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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 59. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tabitha on July 28, 2009, at 11:33:31
In reply to Dr. Bob, posted by Glydin 00 on July 28, 2009, at 3:44:41
He used to put "let's keep it adminstrative here" in all the off-topic threads. We don't see that anymore.
Posted by Glydin 00 on July 28, 2009, at 14:50:32
In reply to Re: does seem like there's been a change, posted by Tabitha on July 28, 2009, at 11:33:31
> He used to put "let's keep it adminstrative here" in all the off-topic threads. We don't see that anymore.
~~~ I know there were grumbles about redirects and the sectioning off of topics. There were also grumbles about too much oversight but I would like to see at least a bit more adm. attention.
I come to these boards and find myself confused more often than not. (Smile)
Posted by Glydin 00 on July 30, 2009, at 6:50:01
In reply to Dr. Bob, posted by Glydin 00 on July 28, 2009, at 3:44:41
It is difficult to discuss a behavior that may only apply to a few posters. I hope this falls under the handling of posts criteria noted in the boards purpose statement. I believe we are all entitled to our feelings. This is not about a critique or judgment about feelings but about a type of posting and how their are handled.
My initial concern involves the use of the Adm. Board for purposes other than what is currently stated as the boards purpose.
My secondary concern involves not understanding how the I love Dr. Bob type postings including personal commentaries, inquiries, character descriptions, etc. fit the guidelines.
I do not believe civility rules are the only guidelines expected to be followed on the boards. I see the true guidelines, boiled to simplicity, being in this forum description found when one initial registers:
Psycho-Babble is an online peer support group. It is for people dealing with mental health problems. Group members support and educate each other by submitting -- or "posting" -- messages to a web site. Robert Hsiung, MD, aka Dr. Bob, manages the group. Other group members, however, are the primary source of support and education.
My interpretation of the above yields you do not considering yourself a peer or primary source of support and education. Please correct me if Im in error. I believe you consider yourself a manager of boards you own. How does the I love Dr. Bob type posts meet the descriptions of online peer support group? If they dont meet the guidelines, why are they allowed ? Given the dynamic of manager and poster roles on a mental health site, these type of posts make me very uncomfortable and a bit confused as to whats going on
As a participant at this site, I seek to understand.
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2009, at 12:12:00
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by Glydin 00 on July 30, 2009, at 6:50:01
Excellent question. I'd also like to know. Thanks Glyndin00 for asking that question. Phillipa
Posted by Glydin 00 on July 30, 2009, at 12:28:06
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob » Glydin 00, posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2009, at 12:12:00
Thanks for the thanks....
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2009, at 20:06:41
In reply to Re: » Phillipa, posted by Glydin 00 on July 30, 2009, at 12:28:06
Your're welcome. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 4:27:03
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, posted by Glydin 00 on July 30, 2009, at 6:50:01
> My initial concern involves the use of the Adm. Board for purposes other than what is currently stated as the boards purpose.
>
> My secondary concern involves not understanding how the I love Dr. Bob type postings including personal commentaries, inquiries, character descriptions, etc. fit the guidelines.This board is for discussion of the administration of these boards, and I think that could include feelings about the administration (and the administrators).
> "I love Dr. Bob...." posts have made me feel uncomfortable for years.
Uncomfortable in what way, may I ask? And would "I hate Dr. Bob" posts make you feel uncomfortable, too?
Bob
Posted by Glydin 00 on August 5, 2009, at 6:30:42
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 4:27:03
> This board is for discussion of the administration of these boards, and I think that could include feelings about the administration (and the administrators).
>~~~ Discussions limited to the Adminstrator's role in the oversite of these boards which is the role you serve, IMO..... not the utilization of the boards for personal posts to and about you. IMO, the practice of allowing these boards to be personal message boards to you is potentially filled with pitfalls for the community as a whole and for you. I think there is currently evidence of that to be found.
> Uncomfortable in what way, may I ask? And would "I hate Dr. Bob" posts make you feel uncomfortable, too?
>
> Bob~~~ Uncomfortable - not limited to, but the biggie - in that you are the manager of these boards allowing for personal messages not related to your adm. role. I do not see you as a primary source of support or education. If someone desires different interactions with you - other than in your role here, alternatives have been offered. I preceive the needs of one overiding those of others. I preceive a potential for all posters not being seen with objectivity. Those preceptions are part of my feeling uncomfortable.
