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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by Toph on February 15, 2008, at 9:32:41
In reply to Re: Blocked posters » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 9:13:50
Posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 13:29:32
In reply to Re: Blocked posters » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 9:13:50
Do you remember how you felt in jr high?
I find it contemptible that bobbo puts you in the position to do to others what was done to you. But I still hold you equally responsible for the blocks you initiate. Deferring to bob for the actual sentence does not release you from that responsibility.
If you can't help at least don't actively harm.
"just following orders" is no defense
just a general comment
Posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 13:38:20
In reply to Re: Blocking posters » Dinah, posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 13:29:32
I was blocked by you dinah for six weeks for something I didn't do.
I told my doc my friend blocked me again and he said that bitch is NOT your friend and I said O she's not a bitch that's just dinah being dinah
but I'm tired of it
Verne makes me ashamed of all the twistedness I participate in here too.
bye
zazenskunke
Posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 14:48:37
In reply to Sorry...didn't mean to cause all this trouble. (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on February 14, 2008, at 19:45:21
phillipines russia etc etc etc talk about multicultural
it's not that hard to get a woman!!!!!even one thast doesn't mind living with your momma
Posted by Deputy Racer on February 15, 2008, at 15:07:07
In reply to I statements, posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 13:38:20
>
>
> I told my doc my friend blocked me again and he said that bitch is NOT your friend and I said O she's not a bitch that's just dinah being dinah
>
>Please don't post anything which would lead someone to feel accused or put down, even if that person is a deputy here. Additionally, please don't bypass the asterisking system. Your last block was set at 11 weeks, and was up seven weeks ago by my count, so I'm currently doubling the length of that last block. I will also ask Dr Bob to review the block length, in case he'd like to revise it in either direction.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 19:12:11
In reply to I statements, posted by zazenducke on February 15, 2008, at 13:38:20
I hesitate to answer when you won't be able to respond for a while.
I do appreciate what you told your doctor.
And I do understand why you feel the way you do about me. I've never intended to hurt you, but I recognize that on occasion I have. I've tried to convey my regret and remorse for that.
But I have never intentionally blocked you for something you didn't do. I don't like blocking anyone, I don't like blocking you. I'm not saying I just follow orders. If I didn't believe that Dr. Bob was doing his best with Babble, I wouldn't serve as deputy. If I didn't think the civility guidelines were a good thing, I wouldn't be a deputy. But blocking people is not something I enjoy doing.
Like I said to Toph, sometimes two people can want the same thing. But because of different experiences and perceptions and because they're different people, how they consider the best way to achieve that can vary. You want Babble to be a safe place and so do I.
I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I've gotten the feeling over time that I've lost any positive regard you may have had for me. I've felt a great deal of sorrow for that over time. But my therapist has convinced me that sometimes there is nothing I can do beyond expressing regret, and remorse, and a desire that things be different. I have never lost my positive regard for you, even on those occasions I may feel angry or sad.
I'm not trying to get you to change your mind about me. But on my end, the door to being friends is always open. What you do with that is up to you.
Tone is hard to read in words. But while I may have a poor sense of humor and little whimsy, I am boringly earnest and generally mean what I say.
Take care of yourself, zazenducke.
Posted by Toph on February 15, 2008, at 22:30:23
In reply to Blocked for 22 weeks » zazenducke, posted by Deputy Racer on February 15, 2008, at 15:07:07
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:01:17
In reply to My point exactly (nm), posted by Toph on February 15, 2008, at 22:30:23
And if I shouldn't feel free not to explain. But I don't really understand.
Posted by 10derHeart on February 15, 2008, at 23:09:14
In reply to I suppose I shouldn't ask » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:01:17
...and I'd really like to.
What part of Racer's post was "your point exactly?"
Posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 11:35:45
In reply to Toph, I didn't understand either..., posted by 10derHeart on February 15, 2008, at 23:09:14
Toph, are you by any chance saying that if a poster appears to be "acting out" as I think you said above, and it's not unreasonable to hypothesize that the behavior could be driven by something related to a mental illness or a significant stress, that blocking is not necessarily the best approach to dealing with the behavior, if it's considered to be uncivil?
Yeesh, what a long question, sorry.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 11:37:06
In reply to Re: Toph, I didn't understand either..., posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 11:35:45
To add to my question above, What if even if the "acting out" behavior could be viewed as attacking one or more posters?
