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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on December 31, 2006, at 10:09:34
In reply to Re: disempowerment...for Bob » fayeroe, posted by fayeroe on December 31, 2006, at 10:03:24
i made a mistake. i'm sorry. it wasn't HF who was talking about disempowerment....it was LlurpsieBlossom.......pat
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 15:29:57
In reply to Re: disempowerment, posted by fayeroe on December 31, 2006, at 10:00:01
> > > i want to know what your rationale is about your policies that cause that feeling.............please don't answer with a question, okay?????????????????????
> >
> > Sorry, but I don't think I can answer without knowing which policies those are...
>
> you're the only one who does KNOW what the policies are.Sorry, I know the polices here, but I don't know which ones cause a feeling of disempowerment...
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on January 1, 2007, at 19:20:29
In reply to Re: disempowerment, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 15:29:57
> > > > i want to know what your rationale is about your policies that cause that feeling.............please don't answer with a question, okay?????????????????????
> > >
> > > Sorry, but I don't think I can answer without knowing which policies those are...
> >
> > you're the only one who does KNOW what the policies are.
>
> Sorry, I know the polices here, but I don't know which ones cause a feeling of disempowerment...
>
> Bobsame song, second verse.
> a feeling of disenfranchisement and disempowerment that I get when I spend too much time on the Admin board.
> I got frustrated, because I sensed a contradiction on your part- I sensed that you wish to get feedback from users, but that you also wish to limit decision making. It is equally frustrating that we are very rarely privy to your rationale for making changes. Even major, dramatic changes are often announced like: I'm trying out a new blocking system; or, what do the deputies think? or, let's try this out for now.
>
> If you could explain your reasoning a little bit better, it would help ME to understand whether you are more flexible in terms of some policy changes vs. others. It would help me understand what kind of data and feedback informs your decisions. It would help me understand that making suggestions on the Administration board is not an exercise in futile whining, but that our suggestions are considered seriously.I think it's easy to feel disempowered here, and that may be what makes this hard for some people. It may trigger them.
But it's not a contradiction to want input on a decision and also still to want to make that decision oneself. Better to ask for input than not. But asking for input, and considering it seriously, doesn't necessarily mean delegating authority.
In some situations, however, being asked what you want does mean being able to decide what you get, and people may assume that's the case here. It usually isn't, but OTOH sometimes it is, so I guess that could be confusing. We may be moving toward a more democratic structure, but we're not there yet.
If you'd like to know what my rationale is, or if I'm open to a change, please just ask.
Bob
What is your rationale about this????????????
Posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 20:40:41
In reply to Re: disempowerment » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on January 1, 2007, at 19:20:29
> I got frustrated, because I sensed a contradiction on your part- I sensed that you wish to get feedback from users, but that you also wish to limit decision making. It is equally frustrating that we are very rarely privy to your rationale for making changes. Even major, dramatic changes are often announced like: I'm trying out a new blocking system; or, what do the deputies think? or, let's try this out for now.
> If you could explain your reasoning a little bit better, it would help ME to understand whether you are more flexible in terms of some policy changes vs. others. It would help me understand what kind of data and feedback informs your decisions. It would help me understand that making suggestions on the Administration board is not an exercise in futile whining, but that our suggestions are considered seriously.Fayroe, can I try to rephrase this and you tell me if this is what you are saying?
Bob, you ask for feeback sometimes but seldom appear to take the info we give into your descion making. So why ask for feedback at all? Its frustrating.
Decisions seem to just appear magically, with no reasons given as to how you have come to that decision. We would like to know how they came about..
If we knew more about you and your thinking processes Bob, we might better be able to communicate with you. Cuz at this point it is very difficult. You are very closed, and confusing as a result.So Fayroe, are you asking Bob to explain his rationale as to specific decisions he makes?
I guess I a little confused here too.
