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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2007, at 13:56:04
In reply to Re: please be sensitive » ClearSkies, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2007, at 1:04:24
> > Why not start your own thread
>
> There can be advantages to starting a new thread, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
>I still don't understand the problem with "why not?". I read this as clearskies suggesting the poster consider starting a new thread. Asking someone "why not X?" is asking for X to be considered if it hasn't already, and then asking the reason the possibility was rejected. What if clearskies had said something like: "Poster Doe, what if you started your own thread? Have you considered that? If so, what contributed to your decision not to?" Would that be acceptable? Isn't that a really long, clunky, and rather impersonal way of asking the same as "why not"?
When I used "why not" in a post in the past, you communicated to me something along the lines of how a poster might feel put down for not choosing that alternative or suggestion if asked "why not". At that time, I asked the question, "Why not X?" because I, -----wait for it,----- didn't know and wanted to know the answer. But then I'm a curious gal. I even like to think about new things I learn, such as why folks do a certain thing I've not ever thought of doing, because maybe I might benefit from doing it, too. Or maybe I'll just "get it" in the future. I like it when I "get it." Still working on this one.
Still, It seems that you include a negative assessment of an action (or inaction) as integral to the expression "Why not". "Why not" is short for "Why do you not", aka "Why don't you". If I said, "Why don't you take your lunch break now?", is that insensitive? It's a suggestion. Does it also mean that there's something wrong with you for not thinking of it? No. Does it also mean that you must do what I suggest or something BAD will happen? No. Does it mean that I don't think you could have any valid reasons for taking lunch at a different time or not at all? No. (Am I in danger of getting hooked on Donald Rumsfeld's speech style again? ;) Yes.)
Where is the line between something inferred or projected and what's expressed when assessing civility and sensitivity? Are we responsible for behaving in a manner which is sensitive to the mean or modal level of sensitivity in the population? And would that be a general population or Babble population? Is the 1% doctrine at work here?
How are we to know when you are more likely to take action on a post based on what you infer, despite your statements about the reliability of inferences about someone's intent? How are we to improve identifying and owning what's our own "stuff" and not owning what's not ours when we can be "handed" responsibility for someone else's stuff perhaps at a one percent likelihood level?
I really ought to be at the grocery store right now. sigh.
gg
Posted by ClearSkies on November 21, 2007, at 15:36:22
In reply to Why not be? Why be? Why not? Why? » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2007, at 13:56:04
Thanks, GG, I wanted to ask this question but figured I wouldn't be able to find the right way to do it. My intentions were sensitive and honest, even if they weren't interpreted that way.
CS
Posted by Muffled on November 21, 2007, at 23:57:48
In reply to Re: Why not be? Why be? Why not? Why? » gardenergirl, posted by ClearSkies on November 21, 2007, at 15:36:22
well from my perspective, i don't really get it either...
I CAN see as how it potentially could be taken wrong, but it didn't appaer to be.
Then later another poster kinda riled it up I'm afraid... then up to the point of cyber yelling....but that was not addressed? I don't wish to speak ill of anyone, but truly...I don't understand how one potential problem was addressed w/o the other also being addressed...
Its 'just' a civility reminder I guess, but I am also confused somewhat and would also like to understand the reasoning here...
I think the whole thing would have blown over except for it being fired up...
thanks
M
Posted by Glydin on November 22, 2007, at 7:15:46
In reply to Re: Why not be? Why be? Why not? Why?, posted by Muffled on November 21, 2007, at 23:57:48
Generalist comment:
I see nothing wrong with suggesting a poster start their own thread. I see that as no different than asking a poster to post to a more appropriate board. Some posters past, present, and probably future were, are, and will be chronic hyjackers - it appears to me to be the nature of the manner in which they post. Prehaps no malice is intended.
I find myself feeling annoyed when I see a poster injecting themselves in a thread and attempting an: "it's all about me..." feel. I find suggesting they begin a new thread as an appropriate way to address that finding in, yes, a civil way.
Posters hyjacking threads happens, however, I long figured out being irritating doesn't violate the civility guidelines. Irritation may be difficult to assess and subjective - to quote this site: ..."I know it when I see it...."
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2007, at 15:43:43
In reply to Why not be? Why be? Why not? Why? » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 21, 2007, at 13:56:04
> > > Why not start your own thread
> >
> > There can be advantages to starting a new thread, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
>
> I still don't understand the problem with "why not?".In a context like this, I'm afraid it could be interpreted as:
> > > Why not go away and leave us alone
> How are we to improve identifying and owning what's our own "stuff"
One way might be to use I-statements? Thanks for stimulating some discussion of this,
Bob
Posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:31:56
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2007, at 15:43:43
To be perfectly honest; I do not feel safe on Babble anymore. I scratch my head to understand why someone is blocked, and I wonder whose perception to go by??? For Dr. Bob, your perception of what you say above is not even close to my perception, and I know I am not that nuts, so.. I did not interpret starting one's own thread as meaning that others should go away. That was the furthest thing from my mind.
So, I am left feeling not very safe here anymore. I used to, but I don't anymore. If I post at all much anymore, I will only say very general things. Lots of babblers have said they have gotten a lot from my posts on psychology, and it has been mutual for me. Recently, however, it seems that people on the psychology board, me included, are getting blocked right and left. So, I don't feel okay much anymore.
