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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 226 to 250 of 304. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 19, 2009, at 20:46:41
I'm so glad for these threads on admin. If it wasn't for threads like these I could almost find myself being tempted to return here. Reading threads like this reminds me how people genuinely care about posters and about Babble more generally, which prompts them to put a great deal of time and energy into clearly conveying concrete suggestions for how Babble could be more friendly and accepting (e.g., by having less punative punishments) and then how Bob manages to miss that point entirely and strongly imply that posters don't care for their fellow posters insofar as they aren't working hard to encourage them to tow his line. Somehow Bob's doing this isn't considered uncivil. It isn't thought to be jumping to conclusions about the intentions of others. It isn't thought to be being uncharitable towards the intentions of others. Any suggestion that this is so is thought by Bob to be an expression of the posters pathology. Wow. So much has changed since the two or three or however many years since I have been able to get a post on the boards which isn't up for immediate deletion. As gg was fond of saying (when she wasn't snorting in a non-sarcastic fashion) 'the wheels on the bus go round and round'. Reporting my PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTION as FACT (and not as expression of feeling or opinion) I have a little throw up in my mouth right now. Quite literally.
I really can't believe that I used to support Bob in his civility rules. Whenever I couldn't understand why he interpreted those words uncharitably I'd charitably construct a little story to myself that justified his actions. Over and over and over. Over time it got harder and harder to do. Such inconsistencies between one being blocked for f*rt or sh*t without an asterisk whereas another was not. Massive searches in the archives to try and charitably construct why on earth one was a blockable offence whereas the other was not. I was destroyed when I found that I could not. Literally blown apart. There was no rhyme or reason. Bob was blocking people for up to one year for ARBITRARY reasons that weren't consistently applied. If the blocks weren't so punative one could forgive a little inconsistency. But Bob was blocking people for up to one year for ARBITRARY reasons.
Threads like this... Posters put so much time and effort into stating their views clearly. Into providing concrete suggestions of how Bob could interfeare less with the support and education that posters provide to one another here. And Bob proceeds to... Well... It starts to look like he almost willfully misses the point. Or maybe that isn't it. Maybe it is that... He just can't face it. Sometimes people have mental blocks. Something that they just can't face. Maybe this is one of those things for Bob. He just can't accept that his blocks have been damaging in a way that isn't for the good of the group after all. Maybe it would be like being a Nazi soldior or something. If you genuinely believed that killing Jews was for the good of the Aryan people then killing Jews might be distasteful to you to be sure, but if was for the good of the Aryan people so it was justified. Finding out that the Jews were people too and that one had really damaged them a great deal... Finding out that killing them really wasn't benefiting the Aryan people in any way well... I wonder how many suicides there were. Maybe the thought that the punitative punishments here are needless is something that Bob... Just can't face. I mean it is something that both posters and other professionals have been saying to him for years.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2009, at 19:14:42
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:16:54
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
((( Alex )))
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:19:08
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
But he gets his small boards after all. As posters come to appreciate the situation for what it is: Seeing the wheels go round and round with not much change to the punitive punishments (or only a temporary change till the pressure is off then things can go right back to what they were). People are posting less. The archives are down. Less diversity of posting names. Sure he has got a little story to himself about how its correlated with him being around less or about how its correlated with his dissociation from google but if he really wanted to know he could manipulate those variables... He didn't need to gate entry from the community as a whole, he just needed to let the community see how the wheels were turning and the gating into the community as a whole, well, took care of that problem for him. Threads like this help to be sure.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:23:44
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 19:19:08
If you really cared for your black sister you would tell her to stand the hell up and give the white man his seat.
Can't you see how f*ck*ng offensive that is?
Posted by BayLeaf on April 21, 2009, at 19:40:24
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
It'a really great to hear from you again. This place needs your voice.
Bay
Posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 20:06:55
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 18:56:41
> I really can't believe that I used to support Bob in his civility rules. Whenever I couldn't understand why he interpreted those words uncharitably I'd charitably construct a little story to myself that justified his actions. Over and over and over.
And what is worse I thought that being a good friend to people meant working with them to try and help them understand why they had been blocked. I'd come up with little stories that seemed to make sense of Bob's blocking them. I'd try and help them see that that was why they were blocked thinking that if they could understand what they did wrong they could see how to alter their behavior in the future. I thought they would see that the block really was for the good of the group and that things would be nicer if they altered their behavior in future. I remember telling them that I could empathize with their feeling bad and that I was trying to help them as a gesture of friendship.