This is a VERY unique situation and I hope (and am pretty sure) you are well aware of that. Other posters have been have been discouraged from giving an alternative idea for fear of over stepping the board guidelines.
A post stating someone hated you would probably be addressed as uncivil, IMO and yes, hate posts would and have made me feel uncomfortable as well.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 8:51:34
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 4:27:03
For my part, I think you're the only one who is really affected by those posts. If other people want to refrain from reading them, they can refrain from reading them.
I'm certain there are posting behaviors that make me uncomfortable. As long as they aren't hurting anyone, and as long as they aren't against the rules, I own those feelings as mine and take the responsibility of doing what I need to do to help myself feel comfortable with something others have a perfect right to do.
I find that learning to deal with things that make me feel uncomfortable is a good skill for life outside Babble as well. Things that make me feel uncomfortable, or things that annoy me, or things that I wish people wouldn't do, those things happen all the time whether or not I would wish it differently. Sometimes I bring those things to therapy and try to figure out why I find them so upsetting.
I don't see how posts about positive feelings for you are unkind to anyone. I don't see how they could hurt anyone's feelings. I could see if they were upsetting to you, but you say they aren't. They aren't vulgar in any obscene sense of the word. They aren't anything I'd rather my child not see.
They might possibly qualify as public displays of affection which make some people feel uncomfortable. That doesn't seem to stop them from being allowable in most public places. To me they seem more like my father telling Bob Crane to please kiss my daughter; she's in love with you. Bob Crane was very gracious. As are you.
I don't understand how it could be a harmful coping mechanism. You aren't going to take advantage of Deneb. You are a relatively safe container of feelings, positive and negative. She's not even expecting anything of you. If she was expecting anything, I could see where it would be harmful. My adoration of Bob Crane helped shed a ray of sunshine into a very dark time in my life. My diary is full of his wonderfulness. I spoke about it to others as well, and if there had been an internet, I would have probably written odes to his smiling eyes. I'm an adult now, but I've seen a good many adults who find the same solace in loving someone safe. Moreover she brings them to therapy and discusses the reasons why she might feel the way she does. She seems to have a very clear understanding of what her feelings are and aren't.
At least one poster, and probably more, has posted that they enjoy Deneb's posts. And for me, as long as you're ok with them, I see them as not very different than my posting my feelings about my dogs or my therapist or Bob Crane. How I feel about them likely depends on how I'm feeling in general.
I suppose there is a possibility that others have felt hurt by you because of their positive feelings for you. I'd put myself in that category even. Perhaps they worry that Deneb's positive feelings will one day lead to her feeling hurt by you when you do something like give her a PBC or block her. And certainly I would not discount that possibility. It's a very real one. Like my therapist with me, your relationship with Babblers is very different than our relationship with you. You may intend no harm and still hurt people because of how they feel about you.
That's the chance we take when we care about someone in even the most equal of relationships. Loving someone in an unequal relationship like this is both safer in some ways, and more likely to lead to hurt feelings in others. I do hope anyone who loves you is ready for that possibility.
I suppose it's also possible that people are reminded of times in their lives when they were the object of unwelcome attentions. Maybe they even felt unsafe because someone was intruding on their boundaries to express their "love" when such expressions were not welcome. But it's clear that to you this is not unwelcome attention, and that you do not feel that positive expressions of feelings intrude upon your boundaries. You do not appear to feel harassed or pressured.
Deneb, I'm sorry to be talking about you in third person. And I'm sorry if my post contributes to any further discussion that might cause you discomfort. I remember once storming off babble and having people talking about me in third person and feeling utterly mortified. I hope that nothing I posted would make you feel that way.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 10:08:00
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » Dr. Bob, posted by Glydin 00 on August 5, 2009, at 6:30:42
> IMO, the practice of allowing these boards to be personal message boards to you is potentially filled with pitfalls for the community as a whole and for you.
>
> Uncomfortable - not limited to, but the biggie - in that you are the manager of these boards allowing for personal messages not related to your adm. role. I do not see you as a primary source of support or education. If someone desires different interactions with you - other than in your role here, alternatives have been offered. ... I preceive a potential for all posters not being seen with objectivity.Thanks for explaining. Feelings about me, both positive and negative, could be related to my administrative role. People might feel differently about me if I were another poster instead of the manager.