RealMe
P.S. I hope I am not going to get blocked for saying this, but I don't feel confident at all that I won't.
Posted by Muffled on November 23, 2007, at 15:40:41
In reply to Re: Why not » Dr. Bob, posted by RealMe on November 23, 2007, at 0:31:56
Change is slow here on babble...but it DOES change.
NOwhere is 100% safe. The rules ARE confusing.
Blocks do not always make sense.
Bob, the owner of this site...well...he's Bob. I have come to accept that he is who he is.
I used to rant and rave alot on admin bout unfairness.
But seriously, it IS better than it was.
And for all my complaining I keep comming back, cuz babble, for all its flaws, well, there are ALOT of GREAT people here.
So I just, for the most part, accept the negative aspects of this plce, cuz there are no easy answers, I have come to realize this.
So I hope you can come to feel more safe here realme. It will NEVER be totally safe, its just not possible. I just am trying to learn what I can bout how to be as safe as I can.
You know, not so long ago, I was BLOCKED, for the word f*rt! Nowadays that would just get a PBC, and to me, that is the way it should be, and is a sign to me that babble is evolving and growing even better.
(Just don't get me started on block lengths!!!)
Dunno if this helps.
Muffled
Posted by rskontos on November 25, 2007, at 20:05:05
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2007, at 15:43:43
Dr Bob, I am interested in this as I have had several of my lastest threads hijacked and I really try to recognize when I hijack a thread an d apologize. I now find that I am not always part of my own thread anymore to the point I am not sure I will start anymore since they get taken away by someone else. It is really frustrating for me since the subject I was talking about was very upsetting and to get hijacked makes me want to cry. And not post. I understand no one answering as they might have anything to say but to start talking to someone else about their issues and not address the person that started the thread is just like you said Dr. Bob <<<we have more important things to discuss than your issues. >>>anyway, I haven't not said anything in my threads about it being hijacked as I didn't want to hurt them like I was hurt but I dont' know what to do about my hurt feelings so I came here to administration to ask you Dr. Bob what do you do? I am hurt now and feel like I am not important. Do I just go away for a while? rk
I apologize if this is not where I should have asked this as I don't want to be blocked either. Maybe I should have email you privately. I don't want to hurt anyone either and I don't have any ill feelings about anyone even in the hijacked threads. I just wished that they would eventually get back to what I posted in the first place so I could get some help with the issue bothering me. But maybe that is more than I should expect. I don't know anymore. rk
Posted by Deputy Dinah on November 25, 2007, at 21:05:58
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by rskontos on November 25, 2007, at 20:05:05
> Dr Bob, I am interested in this as I have had several of my lastest threads hijacked and I really try to recognize when I hijack a thread an d apologize.
A thread changing direction or topic is not against board policy, but negatively characterizing it as hijacking would be, as it could tend to lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you feel a thread has gotten off topic, it would be ok to answer in such a way as to bring it back to the original topic, without referring to other posters' posts in a negative way. It would also be ok to very carefully express your feelings in "I statements". You might wish to refer to the FAQ for more information on "I statements".
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
If you have any questions about a post you're composing, it might be a good idea to run it by a civility buddy. I use civility buddies myself, since an objective eye often helps.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2007, at 23:10:51
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by rskontos on November 25, 2007, at 20:05:05
> Dr Bob, I am interested in this as I have had several of my lastest threads hijacked ... I now find that I am not always part of my own thread anymore to the point I am not sure I will start anymore since they get taken away by someone else. It is really frustrating for me since the subject I was talking about was very upsetting and to get hijacked makes me want to cry. And not post. ... I dont' know what to do about my hurt feelings so I came here to administration to ask you Dr. Bob what do you do? I am hurt now and feel like I am not important. Do I just go away for a while?
>
> I don't have any ill feelings about anyone even in the hijacked threads. I just wished that they would eventually get back to what I posted in the first place so I could get some help with the issue bothering me. But maybe that is more than I should expect.I'm sorry this has been tough for you. But sometimes it pays to be the squeaky wheel. I mean, to keep being assertive. :-) As Dinah said, if you're not finding follow-up posts helpful, please feel free to post again about your issue. No one will give you a hard time about doing that on a thread you started yourself!
Bob
Posted by Justherself54 on November 29, 2007, at 22:04:44
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2007, at 23:10:51
Sometimes a simple "thanks all but back on topic" can get a thread back to where it should be..just a thought..
Posted by gardenergirl on November 29, 2007, at 23:33:55
In reply to Re: Why not, posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2007, at 15:43:43
> > > > Why not start your own thread
> > >
> > > There can be advantages to starting a new thread, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others.
> >
> > I still don't understand the problem with "why not?".
>
> In a context like this, I'm afraid it could be interpreted as:
>
> > > > Why not go away and leave us aloneAnd that interpretation could be interpreted as projection. Since we can't assume the poster's intent, unless you've changed your thoughts on assuming intent, I think it's prudent to take the words in the post at face value. In doing so, then, the post would be civil. Unless you've changed your thinking about intent, of course.
>
> > How are we to improve identifying and owning what's our own "stuff"
>
> One way might be to use I-statements?Why am I not surprised?
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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