I lost friends over that. Larry Hoover. When he was blocked for being righteously angry with Deneb for posting something about how she was going to hurt herself of something like that. I thought I was being a friend to him. I thought that that was how one could be a good friend. You don't know what it means to be a good friend, do you Bob. I understand Larry's feeling on that now. He had the physiological reaction that I did above. He did not take kindly to my doing that.
I guess Bob didn't think that Larry and Deneb were good enough friends for them to be able to sort things out. I guess Bob didn't have much faith that other posters would step up to help them understand where each other was coming from. I don't think Bob knows what it means to be a friend.
Why don't you go away Bob? You were basically gone for a while and I thought I could return if you weren't around. But then you come back and post innane things like you have done on this thread. Covert incivilities and judgements of negative intent and whatever whatever all phrased so its technically within the guidelines imparted to you by God along with divine command on appropriate retribution for infractions. Why don't you go away and let people support each other? People have been saying this: Go away. If you are only going to come here to block and be uncharitable towards the intentions of others go away. Your presence here is not benign.
Posted by Sigismund on April 21, 2009, at 20:38:01
In reply to Re: an opportunity » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 19:16:54
Alex is back!
This has made my day.
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2009, at 21:40:26
In reply to Re: an opportunity » rskontos, posted by Sigismund on April 20, 2009, at 19:29:24
Yep that is something I noticed too.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2009, at 21:48:09
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by alexandra_k on April 21, 2009, at 20:06:55
>>Your presence here is not benign.>>>
AMEN!
rsk
Posted by Cass on April 21, 2009, at 22:21:54
In reply to Re: an opportunity » alexandra_k, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2009, at 21:48:09
My participation here has been sporadic for years now, and I don't know the circumstances surrounding people who have been blocked. I'm not going to take the time or energy to look in the archives. From my own experience, I've found Dr. Bob to be very kind. I can hardly believe he would arbitrarily block someone without reason. All this commotion makes me sad. It seems like some of you are villainizing him. I don't believe he is the cruel person some of you make him out to be.
Posted by Sigismund on April 22, 2009, at 3:01:30
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Cass on April 21, 2009, at 22:21:54
>I can hardly believe he would arbitrarily block someone without reason.
He wouldn't.
You're right.
But he does arbitrarily block people.
I'm sure he has he has reasons.
That's why I described the blocks as capricious, meaning of a whim ie for reasons of his own.
Posted by Cass on April 22, 2009, at 18:20:19
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Cass, posted by Sigismund on April 22, 2009, at 3:01:30
I guess I stepped right into that.
Posted by myco on April 22, 2009, at 22:11:27
In reply to Imps are never around when you need them » Dinah, posted by verne on April 21, 2009, at 8:58:15
this piece of sh*t they call verne is still posting here? lol damn
> I'm such a dim bulb, I only understood about 1% of your post. How can a post be that long yet still be incomprehensible?
>
> I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, especially Dr Bob's, or appeal to any sort of logic - unless it's real low-watt or twisted.
>
> I just like to cause the maximum amount of trouble and let others sort it out.
>
> More weight.
>
> the imp
>
>
>
>
Posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 1:18:37
In reply to Re: Imps are never around when you need them » verne, posted by myco on April 22, 2009, at 22:11:27
this piece of sh*t they call verne is still posting here?
I ask myself that question,too.
Posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 14:03:47
In reply to I'm a complete Piece of Something » myco, posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 1:18:37
I just realized I forgot to double quote a movie I mentioned earlier in this thread.
Some critics include it in their top ten yet it has almost disappeared.
"King Rat" Set in a Japanese POW camp but it's more than a war or prison movie. "Lord of the Flies" comes to mind. King Rat is a great movie and Lord of the Flies, a great book. Movie wasn't terrible but preferred the book.
"Verne"
Posted by raisinb on April 23, 2009, at 17:13:59
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 8:23:43
Dinah, that was a sensitive and helpful clarification. Thank you. I agree with all you've said, and I am glad that you are a deputy.
Posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 17:24:41
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dinah, posted by raisinb on April 23, 2009, at 17:13:59
Dinah meant well and good but straining at "peace" doesn't work. Sometimes the peacemakers cause more trouble than the troublemakers.
Vribble von QuibblesWorth
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 24, 2009, at 2:01:57
In reply to Bob's attention span » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2009, at 10:20:14
> Bob, you have the attention span of a gnat
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 2 weeks
period of time since previous block: 4 weeks
severity: 2 (default)
block length = 3.70 rounded = 4 weeks
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 24, 2009, at 2:06:59
In reply to I'm a complete Piece of Something » myco, posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 1:18:37
> Hmmmm, well, sometimes, in the name of chartitablness and acceptance, we can *first* warn, immediately B4 punish(like 24 hrs) THEN if no satisfaction, perhaps a SHORT block.