One pitfall is that I might show favoritism?
Bob
Posted by Glydin 00 on August 5, 2009, at 12:59:09
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 10:08:00
> People might feel differently about me if I were another poster instead of the manager.
>~~~ If you were another poster and not manager, this particular concern would never have been an issue for me.
> One pitfall is that I might show favoritism?
>~~~ Yes, that's one. I also think of more.
Posted by BayLeaf on August 5, 2009, at 17:58:32
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable, posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 4:27:03
What I see is erotic tranference which is completely stuck. It cannot be processed by you in this context. You are not her therapist nor her pdoc. You have not made efforts, which I have seen to assist her to process, understand, and abate this highly charged emotion.
There are many people here who have experienced erotic love for their T, or pdoc, whoever. It take a LOT of work for both parties to resolve. Poor Deneb is simply stuck in it. You are not (from what I can see in public posts) trying to assist her.
That is what is painful for me. I know this will end in pain. It's unrequited "love". You are a professional looking at her as a nice poster. The longer it goes on, the more painful it will be. She needs to be treated for this. It's obsessive, erotic transference for which she is not getting help.
You seeing her at Babble gatherings is just the *opposite* of helpful. You are leading her into thinking you 2 can have a relationship of any sort. Clearly that is not possible, and imo its downright emotionally dangerous for her.
I am not saying that YOU are the one to treat her. But, you ought to privately be explaining this to her, and encouraging her to work hard on getting past this so she can work on the real issues.
Bay
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 18:18:10
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on August 5, 2009, at 17:58:32
I don't see this as any way erotic.
Also, since Deneb has spoken about her therapist's thoughts on the matter, I'm thinking that not only is it not untreated, but that it is being used in treatment to explore larger issues.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 18:20:32
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » BayLeaf, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 18:18:10
It is enormously rude of me to attempt to speak for you when you are speaking very well for yourself.
Posted by Deneb on August 5, 2009, at 18:51:02
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on August 5, 2009, at 17:58:32
Some of this love may be transference, but it is not erotic. It is not a sexual love.
My pdoc knows all about my love. She doesn't seem concerned. I talk about Dr. Bob a lot with her.
I know Dr. Bob doesn't love me, it's definitely not erotomania. I think it is just a strange coping mechanism combined with some obsessive thoughts. It is a little bit obsessive in that I need to think of Dr. Bob daily and I often say his name over and over again. These thoughts don't bother me though and I think something is only a problem if it interferes with my life, which it doesn't.
Thanks for the concern though. I didn't know some people objected to my posts because of that.
Posted by Deneb on August 5, 2009, at 19:17:40
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on August 5, 2009, at 17:58:32
I know I will never have any type of relationship with Dr. Bob. Sometimes I long for him to be my friend, but I get over it. The real object of my affection isn't entirely Dr. Bob, it is like a hybrid of Dr. Bob and some imaginary Dr. Bob in my mind. I know Dr. Bob isn't that person. It is a person mostly in my mind.
I think there is a possibility of getting hurt here, but I think I am thinking things through and working on it so it won't be as painful when Dr. Bob lets me down or blocks me or something. I remember during the Toronto trip I was very jealous of Dr. Bob giving other Babblers attention, but I don't get jealous anymore. I worked though that.
There is still the problem of my fantasy of Dr. Bob saving me, but I am working on that too. I thought that might give me problems, but my trip to SF was not affected. I had a great time, for the most part it is just some fantasy in my mind and I haven't acted on the thoughts.
Thanks for your concern Bayleaf.
Posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:10:18
In reply to I am dreadfully sorry Deneb, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 18:20:32
I can't remember what the deal was. Was Bob Crane killed by a child molester or was Bob Crane a child molester? Maybe neither is true. Quite possibly neither is true.
"Lolita", Vladimer Nabokov, , tremendously interesting book. Lolita didn't really recognize her burgeoning, healthy, juvenile erotic drives, and was in no way responsible for the irresponsible and damaging behavior of Humbert Humbert (? Is that his name? Been a while since I read it.) Yet she was badly abused. Just a thought that has come up for me during this discussion.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:26:03
In reply to bob crane, posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:10:18
Bob Crane was not a pedophile.
