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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2007, at 19:35:29
be OVER RIDDEN? If so could you please post YES to this thread so Dr Bob may see it...Thank you
Posted by fayeroe on January 21, 2007, at 20:27:27
In reply to Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2007, at 19:35:29
> be OVER RIDDEN? If so could you please post YES to this thread so Dr Bob may see it...Thank you
YES........
Posted by Poet on January 22, 2007, at 10:05:48
In reply to Re: Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would » Fallen4MyT, posted by fayeroe on January 21, 2007, at 20:27:27
YES!!!!!!!!!
Poet
Posted by muffled on January 22, 2007, at 11:04:59
In reply to Re: Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would, posted by Poet on January 22, 2007, at 10:05:48
yup,
but it won't be.
And its over :( anyways....
And mebbe HF be back, and mebbe not.
I miss her.
Just hope HF has good times wherever she is :).
Mebbe Bob needs a break anyhow.
I am actually thinking, that for the most part, Bob means well.
Mebbe we made our point, as much as its to be made.
I dunno.
Tired of fighting I guess.
Peace.
Muffled
Posted by madeline on January 22, 2007, at 13:35:29
In reply to Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2007, at 19:35:29
I wish it would be overriden, so "yes".
But I'm with muffled - i don't think it will be.
I will miss HF.
Maddie
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2007, at 18:59:07
In reply to Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2007, at 19:35:29
> Does anyone else* feel and wish * HFs block would be OVER RIDDEN?
I'm sure she appreciate the support, but I think I'm going to let it stand.
Bob
Posted by ElaineM on January 23, 2007, at 15:15:50
In reply to Re: HFs block, posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2007, at 18:59:07
Sorry, I have two more questions:
1.
I was just confused cause I couldn't find any of the aforementioned warnings to be civil that she is said to have received. I remember warnings that led up to her previous block that she served, but no other new official PBC warnings (at least, not in the subject title). To be fair I find the length of threads a bit too much for me to follow sometimes (seriously) so it's possible I've missed it - perhaps someone could point it out to me if it's there then? Or (if not there), are PBC's carried over from build-ups that led to prior blocks that were served?
=====
2.
I'm trying to see how the use of "feel" was perhaps not delivered in a civil way and wonder if she should have said "She feels harassed when..." rather than saying another's actions were harassment? Or no?
But then, if it's not alright to say what she said, "I felt like the subject of harassment" isn't that the same as saying, "I felt harassed..."? Cause it looks, to me, like the formula: "Say how you feel about a poster's words". Can someone show me what I've missed, and rephrase appropriately?
Is that feeling-word not allowed altogether? Cause other words are similar, for example, "ignored" (which many of us have used) implies there is an ignorer, the same as feeling "harassed" implies that there's a harasser. Is that also not permitted to say? [I'm asking honestly - I don't know what advice or language is allowed to be given and used at all now.]thanks for whomever helps, El
Posted by Glydin on January 23, 2007, at 17:12:54
In reply to Re: HFs block - related questions, posted by ElaineM on January 23, 2007, at 15:15:50
> Sorry, I have two more questions:
>
> 1.
> I was just confused cause I couldn't find any of the aforementioned warnings to be civil that she is said to have received. I remember warnings that led up to her previous block that she served, but no other new official PBC warnings (at least, not in the subject title). To be fair I find the length of threads a bit too much for me to follow sometimes (seriously) so it's possible I've missed it - perhaps someone could point it out to me if it's there then? Or (if not there), are PBC's carried over from build-ups that led to prior blocks that were served?
> =====~~~ Hi Elaine,
Over time, I've seen just about all scenerios I can come up with regarding blocks - I've seen folks return after a block to an almost immediate block with no PBC's, even a block after some time has passed without PCB's if previously blocked. Then, I've seem warnings without blocks in the same situations. Whew....
I don't know how that really works except it seems to be a adm. judgement call - situation by situation. (don't slay the messenger please, I'm just noting what I have observed and think is going on)
Anyways, I'm remain confused over the giving and not giving of blocks. I'm thinking it's going to remain that way for me.
Glydin
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2007, at 1:04:44
In reply to Re: HFs block - related questions, posted by ElaineM on January 23, 2007, at 15:15:50
> 1.
> I was just confused cause I couldn't find any of the aforementioned warnings to be civil that she is said to have received.We don't always re-warn each time. I'd like them just to remember after the first time.
> 2.
> I'm trying to see how the use of "feel" was perhaps not delivered in a civil way and wonder if she should have said "She feels harassed when..." rather than saying another's actions were harassment?Right, if I say something about my feelings, that's an I-statement, but if I say something about another's actions, that's a them-statement.
> But then, if it's not alright to say what she said, "I felt like the subject of harassment" isn't that the same as saying, "I felt harassed..."?