Posted by Phillipa on February 16, 2008, at 11:45:08
In reply to And to add...Toph, posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 11:37:06
I feel sometimes that it is really just a wrong pick of words that letting the posters work it out on line by themselves might be a better way. I remember when first here that is what seemed to happen. Posters recognized their error and apologized. Hope this makes sense. Phillipa ps an out and out battle is a different story and blocking or calling attention to the behavior may be then warranted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2008, at 15:14:42
In reply to Blocked for 22 weeks » zazenducke, posted by Deputy Racer on February 15, 2008, at 15:07:07
> Your last block was set at 11 weeks, and was up seven weeks ago by my count, so I'm currently doubling the length of that last block. I will also ask Dr Bob to review the block length, in case he'd like to revise it in either direction.
According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 11 weeks
period of time since previous block: 5 weeks
severity: 2 (default) + 1 (uncivil toward particular individuals) + 1 (uncivil in multiple posts at same time) = 4
block length = 37.91 rounded = 38 weeksBob
Posted by Toph on February 17, 2008, at 21:54:42
In reply to I suppose I shouldn't ask » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:01:17
My point is that I expect my clients to frequently be suspicious of me when I knock on their doors and co-workers and community members to question my competence when I fail to reach someone. I try my best all the time not to resent clients or punish them for acting the way I would if someone knocked on my door professing to offer me support.
Maybe I'm a little sensitive because I have over the years attended a few Bipolar support groups (Manic-Depressive support groups at the time) that were invariably filled with depressed people. Ironically you were not welcome if you were manic. Psycho Babble really isn't for everybody is it?
Posted by Racer on February 18, 2008, at 9:54:24
In reply to TDH, gg + » Dinah, posted by Toph on February 17, 2008, at 21:54:42
>
>
> Maybe I'm a little sensitive because I have over the years attended a few Bipolar support groups (Manic-Depressive support groups at the time) that were invariably filled with depressed people. Ironically you were not welcome if you were manic. Psycho Babble really isn't for everybody is it?That's funny, because when I used to go to a DMDA support group, I was usually the only unipolar there, and often felt overwhelmed by the hypomanic states of the other attendees. It seemed as though I was the only one who showed up in the depths of depression -- that group was teh only thing keeping me alive just then -- everyone else came because they felt good and wanted to talk about it, or they felt angry and aggressive and wanted to talk about that.
Only once in close to two years did I see someone leave because of mania. Something triggered him in the course of the group, and we could see him trying to control himself, but losing the battle. He is the one who said he had to go, although the group leader agreed that he should. That was full fledged "I can FLY" mania, and he had to get somewhere where he could get help. Otherwise, we saw a lot of manic energy in that group -- and me, of course...
Then again, all those groups will work according to local conditions and needs, so the group you went to may have had different rules.
Those groups are not for everyone, and neither is PsychoBabble. I'm just grateful that PsychoBabble has been here for me for so very long now. It's meant a lot to me, despite the difficulties I've experienced -- and the difficulties I have myself in understanding how I can express my own hurt feelings without being uncivil towards someone else.
Posted by karen_kay on February 18, 2008, at 10:10:58
In reply to TDH, gg + » Dinah, posted by Toph on February 17, 2008, at 21:54:42
you said "Psycho Babble really isn't for everybody is it?"
it may not be for everyone, but it's certainly for you dear!
it's been a long issue about blockign people who are acting out. i know when i need a break, i act out (and not in the best way really), and get the block i desperately need. honestly, i very rarely get blocked without knowing ahead of time i will be. unfortunetly, that's nto the same for others. though, i tend to stay away from posts that may cause me to be uncivil. and i always thought i had no self-control! go figure!
babble may not be for everyone (though i disagree with that statement. babble should be for everyone that registers, and posters shouldn't be blocked for stating their opinions.) and i think it's pretty sad that one can't express the 'i'm hurt' statement without fear of a block. i still haven't figured out how to say that, in a civil way.
toph, have i told you lately how much i respect you? see, i can say somethign without hitting on you!!! (do you wanna get married or soemthin?)
Posted by Toph on February 18, 2008, at 10:38:07
In reply to Interesting... » Toph, posted by Racer on February 18, 2008, at 9:54:24
I went half way across the city to attend the Chicago Manic Depressive Association in the early 80s. Gave it a couple tries. I'm not shy so I started talking about driving my car 100 miles an hour, throwing my TV out the window, doing donuts on some golf course and riding in a frozen paddy wagon naked to Reed Zone state psych ward one January. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy. Duh. I WAS crazy. I gave up on the group until about 5 years ago when I just popped in on a group in a northern suburb. Everyone was half my age which was cool with me, but they all were depressed and hardly anyone worked and I didn't dare start telling stories about speeding and running around naked. Never went back.
I think some posters find Babble just as uninviting as I found these support groups. Ironic and sad. Then again you can come here and some chick might ask you to marry them. Go figure. The saddest part is when we get to know someone here and then they have some kind of meltdown. Well, you know the rest.