MuufledFOR BOB:
>But it's not a contradiction to want input on a decision and also still to want to make that decision oneself.*of course, but we often wonder whether you even take input into consideration AT ALL. Or are we just flapping our gums? Or typing our keys I guess I should say.
>Better to ask for input than not.
**I don't think this is true AT ALL Bob. I think you should ONLY ask for input if you are seriously going to consider it.....otherwise it results in...frustration...
But asking for input, and considering it seriously,
doesn't necessarily mean delegating authority.
**Now tell me where THE HELL did THAT come from?????????????
Nobody said NOTHING bout delegating authority!!!!!!
We just want to be heard and acknowleged in more verbose and concrete ways. We want to be included informationally into why you do the things you do here. HOW your decisions were made. And WHY do we? Cuz we care about this site, but we see things that come up again and again, and are hurtful, all in the name of not hurting......
Muffled
Posted by notfred on January 3, 2007, at 13:14:21
In reply to Re: disempowerment/Fayroe/Bob, posted by muffled on January 1, 2007, at 20:40:41
"FOR BOB:
>But it's not a contradiction to want input on a decision and also still to want to make that decision oneself.*of course, but we often wonder whether you even take input into consideration AT ALL. Or are we just flapping our gums? Or typing our keys I guess I should say."
What about getting Dr bob to change the way he figures block times and how he rounds ? That happened due to our input. So the answer to this:
"whether you even take input into consideration AT ALL" is that he does make changes based on our input.It seems to me some have selective memory, and only remember the times Dr Bob did not take our
input and do as we want.
Posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 13:30:22
In reply to Re: disempowerment/Fayroe/Bob, posted by notfred on January 3, 2007, at 13:14:21
> "FOR BOB:
> It seems to me some have selective memory, and only remember the times Dr Bob did not take our
> input and do as we want.**Oh SOME eh, selective memory??? Like ME mebbe????????? I DO have memory issues :-(.....oh notfred, you skirting awful close to them magic civility lines....I could be feeling dissed by what you said...but I will get over it of course. If you apologised I'd feel even better. And we could set an example of well managed civility WITHOUT the intervention of Bob being requiered.
Anyhow, if you look at my many other posts, you will see that MANY times I have said myself that there HAS been change, and that IS heartening, and thats why I haven't given up. BUT, there needs to be more change, and I am trying very hard to try and make Bob understand my POV as I am not the only one who feels the way I do. I feel very strongly bout the length of blocks. And some blocks I just do not understand :(
I feel part of the problem is that we feel rather NOT heard by Bob often times. His answers are often confusing and just lead to more questions. I find myself quite frustrated in trying to communicate with him.
Posted by notfred on January 3, 2007, at 14:55:00
In reply to :-( » notfred, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 13:30:22
"BUT, there needs to be more change, and I am trying very hard to try and make Bob understand my POV as I am not the only one who feels the way I do."
Well I think the problem is not that Dr Bob does not understand the hurt some feel when blocked.
People can hear you but choose to not take actions
based on what they have heard. I think a different
tatctic is needed in this case."I feel very strongly bout the length of blocks."
Yes I agree the way length works is having an unintended effect of giving longer and longer blocks to persons who seem key to these kind of boards. Minor offences should not advance the length factor at all or to a lessor degree.
I like Dinah's concept of a hierarchy of offences.
"And some blocks I just do not understand :("I think you have to accept that 2 people will sometimes see things differently.
"I feel part of the problem is that we feel rather NOT heard by Bob often times. His answers are often confusing and just lead to more questions."
Dr Bob gets a lot of questions. A whole lot. Then
each answer is picked a part and generates more questions. In some cases longer answers might cut down on the number of questions generated. But not here. Not by a long shot.
Posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 15:43:57
In reply to :-( » notfred, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 13:30:22
I feel annoyed.
I will go now.
Posted by fayeroe on January 3, 2007, at 18:55:03
In reply to Re: :-(, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 15:43:57
> I feel annoyed.