> Is that feeling-word not allowed altogether? Cause other words are similar, for example, "ignored" (which many of us have used) implies there is an ignorer, the same as feeling "harassed" implies that there's a harasser.It's close, but not exactly the same. If I say I feel ignored, that doesn't necessarily imply you're an ignorer, maybe you just didn't hear me. See also:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Bob
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 24, 2007, at 9:52:05
In reply to Re: related questions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2007, at 1:04:44
Dr. Bob,
But that is part of the problem. Sometimes you are so hurt by "them" actions you can't express your own feelings. All you see, feel is what has been done to you.
MidnightBlue
Posted by ElaineM on January 24, 2007, at 22:36:58
In reply to Re: related questions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2007, at 1:04:44
> 1.
> I was just confused cause I couldn't find any of the aforementioned warnings to be civil that she is said to have received.***We don't always re-warn each time. I'd like them just to remember after the first time.
Thanks for letting me know that they *are* ideally supposed to be cumulative. I was unaware. [I had been confused cause I couldn't find a post-block PBC for her.] But the instances for when muliple PBC's stating the same infraction are allowed to build up, and the instances for when no new PBC's are needed to result in a block, is ultimately an arbitrary decision. I think?
Okay, at least I'm in the loop now - just trying to find out (for myself) how many rules are more strictly formulaic and rigid, and which ones can be modified by the teams personal judgement calls, and result in exceptions.2.
>>>>"I felt like the subject of harassment"
>>>>"I felt harassed..."So are these the same statement, or not? (Sorry, it didn't say)
***It's close, but not exactly the same. If I say I feel ignored, that doesn't necessarily imply you're an ignorer, maybe you just didn't hear me.
Well, I probably would've just said, "i feel unheard" in that case, but, fair enough :)
And I'll assume since you approved my shot at rephrasing, that using the word "harassed" *is* always alright if used as part of a well structured I-statement.thanks, El
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2007, at 0:28:39
In reply to last little bit and I may have it » Dr. Bob, posted by ElaineM on January 24, 2007, at 22:36:58
> But that is part of the problem. Sometimes you are so hurt by "them" actions you can't express your own feelings. All you see, feel is what has been done to you.
>
> MidnightBlueI agree, that's part of the problem...
--
> the instances for when muliple PBC's stating the same infraction are allowed to build up, and the instances for when no new PBC's are needed to result in a block, is ultimately an arbitrary decision. I think?
How about "judgment call" instead? :-)
> > I felt like the subject of harassment
> > I felt harassed...
>
> So are these the same statement, or not? (Sorry, it didn't say)They're close, but not exactly the same. Since "harassment" refers to the other's actions, while "harassed" refers to the person's own feelings.
> I'll assume since you approved my shot at rephrasing, that using the word "harassed" *is* always alright if used as part of a well structured I-statement.
>
> ElWell, I don't know about "always". For example, what about:
> I felt harassed by Elaine.
Bob
Posted by ElaineM on January 25, 2007, at 9:27:05
In reply to Re: related questions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2007, at 0:28:39
<<<<<"....that using the word 'harassed' *is* always alright if used as part of a well structured I-statement".
>>>>>>Well, I don't know about "always". For example, what about:
*** I felt harassed by Elaine.
Hence the "well-structured" part - though perhaps if would've been clearer if I'd said "civil", cause I realize now the "well" and "civil" certainly aren't always interchangeable.
thanks for the other stuff.
peace, El
Posted by fayeroe on January 25, 2007, at 9:38:47
In reply to Re: related questions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2007, at 1:04:44
**"We don't always re-warn each time. I'd like them just to remember after the first time."**
when someone is hurting, memory isn't always their strong point. it was apparent to me that the poster was hurt. was it apparent to you, bob?
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2007, at 9:42:00
In reply to Re: related questions, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2007, at 0:28:39
> Well, I don't know about "always". For example, what about:
>
> > I felt harassed by Elaine.
>
> BobDoes it make a sentence civil to merely leave the subject implied rather than directly stated? So that in the same post "I felt harassed" would be an ok statement about an internal state while "I felt harassed by xxx." would not be a reference to an internal state? It would seem pretty easy to drop the subject, not name names, but still be conveying exactly the same thing.
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=harassed
Perhaps modern common useage of the word "harassed" is guiding my understanding here. But as Elaine pointed out, "I felt unheard" sound like a perfectly civil "I" statement while "I felt ignored" does not appear to me to have the same meaning since "I felt ignored" sounds as if there is an implied subject. I admit it's better than "I've been ignored." But ignored doesn't sound like an internal state, it sounds like.... oooh, I need my husband. Grammar is his hobby. Something about verbs?
Is there some sort of SAT exam answer to
Unheard is to ignored as xxxx is to harassed?
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2007, at 1:11:59
In reply to Re: related questions » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2007, at 9:42:00
> as Elaine pointed out, "I felt unheard" sound like a perfectly civil "I" statement while "I felt ignored" does not appear to me to have the same meaning since "I felt ignored" sounds as if there is an implied subject. I admit it's better than "I've been ignored." But ignored doesn't sound like an internal state, it sounds like.... oooh, I need my husband.
Hmm, is the difference that "ignored" would be deliberate, but "unheard" wouldn't necessarily be?
Bob
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