what due-process entails and what is meant by {equal protection } of the rules here. This could involve my requests to Mr. Hsiung that were or were not answerd there.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs821127.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 12:41:54
In reply to Lou's request--ehqwalprowtk, posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 12:33:24
> Friends,
> If you are considering responding to aspects of this thread or parallel threads, I ask you to consider what could be seen in ther following thread where myswelf and Mr.Hsiung were in dialog concerning my concerns as to wanting there to be due-process here concerning Mr. Hsiung's criteria that he uses to determine if or if not a statement here could lead a person to feel put down or not.
> Here is the link to the first post of the thread, but I ask if you could read all the posts in the thraed. If you could , then I think that one could have a better undderstanding of what due-process entails and what is meant by {equal protection } of the rules here. This could involve my requests to Mr. Hsiung that were or were not answerd there.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs821127.htmlcorrected:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/821127.html
Posted by Toph on April 27, 2010, at 15:45:11
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » fayeroe, posted by Dr. Bob on April 22, 2010, at 14:37:47
> > Obviously neither of us know enough about FB
>
> > My very first response was fear.
>
> > Tsk, tsk, you're projecting again.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused. Even if you feel afraid. Especially if you don't know what happened.---
I remember a few years back when my psychiatrist kept hounding me to see him more frequently in therapy in an attempt to work on my persistent disthymia. I told him at the time that I could not afford it, that I could only see him every 6 weeks so I could get my lithium. After about the fourth or fifth time he mentioned intensive psychotherapy I angrily accused him of being cruel and insensitive by badgering me about a treatment he knew I couldn't afford. He raised his voice offended that I had accused him of being unprofessional, and he strongly stated that I was welcome to see another doctor. I left the room upset, mostly afraid of what would happen if I could no longer obtain my needed medication. We barely processed this episode later, he never apologized, but he has never suggested psychotherapy to me again. I had not had a therapist yell or threaten me before despite several manic episodes under treatment.
I am triggered by professionals who threaten or punish their patients. I realize that this is not a treatment setting. Just the same, as I read this thread I was triggered and felt that sickening feeling I feel when someone I entrust to be caring professional misses the mark or harms someone in an insensitive manner.
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 17:22:55
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on April 27, 2010, at 15:45:11
Hi Toph,
It bothers me too because it happened to me with a professional. It isn't a trigger though for me but my T did email me today (who looked over this entire thread and others) and said that I may be frustrated by Dr. Bob actions because they echo those of my mom A LOT. There was more she said and some of it was... (paraphrased since even her words would be considered "uncivil" according to Dr. Bob.
He goes by Dr. Bob and not just Bob. Most professionals in the mental health field don't use their title unless it is for their work. One has to ask why someone feels the NEED to use their title in non work related activities. One has to ask why someone has a site controlled all by himself, enforcing HIS rules and ideas of how people should communicate and having ALL the power to punish people if they cross HIS ideas of what constitutes incivility. That sure is a lot of control especially over people with mental health issues and can cause significant harm when the control is used unprofessionally. Whether or not he is an acting psychiatrist on this site, he does have responsibility to use ethical sense when owning this site. The "blocks" that are seen on this thread given out by him, are unusually cruel punitive punishments that are quite disturbing of a mental health professional. She is passing on this site for other professionals to review the policies.
She told me to fight for what is right, but don't use this site for mental health reasons, as it is not a positive place that would be beneficial for me. In fact it could cause more harm than it already has.
> I am triggered by professionals who threaten or punish their patients. I realize that this is not a treatment setting. Just the same, as I read this thread I was triggered and felt that sickening feeling I feel when someone I entrust to be caring professional misses the mark or harms someone in an insensitive manner.
Posted by muffled on April 27, 2010, at 17:46:37
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 17:22:55
Toph, sorry you got hurt :(
BT, I used to fight here alot, cuz I wanted to make this a place I could be cuz I made many friends here.
But its like beating my head against a wall.
I really really tried.
Now I just mostly stay away. I read to see if old friends have posted, but don't post back cuz I don't want to get sucked back into this place.
Another reason I fought, and why I come back is worry.
I agree this place is run in a frighteningly unpredictable manner.
Bob dissapears for months at a time. Then he returns, blocking all over.
I have tried to reason with Bob and it doesn't work.
I tried explaining by giving examples of parallel ideas etc etc.
I tried so much.
Mostly why I am posting here now, is to say thank you for persuing this problem. But at the same time not to make yourself nuts.
Cuz its Bobs site and he can and does do whatever he wants.
"Psycho-babble" BY Dr. Bob....just kinda says it all.....
He comes and goes w/o warning. He changes major things w/o warning, he blocks whenever he feels it should be so....
