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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 158. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kath on May 20, 2009, at 13:50:53
In reply to Re: ME THREE! :), posted by alexandra_k on May 16, 2009, at 23:27:29
> Wouldn't it be so much 'nicer' if there were a way to take the grain of 'truth' in what both greywolf and myself were saying that didn't require people to 'take sides'?
>
> Because really... That isn't what it is about really, is it? I mean greywolf posted their experience (which is of course valid) and I posted my experience (which is of course valid) and of course it is perfectly possible for two different people to have two different experiences and yet both gain from learning about the (different) experiences of others.
>
> Isn't there?
~ ~ I really appreciated the tone of your post. I don't have personal experience about blocks. I think I once got a PBC & just about withered!!!Your post reminded me of my Group Therapist. When one of us makes a statement & then says "but" & continues - she says "AND". For newer people, they don't get that she means say 'and' instead of 'but' so as not to cancel out the first part of the statement! I find myself doing it in life in general now. I'll interrupt myself to say 'and'.
Your post was a reminder to me to say 'and' about this issue. Thanks for helping me to be more sensitive to people's feelings who've had pain from themselves or friends being blocked.
:-)) Kath
Posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 15:19:22
In reply to I liked your post - thx » alexandra_k, posted by Kath on May 20, 2009, at 13:50:53
You are a dear, Kath. Thanks for gracing us
with your positive presence.Gobbledygook - :)
Posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 16:44:44
In reply to Me too. It seems to work. (nm) » greywolf, posted by SLS on May 12, 2009, at 6:30:28
Hi Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS,
I just want to apologize in case any of you
felt your feelings were negated by my post
in trying to help validate Alexandra K's
feelings.None of us here have easy lives, and I think
we're all trying our best to get through our
difficulties...so, I'm very, very glad that
this site is helping you and you're having
good experiences.For me, it's important to give support and
validation to people who haven't been as
fortunate. It's sad to see people come here
for help only to experience something opposite.Me?...I've experienced both, so I try to
balance the bad with the good. But, I hope
someone will be there for me if I ever get
walked down the "Block Parade" with a
6 month sentence stamped on my forehead. Ouch!
That would send me back to intensive therapy
for sure!Last thing I want to do is further bring pain
to anyone here, so I hope you accept my sincere
apology if I've hurt you with anything I've said
or taken anything away from your positive
experience here.Gobbledygook
Posted by greywolf on May 21, 2009, at 17:21:10
In reply to Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS... » SLS, posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 16:44:44
Hi Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS,
>
> I just want to apologize in case any of you
> felt your feelings were negated by my post
> in trying to help validate Alexandra K's
> feelings.
>
> None of us here have easy lives, and I think
> we're all trying our best to get through our
> difficulties...so, I'm very, very glad that
> this site is helping you and you're having
> good experiences.
>
> For me, it's important to give support and
> validation to people who haven't been as
> fortunate. It's sad to see people come here
> for help only to experience something opposite.
>
> Me?...I've experienced both, so I try to
> balance the bad with the good. But, I hope
> someone will be there for me if I ever get
> walked down the "Block Parade" with a
> 6 month sentence stamped on my forehead. Ouch!
> That would send me back to intensive therapy
> for sure!
>
> Last thing I want to do is further bring pain
> to anyone here, so I hope you accept my sincere
> apology if I've hurt you with anything I've said
> or taken anything away from your positive
> experience here.
>
> GobbledygookI think that was a very nice expression of your sentiments and I'll take them in the positive spirit that you intend.
Greywolf
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2009, at 20:52:46
In reply to You are a dear... » Kath, posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 15:19:22
That was awfully nice, as was the post after it!
xoxo Kath
Posted by raisinb on May 28, 2009, at 18:12:37
In reply to Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS... » SLS, posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 16:44:44
Please don't worry about it. I think you have been completely respectful in your posts.
Posted by gobbledygook on May 28, 2009, at 18:51:29
In reply to Re: Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS... » gobbledygook, posted by raisinb on May 28, 2009, at 18:12:37
Thanks, Raisinb.