>
> blocking posters, effectively banishing them for WEEKS, MONTHS at a time isn't exactly accepting behaviour....I expect it FEELS more like 'F off you disgusting person'... :-(
>
> Less shooting is good BUT, one thing that seems intrinsic to therapy, is that when there ARE breakdowns, some of the greatest gains are made by REPAIR of the relationship. If you block for weeks at a time, the window of opportunity for repair is lost.
> Conflict AND a chance for repair = growth...
>
> Dude, you think we not care bout Pat??? Of COURSE we do, DUUUUUHHHHHH.
> I also know, that she is a smart , intelligent woman, who knows the rules here, who knows what is what.
> She is NOT STUPID.
> Sh*t.
> This where you really don't get it do you?
>
> Everyboddys got their 'stuff', you too Bob, thats OK, but manoman, you surely make me nuts from time to time.
> LOL! Mebbe cuz I care hey?
>
> Muffled> > The "herd" here seems to be willing to let Fayeroe fall overboard. But maybe people are trying to support her behind the scenes. I hope so.
>
> This baffles me. How is Fayeroe falling overboard?
>
> rsk> helping others "rephrase" or whatever is not "supporting" them--it's supporting you and your current policies.
>
> raisinb> If you really cared for your black sister you would tell her to stand the hell up and give the white man his seat.
>
> Can't you see how f*ck*ng offensive that is?
>
> alexandra_kThis isn't therapy, but repair still would be nice. But the more conflict there's been, the harder it is. But it's not impossible even after weeks or months -- or years.
Blocks are about posts, not posters, though I understand posters may still take them personally. How short should blocks be? Around a month maximum was suggested before.
I saw being blocked as like falling overboard. I see how apologizing or rephrasing would support my civility policy (and repair), but not how it would support my blocking policy. Is civility or blocking the issue? I haven't meant to imply that anyone doesn't care about Fayeroe. I did think helping her stay on board was one way to show caring. Would you want your sister to go to jail?
Muffled, thanks for caring.
--
> > helping them avoid a block afterwards just means one fewer missing loved one.
>
> Why did you ask us so many times to get Verne and Jade to apologize to you? After the fact..
>
> FayeroeSo we wouldn't lose more loved ones.
> Capricious blocks (zazenducke) inevitably lead to resentment.
>
> SigismundCaprice is in the eye of the beholder. Resentment may lead to uncivil posts that lead to blocks.
> For reasons not clear to me, some people get the chance to apologise and some do not.
>
> SigismundEveryone always has the chance to apologize, and to encourage others to apologize, right away. I thought more opportunity to try that out might help, so I've been giving posters extra time when it's involved me lately.
> I think jade thought quite hard and tried to come up with as close to an aplogy as she could muster, though it perhaps was more an explanation.
>
> SigismundI haven't meant to imply that she didn't try her best. Maybe she could've used some advice on form, after all.
> I *do* think that sometimes posters are fully cognizant of the results of their posts, and would not consider other posters urging them to apologize as supportive. I think that posters are trying to convey that to Dr. Bob right now. I do understand that a poster has the right to choose to protest what they see as unjust laws by choosing to do what they are aware will result in a block.
>
> DinahThat's a good point, it could be another way of being true to oneself. A form of civil disobedience. But when people are civilly disobedient, they accept the consequences.
> verne is still posting here? lol damn
>
> mycoand myco too? lol damn
Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:19:16
In reply to The problem with Peacemakers, posted by verne on April 23, 2009, at 17:24:41
True enough, Verne, as I've often discovered to my dismay.
"the wisdom to know the difference" is the part of the Serenity Prayer I find myself saying most often.
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:19:59
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dinah, posted by raisinb on April 23, 2009, at 17:13:59
Thanks, Raisinb. I never quite know if I should get involved.
Posted by raisinb on April 24, 2009, at 17:06:24
In reply to Re: an opportunity » raisinb, posted by Dinah on April 24, 2009, at 16:19:59
With all this going on, I appreciate how difficult the job must be! Keep on truckin' ;)
Posted by BayLeaf on April 24, 2009, at 22:35:01
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » fayeroe, posted by Dr. Bob on April 24, 2009, at 2:01:57
1) why can u not handle being called a gnat? how 'bout a gnewt? just curious...do you have an issue with insects? or the silent g?
2) Is 1 month now the new black? (max?)
Posted by Sigismund on April 26, 2009, at 23:56:38
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on April 24, 2009, at 22:35:01
Pat must understand the maths.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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