He liked women. Very mature women from what I understand. He liked porn. He liked to film himself with women, and he liked to watch himself on the films. But little girls were not of any particular interest to him as far as I know. And certainly not as far as I could see.
He was wonderfully gracious. Very patient when the camera wouldn't work. The picture of myself with him is one of my prize possessions.
But it was just an innocent picture of a barely adolescent girl with a man who was nothing but nice to her.
He died a horrible death. And I was shocked and horribly distressed at what I learned of his lifestyle. But to me he was very kind, and very proper. It was the very chastest and most appropriate kiss you could imagine. It was an innocent and happy moment in my life, and an innocent moment in his.
Now, I never claimed not to have erotic fantasies about Bob Crane. Or as erotic as a twelve or thirteen year old could manage at least. I've seen my diaries of the time. I didn't manage to conjure more than the mildest hint of Eros.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:30:52
In reply to Re: bob crane » henrietta, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:26:03
rofl
Poor Bob. Bob Crane that is.
To imagine that he could get the teensiest bit of sexual gratification from a peck on the lips with a flat chested little girl who was so tongue tied that her father had to ask him to kiss her while her mother took their picture.
And I of course was beet red and nearly crying of embarrassment and excitement.
Oh, the very picture!!!!
Bless the man for keeping a straight face with no more of those charming eye crinkles than would be expected from a kind smile.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:38:41
In reply to Re: bob crane, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:30:52
Oh Henrietta, thank you.
I haven't laughed so hard for days. What a wonderful though embarrassing memory you've brought to vivid life.
I checked my framed signature. I was only twelve. And so very disappointed that I didn't have any cleavage, because he had said on Tattletales (with great feeling) that he was a breast man. All my dreams of being swept away by the dashing Colonel Hogan brought to dust by the slowness of puberty!
So instead of the grand romance I dreamed of, I got a sweet moment that is still framed on my wall. Not a bad trade really.
Posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:43:37
In reply to Re: bob crane, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:30:52
I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to suggest he got any erotic gratification from your interaction.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:48:45
In reply to Re: bob crane » Dinah, posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:43:37
Well thank heavens!!!
When you asked if he was a pedophile, I got the funniest picture in my head!
I'm sure my gratification was every bit as erotic as I could muster, if that's what you meant. Bob Crane's lips touched my own! I'm pretty sure I didn't wash them for weeks.
That doesn't mean that Deneb's feelings for Dr. Bob mirror mine for *my* Bob. I don't ever remember Deneb talking about Dr. Bob in anywhere near the same way that I talked about the roguishly sexy Colonel Hogan.
Posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:58:24
In reply to Re: bob crane » henrietta, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 20:48:45
My last little post has disappeared.
Best as I can recall it said something like this:
"Ah, yes, these are Administrative issues.
But seriously, Dinah, I was attempting to get at much larger issues. Never mind."
Good night!
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2009, at 21:36:20
In reply to Re: bob crane » Dinah, posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:58:24
I'm terribly literal at times.
I read your post as being about Bob Crane, whether he was a child molester or killed by a child molester, and Lolita and the sexuality and abuse of young girls.
I'm afraid I did totally miss the larger point.
But that's ok. As you say, never mind.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 5, 2009, at 23:35:58
In reply to bob crane, posted by henrietta on August 5, 2009, at 20:10:18
> > One pitfall is that I might show favoritism?
>
> Yes, that's one. I also think of more.
>
> Glydin 00What other ones?
--
> That is what is painful for me. I know this will end in pain.
>
> Bay> Lolita didn't really recognize her burgeoning, healthy, juvenile erotic drives, and was in no way responsible for the irresponsible and damaging behavior of Humbert Humbert
>
> HenriettaSo feeling uncomfortable may in part reflect anxiety about what may happen. Since love can expose one to irresponsibility and damage and pain. Which some of you may know firsthand.
--
> I am not saying that YOU are the one to treat her. But, you ought to privately be explaining this to her, and encouraging her to work hard on getting past this so she can work on the real issues.
>
> BayBut wouldn't that be support and education as opposed to board management?
Bob
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