I have always valued your thoughts
on things, so that means a lot to me.Ava-
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 6:04:02
In reply to Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS... » SLS, posted by gobbledygook on May 21, 2009, at 16:44:44
I am in agreement with Raisinb.
I guess I should have written something earlier. As I was reading your "apology" post, I remember feeling that it was unnecessary, and that you had not crossed any of the boundaries that you thought you may have.
- Scott
Posted by gobbledygook on May 29, 2009, at 16:26:51
In reply to Re: Greywolf, Raisinb and SLS... » gobbledygook, posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 6:04:02
After re-reading the thread, I felt my reply was clumsily worded in a way that might
have been hurtful to you. And I felt bad about it.Then, I felt even worse after reading and being moved by your "Memorial Day" post
as I've also been "there"...you are not alone. I hope you're feeling better now.Thanks for your kind reply, Scott.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 4, 2009, at 1:12:45
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules, posted by alexandra_k on May 14, 2009, at 14:42:51
> I'm glad that you haven't had the unfortunate experience of seeing ... good friends get blocked
>
> I'm glad you also haven't been subject to blocks when you didn't see them coming.
>
> alexandra_kBlocks are certainly unfortunate. I think a lot of them could be avoided. For example, by clarifying intentions or apologizing. They way posters have in this thread:
> I don't think it was fair to Greywolf that you personalized your statements towards him in a way that resembled an attack.
>
> SLS> I don't see how what I said was 'resembling an attack'. That certainly wasn't my intention.
>
> alexandra_k> I don't think it's fair to Alexandra K to say that she personalized her statements towards Greywolf that resembled an attack.
>
> gobbledygook> I just want to apologize in case any of you felt your feelings were negated by my post in trying to help validate Alexandra K's feelings.
>
> gobbledygookScott, did you intend to for alex to feel accused? Could you rethink what you said? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 6:12:07
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules » SLS, posted by Dr. Bob on June 4, 2009, at 1:12:45
> > I'm glad that you haven't had the unfortunate experience of seeing ... good friends get blocked
> >
> > I'm glad you also haven't been subject to blocks when you didn't see them coming.
> >
> > alexandra_k
>
> Blocks are certainly unfortunate. I think a lot of them could be avoided. For example, by clarifying intentions or apologizing. They way posters have in this thread:
>
> > I don't think it was fair to Greywolf that you personalized your statements towards him in a way that resembled an attack.
> >
> > SLS
>
> > I don't see how what I said was 'resembling an attack'. That certainly wasn't my intention.
> >
> > alexandra_k
>
> > I don't think it's fair to Alexandra K to say that she personalized her statements towards Greywolf that resembled an attack.
> >
> > gobbledygook
>
> > I just want to apologize in case any of you felt your feelings were negated by my post in trying to help validate Alexandra K's feelings.
> >
> > gobbledygook
>
> Scott, did you intend to for alex to feel accused? Could you rethink what you said? Thanks,
>
> Bob
For what it is worth, I had reread the thread a number of times since submitting my post.Upon further reflection, I would not change a single thing except for the way I chose to act on my thoughts and feelings. In the future, I will try to use the notification feature of this website.
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on June 4, 2009, at 16:44:05
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 6:12:07
My impression is that this is a misunderstanding.
Greywolf gave an opinion.
Alex spoke passionately in a way that would have kinda hurt me if I'd been on the receiving end of it but which *was* directed elsewhere, and Scott tried to address it by speaking about it to Alex, and so on down the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules, posted by Sigismund on June 4, 2009, at 16:44:05
> Alex spoke passionately in a way that would have kinda hurt me if I'd been on the receiving end of it but which *was* directed elsewhere
Did she? Am I missing something here? Is there a post that has my name on it that only shows up for others or something?
What I see is an initial post where the poster is saying that posters here seem to be sincere and kind and that the rules don't really affect them.
I then see a post I wrote basically saying that it would be wonderful if the rules didn't really affect one. I then listed certain experiences that I've had here. I'm not sure how the initial poster would feel if they had seen either themself or their friends here blocked for such things. Would they feel the same way or wouldn't they? Maybe they would still feel the rules don't really affect them or maybe they wouldn't. I don't understand why someone would feel hurt in response to my raising this (unless someone judged my post to be insincere, sarcastic or whatever - and I clarified that that was not my intention).