> I will go now.((muffled))
Posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 19:13:38
In reply to Re: :-(, posted by notfred on January 3, 2007, at 14:55:00
> People can hear you but choose to not take actions
> based on what they have heard. I think a different
> tatctic is needed in this case.*what tactic?
> Yes I agree the way length works is having an unintended effect of giving longer and longer blocks to persons who seem key to these kind of boards. Minor offences should not advance the length factor at all or to a lessor degree.
> I like Dinah's concept of a hierarchy of offences.*Yes thats a good idea. Would be a whole lots less complicated if it was just a week, thats that. I would think if a person kept getting repeatedly blocked they'd either clue in or go away.
> "And some blocks I just do not understand :("
>
> I think you have to accept that 2 people will sometimes see things differently.**I guess part of what I don't understand is that this is a mental health community, we will have 'moments'. I would expect it. But the big punishments are almost like punishment against us cuz we not well...:( , not good enough, bad....
> Dr Bob gets a lot of questions. A whole lot. Then
> each answer is picked a part and generates more questions. In some cases longer answers might cut down on the number of questions generated. But not here. Not by a long shot.**I'm sure Bob gets lots og=f questions and it generates more questions, BECAUSE HE'S NOT CLEAR IN THE FIRST PLACE....
What do you mean by 'not here. Not by a long shot.'
I don't know what you mean by these blanket statements? Am I an especially annoying person? Is that it? Or memebe its my selective memory problems that cause me to be this way? Mebbe I am a sh*t head. I have always thot it so. My T trys to tell me otherwise, but she supposed to. But ther's no vested intrest here, no job, so mebbe its true.
Probably.
WTF.
I just should've stayed away.
Posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 23:50:54
In reply to Re: :-( » notfred, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 19:13:38
Flew off the handle.
Protection jumped up.
Automatic......must hurt myself not others.
Mostly I don't do that so much now.
Sorry. I f*cked up.
PROTECTION STAY AWAY.
Sh*t.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 23:51:49
In reply to Re: :-( Sorry, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 23:50:54
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2007, at 1:56:24
In reply to Re: :-( » notfred, posted by muffled on January 3, 2007, at 19:13:38
> the big punishments are almost like punishment against us cuz we not well...:( , not good enough, bad....
>
> Mebbe I am a sh*t head. I have always thot it so.Posters shouldn't take blocks personally, they don't mean I don't like them or think they're bad people.
Bob
Posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 8:36:37
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2007, at 1:56:24
> Posters shouldn't take blocks personally, they don't mean I don't like them or think they're bad people.
>
> Bob**No posters SHOULDN'T take blocks personally. No they really shouldn't. :(..............................but I can't help it.
mebbe this is a bad place for this poster.
:(
Posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 8:45:05
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2007, at 1:56:24
> > the big punishments are almost like punishment against us cuz we not well...:( , not good enough, bad....
> >
> > Mebbe I am a sh*t head. I have always thot it so.
>
> Posters shouldn't take blocks personally, they don't mean I don't like them or think they're bad people.
>
> Bob**I don't care what you think of me, I care what I think of me,
I care bout what I know is inside.
I want to be good.
I want that which is bad to not be in me.
I truly don't care what you think of me.
I just fear your power.
Muffled.
Posted by notfred on January 4, 2007, at 9:19:41
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 8:36:37
If we did not come here and post there would be no psycobabble. And any "power" Dr Bob has ends when we stop coming here. It also ends once we stop fretting
about every little that happens here. This is not real life here it is just an internet board.
Posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 9:31:30
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by notfred on January 4, 2007, at 9:19:41
> If we did not come here and post there would be no psycobabble. And any "power" Dr Bob has ends when we stop coming here. It also ends once we stop fretting
> about every little that happens here. This is not real life here it is just an internet board.**The people here ARE real people. Do not ever forget that notfred.
WHAT exactly ARE you trying to say to me?