He used to have deputies to help 4-5 of them. They all quit. They were very devoted and tried very hard but they all quit.Bob...maybe you could just have a meds board and nothing else????
Sigh....
TC
M
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:15:51
In reply to and so it goes, same old same old :( » BabyToes, posted by muffled on April 27, 2010, at 17:46:37
> BT, I used to fight here alot, cuz I wanted to make this a place I could be cuz I made many friends here.Me too. Plus I wanted a place that was safe and ethical.
> I agree this place is run in a frighteningly unpredictable manner.My T could see that too.
>
> Mostly why I am posting here now, is to say thank you for persuing this problem. But at the same time not to make yourself nuts.Good advice Muffy. I am okay though, in fact having my T read this stuff and hear what she says makes me know I am not the one who is crazy.
LOL> Cuz its Bobs site and he can and does do whatever he wants.
Unfortunately some mental health professionals believe they can do whatever they want. Reminds me so much of Hitler and what he did to those who didn't agree with his views of what was an acceptable human being. I am sure he controlled how civil and obedient they were to him too. "just get them to shut up one way or another"
But I showed my T and she is going to be sharing this site with other mental heath professionals. She has heard me talk about this site, but this was the first time she actually saw what happens here. She is very proactive in ethical treatments of mental heath professionals.> "Psycho-babble" BY Dr. Bob....just kinda says it all.....
LOL
> He comes and goes w/o warning. He changes major things w/o warning, he blocks whenever he feels it should be so....
> He used to have deputies to help 4-5 of them. They all quit. They were very devoted and tried very hard but they all quit.
>
> Bob...maybe you could just have a meds board and nothing else????Or maybe seek a professional. I think Ducke was right on track with his DX. My T says narcissistic.
LOLI am sure I will be banished to kingdom come and I don't really care because Bob is the most f*ck*d up of us posters all put together. And another note, that isn't being uncivil , that is being TRUTHFUL. Dr. BOb seriously needs some professional health for his obvious problems that only he can't see.
It is funny because at least 2 other people I have met on a babble get together posted on this thread and we all feel Bob is unjust in his actions here. I met him in person and it only confirmed my beliefs about him. He just just doesn't know how to be with people either online or offline. It is so obvious.
LOL
Cia!
Looking forward to seeing my year long block! Ohhh, so scary....the big man is going to swash me. oh, the fear...
I bet you call can hear me laughing out loud if you go outside! :-)
Posted by muffled on April 27, 2010, at 18:40:03
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » muffled, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:15:51
Yup heard ya :)
Anyhow, your better off away from here.
As for Bob, whatever his issues are i don't know.
He is a human being like anyone.
I don't think he tries to be mean. I hope not.
He just doesn't get it. I don't think he ever will.
Which is why I no longer am an active poster here.
I kinda wish he would close this site or have someone else manage it.
Too bad really.
BT, I wish you well.
I wish all babblers well.
I wish Bob well too.
TC all.
M
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:44:21
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :(, posted by muffled on April 27, 2010, at 18:40:03
Posted by SLS on April 27, 2010, at 18:54:05
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » muffled, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:15:51
> Or maybe seek a professional. I think Ducke was right on track with his DX. My T says narcissistic.
> LOL
Why would that be funny?
- Scott
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 20:07:51
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :(, posted by SLS on April 27, 2010, at 18:54:05
To me it is funny because Ducke was right on but yet he got blocked.
> > Or maybe seek a professional. I think Ducke was right on track with his DX. My T says narcissistic.
> > LOL
>
>
> Why would that be funny?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 20:10:01
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » SLS, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 20:07:51
Those who have voiced the truth often are the ones who get blocked...
Rather ironic, it was more of a sarcastic laugh than a funny laugh
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2010, at 21:12:09
In reply to and so it goes, same old same old :( » BabyToes, posted by muffled on April 27, 2010, at 17:46:37
For the record, Muffled.
It really wasn't like that. I can't act as deputy right now, but I have hoped that isn't a permanent state of affairs. I didn't quit because I was upset with Dr. Bob or his policies. I hope my caring for Babble and Babblers is stronger than that.
Although certainly I am on occasion upset with Dr. Bob and his policies. When I am, I say so. I daresay Dr. Bob has his moments of being upset with me and my choices as well.
Posted by obsidian on April 27, 2010, at 21:43:33
In reply to In other words..., posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 20:10:01
the truth is often subjective. I haven't ever felt mistreated by Dr. Bob. I really just see him as someone who for some unknown reason decides to maintain this site. I believe he has good intentions.
Posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 21:57:37
In reply to Re: In other words... » BabyToes, posted by obsidian on April 27, 2010, at 21:43:33
> the truth is often subjective. I haven't ever felt mistreated by Dr. Bob. I really just see him as someone who for some unknown reason decides to maintain this site. I believe he has good intentions.