But perhaps people know me better than I know myself. It wasn't a 'report' of various things that have happened here it was 'impassioned'. It wasn't responding to the initial post the way other people do it is 'directed' in a way that is considered unacceptable. There is a name for that: Crazy-making. And as always what will happen depends on what Bob wants to happen. Sometimes he accepts apologies, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he accepts rephrases, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes people get blocked for jumping to conclusions about the intentions of others, sometimes people get blocked for having what has been determined to be ill intent. Sometimes people agree with his decision (in which case they feel safe) and othertimes they don't (in which case they don't feel safe).
I... Can't be bothered anymore. And there it is.
Posted by Kath on June 4, 2009, at 17:47:50
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 17:06:57
> > Alex spoke passionately in a way that would have kinda hurt me if I'd been on the receiving end of it but which *was* directed elsewhere
>
> Did she? Am I missing something here? Is there a post that has my name on it that only shows up for others or something?~ ~ ~ Dear Alex, I think it's the 3rd post on the thread that's being referred to. I think it's because it says, "I'm glad that you..." etc.
(((you))) I send loving hugs,
Kath
Posted by Kath on June 4, 2009, at 17:50:24
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 17:06:57
PS - when I read the May 14th post, I only 'heard' what you said being said with sincerity. Not in an attacking way.
Kath
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 17:57:35
In reply to PS » alexandra_k, posted by Kath on June 4, 2009, at 17:50:24
Posted by Kath on June 4, 2009, at 18:19:47
In reply to Case closed? (nm), posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 17:57:35
Dear 'one-of-my-favourite-people' (aka SLS, aka Scott)
My case is closed - if I had one
:-)
Ya know, Dr. Bob suggested that we sort of try to help each other reframe things, or word things differently, etc. I think it is extremely hard to avoid hurting people's feelings. I also think it's really hard to 'talk about' things in typing. There's no tone-of-voice in typing! There are no body-language clues. Etcetera.
It's very tricky.
I send you loving hugs Scott. sincerely, Kath
PS, DebR just turned up on PB2000 ! ! ! Do you think it's our Deb from Australia?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:25:33
In reply to Case closed? (nm), posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 17:57:35
Well that depends really.
The impression I was getting was that Bob was giving you an opportunity to clarify your intent or apologize for jumping to conclusions about me.
The point of the examples were that the other people who were involved in this controversy did attempt to clarify their intent and apologize to others who may have been hurt by what they said.
You declined to do so.
Whether you are blocked for declining to apologize or rephrase is, well, up to Bob, really.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:26:15
In reply to Re: Case closed?, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:25:33
Though of course an apology doesn't mean anything at all to me at this point. Because... You don't understand.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:28:42
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules » alexandra_k, posted by Kath on June 4, 2009, at 17:47:50
> I think it's the 3rd post on the thread that's being referred to.
I see that one. I don't see it being inappropriately directed or personal or hostile or impassioned.
> I think it's because it says, "I'm glad that you..." etc.
And... I am glad. What is bad about being glad? I understand people feeling upset if they thought it was sarcastic - but it wasn't. Being glad makes it inappropriately directed or personal or hostile or impassioned?
Whatever.
I really am sick of this place.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:33:12
In reply to Re: Case closed?, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:25:33
> Well that depends really.
>
> The impression I was getting was that Bob was giving you an opportunity to clarify your intent or apologize for jumping to conclusions about me.
>
> The point of the examples were that the other people who were involved in this controversy did attempt to clarify their intent and apologize to others who may have been hurt by what they said.
>
> You declined to do so.
>
> Whether you are blocked for declining to apologize or rephrase is, well, up to Bob, really.But here I am speculating about what goes on in his mind again. And really, it is a whole heap better for me if I don't try and do that.