I am NOT so smart. But I am trying to be good.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 4, 2007, at 9:59:23
In reply to Re: disempowerment, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 15:29:57
Friends,
To those interested in this thread, I could offer you a link via email that coould have the potential IMO to help in regards to aspects of this thread that IMO are those that could be helpfull in the aspect of mental health here.
The link is about the use of (redacted by respondant) techniques. I think that if a person could recognize those tactics, that they could be better able to deal with any psychological and emotional aspects that have the potential IMO to arrise out of those tactics being used.
I am unsure if the new rules made here when I rejoined the forum could allow me to post the link or not here, so at this time, you could email me if you like for the link.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by AuntieMel on January 4, 2007, at 14:46:17
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by muffled on January 4, 2007, at 8:36:37
Awwwwww
We think you're good enough. Better than good enough.
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 4, 2007, at 17:01:42
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2007, at 1:56:24
Dr. Bob,
Maybe posters shouldn't take blocks personally, BUT THEY DO!
MidnightBlue
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2007, at 4:18:35
In reply to Re: not being good enough » Dr. Bob, posted by MidnightBlue on January 4, 2007, at 17:01:42
> Maybe posters shouldn't take blocks personally, BUT THEY DO!
I know. It's a chance to learn (or to practice) not taking things too personally?
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on January 6, 2007, at 7:18:44
In reply to Re: not being good enough, posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2007, at 4:18:35
> > Maybe posters shouldn't take blocks personally, BUT THEY DO!
>
> I know. It's a chance to learn (or to practice) not taking things too personally?
>
> Bobbeing able to not take things too personally is a good thing.
however, when you've had a troubled childhood, as many here have, that can be extremely difficult for a poster.
it doesn't even have to stem from childhood, it can be from an abusive relationship, etc. and a person will learn that "I" can't do anything right....thus, being blocked magnifies the struggles that someone could be going through.
being blocked from a group of your peers doesn't seem to me to be acceptable except in major cases. the length of your blocks are very troubling, in most cases.
remember the "special school" that the real troublemakers went to in highschool? i don't remember any of those kids rebounding with great positive attitudes. i remember a group of hurt/angry kids.
p.s., bob, you never did answer my question about your rationale concerning the posters feeling so disempowered here...but that's okay. that doesn't mean i don't like you or think you are a bad person.
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2007, at 10:08:48
In reply to Re: not being good enough » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on January 6, 2007, at 7:18:44
Chuckle. You should see what Dr. Bob has told me over the years about not taking things personally. lol. I'd have to be Data from Star Trek TNG.
I hope you don't mind my sticking my nose in, but I've found that when I'm at an impasse with Dr. Bob, it really does help to restate my question, because as likely as not he really doesn't understand what I want from him.
So if it's ok with you, maybe we could bandy about the question until we hit the right combination of words? Is the question "You ask for input, but we don't really see results from our input. You seem to do things that we didn't ask for and not do things that we did ask for? And that leaves us wondering how what we say to you has any impact on you?"
I wasn't entirely sure what you were asking either, to tell the truth, since the original question was asked in a context a while back.
I've always thought it would be nice if Dr. Bob restated the question in a way that he thought it meant, and then asked if that was what was meant. But I guess that's harder to do asynchronously.
Hey. Maybe Dr. Bob could schedule a once a month or once every other month chat in Chat with the posters where things could be discussed real time, and meanings could be teased out synchronously.
Posted by fayeroe on January 6, 2007, at 11:57:17
In reply to Re: not being good enough » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2007, at 10:08:48
*****"You ask for input, but we don't really see results from our input. You seem to do things that we didn't ask for and not do things that we did ask for? And that leaves us wondering how what we say to you has any impact on you?"*****
that's perfect.........we'll leave it as is.......
thanks, Dinah. my frustration was disabling my brain..........
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2007, at 8:56:38
In reply to Re: not being good enough » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on January 6, 2007, at 11:57:17
Well, that's not to say it will work. But if not, restate again until you find the key. ;)
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