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 11:43:29
In reply to TDH, gg + » Dinah, posted by Toph on February 17, 2008, at 21:54:42
I would be reluctant to guess at the motivations of other posters. But some, if not many, posters who receive long term blocks have spoken in terms indicative of civil disobedience in response to perceived injustice.
I would not wish to write off what appear to be convictions as mental illness. That would not be a positive thing for society as a whole, I think.
Posted by Toph on February 18, 2008, at 12:29:31
In reply to Re: TDH, gg + » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 11:43:29
> I would not wish to write off what appear to be convictions as mental illness. That would not be a positive thing for society as a whole, I think.
I know you used Bob's clever I statements, but where do you get that I write off anyone Dinah? I respect people with mental illness (having it myself) and certainly know that many posters who have trouble with Babblespeak are not all mentally ill. There's nothing mutually exclusive about people with convictions and people with mental illness as you suggest. My only beef is when someone acts like they are in trouble (no matter what the cause) there's no attempt to find out why, WE JUST FREAKIN KICK THEM OUT. In some cases that's necessary, I know. In others its wrong and potentially dangerous.
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 12:35:11
In reply to Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Toph on February 18, 2008, at 12:29:31
I didn't mean write off in that way.
I meant that sometimes people can decide to use civil disobedience to protest perceived injustice. And as you say, that is independent of mental illness status.
I'm sorry if I didn't word it as I meant it.
I would have no desire to put down those with mental illness. I have my own diagnoses.
My intent was to show respect for choices.
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 12:48:52
In reply to I apologize » Toph, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 12:35:11
Clearly I'm tired and not at my best.
I apologize for any and every thing I might have said to offend you or anyone else.
My intent was to be supportive and respectful, but I have obviously fallen short.
Posted by Toph on February 18, 2008, at 13:17:17
In reply to Again, I'm sorry., posted by Dinah on February 18, 2008, at 12:48:52
It's okay, I think I know that you struggle with how to keep PB inclusive and yet safe all the time Dinah. I'm tired also.
Posted by phoenix1 on February 23, 2008, at 12:48:05
In reply to Re: blocked for 1 week » Phoenix1, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 14, 2008, at 18:34:15
I wanted to apologize to anyone that might have been offended by my post. I was obviously feeling angry and didn't think carefully before I posted. I understand that civility rules apply especially stringently to comments made about blocked posters because they have no ability to respond, but are still essentially considered a part of the community. I will avoid posting on political and administrative matters like this in the future, unless I have something civil and constructive to say. I have to say that this was the first time that I have been blocked, and I can now understand the pervasive "Fear of posting" that is being dicussed on this board. I'm not going to get a civility buddy. I will just try to avoid topics that make me feel upset or angry. Why debate or defend if civil language doesn't allow you to do this effectively, right?
Anyways, I do apologize for any offense my post may have caused.
Phoenix1
> >the posts have been clearly uncivil.
> >this person needs to work on civility skills
> >a totally unnecessary, accusatory, and angry post that was clearly intended to hurt feelings.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> Since you've been warned recently, and also given a demonstration of a rephrase using "I" statements on this board, I am going to block you from posting for one week.
>
> Simply placing the words "I feel" in front of statements that go on to negatively characterize posts or posters, or could lead them to feel accused or put down, does not meet the civility standard here. "I" statements that are okay are ones about *your* feelings, such as, "I felt upset when I read that," as opposed to, "I feel your posts are uncivil." It helps some people to ask another Babbler to be a 'civility buddy' and look over your posts before you submit them.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil.
>
> Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
>
> -- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
>
>
>
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 23, 2008, at 13:15:02
In reply to Apology, posted by phoenix1 on February 23, 2008, at 12:48:05
I appreciate you posting this apology.
I hope you won't give up on all debate/discourse here because of the civility guidelines. They do take some getting used to, I know. I guess maybe it would depend on what "effective" means to each person. I would just hate to completely lose any poster's "voice" here. But of course, those choices are entirely up to you and what feels acceptable to you.
>civility rules apply especially stringently to comments made about blocked posters because they have no ability to respond
Actually, all the deputies do our best to apply the standard of "not posting things that could lead other posters to feel accused or put down" equally regarding *any* other posters, blocked or not. I wouldn't say whether a poster can respond or not factors into the thought process.
BTW, very glad you came back :-)
Posted by rskontos on February 23, 2008, at 23:26:54
In reply to thanks » phoenix1, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 23, 2008, at 13:15:02
Phoenix,
I am sorry you got blocked as I have always enjoyed your posts.
rsk
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