That is true and so is "maintain" and "good" intentions are also subjective.
For me I am going to follow the advice of my T who had a chance to look at this site and many other T's who other posters have in the past been told to stay away. They must know something. I am removing this site from my saved sites and won't be back.
I still hope Bob gets help.
Posted by muffled on April 28, 2010, at 1:18:54
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » muffled, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2010, at 21:12:09
Sorry Dinah.
TGC all.
M
Posted by jane d on April 28, 2010, at 18:56:50
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » muffled, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:15:51
> Reminds me so much of Hitler and what he did to those who didn't agree with his views of what was an acceptable human being. I am sure he controlled how civil and obedient they were to him too. "just get them to shut up one way or another"
I can't believe I have gotten so jaded that I almost let this pass. Almost. To read a post that compares being sent to death camps to being asked to censor HOW you express your ideas on a website or else face a TEMPORARY suspension during which you are free to say whatever you like on thousands of other sites leaves me stunned. I literally cannot comprehend a mind that could make that comparison even in mid rage.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2010, at 19:37:26
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :(, posted by muffled on April 28, 2010, at 1:18:54
No need to be sorry. I explained when it first came up, but I don't routinely mention it, so no one really has any way to know where it stands. It was so long ago, I'm sure no one but me remembers anyway. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 28, 2010, at 21:39:19
In reply to Re: and so it goes, same old same old :( » muffled, posted by BabyToes on April 27, 2010, at 18:15:51
> Unfortunately some mental health professionals believe they can do whatever they want. Reminds me so much of Hitler and what he did to those who didn't agree with his views of what was an acceptable human being. I am sure he controlled how civil and obedient they were to him too.
>
> I am sure I will be banished to kingdom come and I don't really care because Bob is the most f*ck*d up of us posters all put together.Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you. I don't want anything bad to happen to you. In a crisis, please also get help in person. You may also wish to check out a listing compiled by a poster of helpful web pages on coping with crisis at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links/Coping_with_crisis_001012507973
I do hope that you choose to remain a member of this community and that this community helps you, if needed, to avoid future blocks.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 41 weeks
period of time since previous block: 5 weeks
severity: 2 (default)
block length = 71.14 capped = 52 weeks
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 28, 2010, at 23:39:21
In reply to why?, posted by obsidian on April 25, 2010, at 21:06:31
> What I am wondering is if you block someone for saying that they think you have a personality disorder (which according to you) is considered to be a put down, than isn't it also saying something about how YOU perceive people who do have personality disorders- as being a negative thing to have?
No, it's just saying that I think a lot of people would be likely to feel accused or put down if someone told them, without being asked, that they thought they had a personality disorder.
> Anyone have ideas that maybe could help Dr. BOb not feel put down when someone jokes with him, that would lead him not to block people? I feel he could have a chance to grow and learn. This site is about education, and everyone has the ability to learn and grow.
The idea here isn't for readers to learn not to feel hurt by incivility. The idea here is for posters to learn to be civil.
> my T did email me today (who looked over this entire thread and others) and said that I may be frustrated by Dr. Bob actions because they echo those of my mom A LOT.
Looking back at your last block, I noticed:
> > I remember that as an abused child, I wanted my mom to change, and I kept thinking she would see the light and do that. But I left home and will never come back because I have my own home now ... you can't change [Dr. Bob]. I couldn't change my mom.
> Dr. BOB's perceptions are always right, and posters are wrong when it comes to discrepancies of what is considered "incivility".
> That sure is a lot of control especially over people
>
> BabyToesI don't mean to imply that I have any special gift for discerning the "true" degree of civility of anyone's posts. But I'm the umpire here.
Still, I only control whether you're able to post, you control what you post.
--
> it may be that the civility guidelines towards the administrator has actually evolved over time, which seems to have happened here. I seem to recall many vitriolic words directed towards you in the past that never resulted in blocks
>
> If this is the case, then it would be problematic for a poster who frequents the boards only now and then and is unaware of these changes in policy.
>
> PartlyCloudyThe guideline has always been to be civil, but I did give posters more leeway when it came to me before. I decided vitriolic words could make it feel less safe here.
One way a poster can help other posters avoid blocks is by letting them know when there's less leeway.
--
> I do wonder if other people are more upset about zazenducke being blocked than he/she is
>
> why?
>
> obsidianI can suggest two hypotheses:
1. Maybe it's more important to other posters than the blocked poster.
2. Maybe the blocked poster accepts being blocked, but other posters worry that they'll be blocked next, and no one will help them avoid it.
Anybody else?
Bob
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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