How would you feel, Scott, if someone told you that one of your posts 'appears attacking'? How would you feel is someone said that when you really didn't mean for your post to appear that way? How would you feel if the person who said that about your post didn't seem to understand or care that you might well feel upset about their jumping to conclusions about your intent? How would you feel if in response to your saying that you really didn't intend it in that way they said that they regretted saying that because they could have just reported the post (I guess the idea there is the hope that they will be blocked for what they said)
How would you feel?
What do you think I am such that my feelings simply don't matter to you at all?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:44:42
In reply to Re: Case closed?, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:33:12
but then 'reality testing' really is a problem. and sometimes i get bob's calls and othertimes i don't. thought they were pretty good for a while there. now... whatever. i guess the thing is that the best way to get better at the realilty testing thing is basically to spend time with people who seem to have it fairly sorted. was crazymaking for me living with a roommate with issues. perhaps because our issues clashed or maybe resulted in both of us having that aspect amplified. i just know that i do a whole heap better in life and a whole heap better in my own mental health if i try and hang around basically healthy people.
trauma bonding...
identifying with being mentally ill...
time to move on, huh. i think (for me) it really is progress.
i don't need to or want to deal with this anymore.
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 20:43:54
In reply to Re: Case closed?, posted by alexandra_k on June 4, 2009, at 19:44:42
I love this place despite the rules greywolf 5/11/09
* Me too. It seems to work. (nm) » greywolf SLS 5/12/09
* Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
* Re: I love this place despite the rules » alexandra_k SLS 5/14/09
* Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
* Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
* Some love this place despite the rules » SLS gobbledygook 5/14/09
* Re: I love this place despite the rules greywolf 5/14/09
* Thanks, Scott (nm) greywolf 5/14/09
Ok. I didn't want to have to go with this. It is truly a no-brainer, but I just wish someone else had taken note of it:Just what in the hell do you think Greywolf was thanking me for?
- Scott
Posted by twinleaf on June 4, 2009, at 21:14:52
In reply to Re: I love this place despite the rules, posted by alexandra_k on May 14, 2009, at 14:42:51
Alex still has it right. Often, things go reasonably well here. But it is still shocking and hurtful when blocks are issued without warning, are given for statements where the poster in question is unaware of hurting anyone and did not mean to do so, and when they are rapidly escalated in a punitive and destructive manner. It is no accident that many of us have therapists who are appalled by the inconsistent and vindictive way that Bob administers blocks. In a forum devoted to mental health, Bob's actions stand out to them as falling far short of what they would hope to see in a professional mental health administrator.
If I understood her properly, Alex wanted to be understood for sharing some of these feelings I mentioned. It would be useless for her to have a forced apology from SLS, requested by Bob, but unaccompanied by any understanding of why she had said what she did. This is a major failing on this site. Because of Bob's personal cast of mind, rules and directives invariably predominate over understanding, compassion and human relatedness.
Posted by greywolf on June 5, 2009, at 0:04:28
In reply to Re: Case closed?, posted by SLS on June 4, 2009, at 20:43:54
> I love this place despite the rules greywolf 5/11/09
>
> * Me too. It seems to work. (nm) » greywolf SLS 5/12/09
> * Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
> * Re: I love this place despite the rules » alexandra_k SLS 5/14/09
> * Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
> * Re: I love this place despite the rules alexandra_k 5/14/09
> * Some love this place despite the rules » SLS gobbledygook 5/14/09
> * Re: I love this place despite the rules greywolf 5/14/09
> * Thanks, Scott (nm) greywolf 5/14/09
>
>
> Ok. I didn't want to have to go with this. It is truly a no-brainer, but I just wish someone else had taken note of it:
>
> Just what in the hell do you think Greywolf was thanking me for?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>I thanked Scott because I did, indeed, feel attacked, albeit in a sarcastic way, by Alexandra K's post. Was I upset? No, because it was clear that Alexandra has issues with rules enforcement that I either don't have or haven't had to deal with personally.
I just wish that my expression of positive feelings for PB hadn't been turned into a controversy when all I intended was a personal statement of appreciation. I was somewhat taken aback by Alexandra's response to me, but it is a public forum and she's entitled to express her opinion. I'll leave judgment of the manner of expression to others.
Greywolf
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