![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 8:53:46
Friends,
I have received many emails requesting the URLs for the statements that have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings that have not been sanctioned equally, since I thought that I could not post them here. These statements have already been determined to be acceptable by the nature that Dr. Hsiung has not applied a sanction to them that they are uncivl, and members could be led to think that since there is no sanction to those statements, that they are civil. So it is not a question as to if they are civil or not, for they have been allowed to stand, and there is precedent for the potential for others to think that if a statement is allowed to stand, that Dr. Hsiung considers the statement to be civil.
Many emails to me ask me if I am seeking that the forum be closed. That is not my intention, for what I am seeking is that the university of Chicago post a disclaimer that they do not endorse statements to be civil that have the potential to defame Jews. I am asking that each and every one of those have a notation to them to that effect. The statement after Dr. Hsiung's email address only says that the university of Chicago is not the owner of the site. I would like the statement to go on and say that the university does not endorse any statement that could arrouse antisemitic feelings that has been allowed to stand.
If the university will not do such, then I am asking Dr. Hsiung to change the name of the forum so that there could be a complete separation from the forum, since others could think that the univerity is in some way party to the forum by the nature that the forum was thought, by at least me, to be a research project involving the uniiversity in some way.
The issue is as to if Dr. Hsiung has freedom of speech and he most certainly does, even though he limits the member's freedom of speech in his rules in his FAQ. But if the university is involved, can the university limit the freedom of speech to its students or its guests?
You see, I consider myself and others here to be guests of the university by comming into the forum that I think has the endorsment of the university untill they say otherwise. And as a guest of the university, I feel that any allowing of statements that have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings is illegal. This is because the forum's rule is that I can not post the foundation of Judaism, yet the foundation of antisemitism in the form of allowing statements that accuse the jews of killing Christ, is allowed. I base this on affirimative action laws that prohibit a university from promoting anything that has the potential to advance racial inequality, or to defame minority religious or ethnic peoples.
If you would like to email me about this, I would welcome such
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 9:17:55
In reply to What Lou is asking for, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 8:53:46
Friends,
Let us reason together. Would Dr. Hsiung be allowed to have a banner above the door to his classroom at the university, if he has a classroom, to read, "He that does not honour the Son does not honour the Father"?, or "You must believe in Jesus and that he was slain by the Jews"?
Well, I do not think so. For this went to the U.S Supreme court in "Bob Jones University" . This case gave the courts opinion as to if a university, even private, could have a racist doctrine. This was an IRS decision, but there are principles invoved in the case that carry to other aspects of universitys. One is if a univerity can promote what is "not in the public's interest".(the issue in "Bob Jones" was if they could exclude or bar students from enrolloing if they held that a white women could marry a black man). So the court decided that racism in Bob Jones university was not in the public's interst, even though it was a private school. You can read the decision with a search for such.
But that is only one case involving universitys in relation to racial and religious equality. The issue here is if the forum can restrain the Jewish poster from posting the foundation if Judaism,which is the Jewish perpective, while allowing the foundation of Christianity, which is the Christian perspevtive, to be posted without restraint.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 9:38:49
In reply to Re: What Lou is asking for, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 9:17:55
At the bottom of every page it says:
"Owned and operated by Robert Hsiung and not the University of Chicago."
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 9:46:05
In reply to Re: What Lou is asking for, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 9:38:49
> At the bottom of every page it says:
>
> "Owned and operated by Robert Hsiung and not the University of Chicago."I hit the button too soon.
Given the above statement it means the uni has
**nothing** to do with this site. Nothing means NOTHING. You can ask all you want for the uni to put a statement here but they cannot as this site has nothing to do with the uni.**NOTHING**
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:21:41
In reply to Re: What Lou is asking for, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 9:46:05
Friends,
It is written here that one thinks that the statement after Dr. Hsiung'd email, ie {owned and operated by Robert Hsiung and not the university of Chicago} means that the university has nothing to do with the site.
Really? Does that statement say that the university does not endorse the site? It says that they are not the owner, but IMO that does not mean that they are also saying that they do not endorse the site.
This is why I am asking the university to include a disclaimer that they do not endorse the statements that have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings and foster defmation toward Jews that have been allowed to stand unsanctioned.
I would like for a university representative to enter the forum and post after each and every post that I send them that could foster antisemitism to post something like;
>>U of Chicago's repudiation of Dr. Hsiung's allowing statements that could foster defamation toward Jews>>U of Chicago rep
To all forum members,
As a representative of the university of Chicago, we want you to know that we do not endorse this being allowed to go unsanctioned because it has the potential to foster defamation toward Jews.
U of Chicgo rep
Now if the university was to do something like that, then I think that they would be showing that they are separate from the forum. As of now, it is my great conviction that the disclaimer as of now is not sufficiant to say that the university does not endorse those statements.
You see, could we keep in mind that there is that members could be led to think that those type of statements are civil, according to DR. Hsiung, on the basis that he has let them stand and not wrote that they are uncivil. Thearfore one could conclude that the statemnt,[...he that does not honour the Son does not Honour the Father...] is a civil statemnt here, for it stands unaddressed, even after I have requested that it be addressed. So one could cite that here and it is civil according to this forum, because it was allowed already to stand unaddessed. One could also cite that [..you must believe in Jesus Christ and that he was slain by the Jews..], for that quote has been left unaddressed also, so it is civil according to this forum's convention that if Dr. hsiung allows it to stand, even after I request for it to be addressed, then it is civil.
Now there is much more to that than I can post here now that I am still investigating. You see, that quote was altered or minipulated to revert to a page that said,"not found" after it was posted and is in other data bases throughout the world as it was orinally posted. I have talked to the technical department of the LDS and they say that they would never do anything like that and that it could not happen on its own.
I will say more about this when I get back more infomation about it.
Lou
Posted by sunnydays on August 19, 2006, at 10:41:51
In reply to Lou's response to notfred's post » notfred, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:21:41
I don't think the University of Chicago is at all involved in the forum, so I think it would be unrealistic and a lot of extra work for someone who is not paid to do so for a representative to post on the forum. Even if they were paid to do so, I don't think that would be keeping with the spirit of the forum. Sometimes I just have to remember that Dr. Bob is the administrator here and nothing anyone does will change that. The U of Chicago has no role in the administration of the site, so I don't understand why it would be necessary for the university to be involved here at all. Just because Dr. Bob works for them does not mean that they even have to endorse or not endorse anything about this site. It is Dr. Bob's site, not theirs, so really they have no choice in what is on this site. And since it is not their site, I don't think they would even be able to endorse or not endorse the site.
sunnydays
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:44:44
In reply to Lou's response to notfred's post » notfred, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:21:41
Friends,
Another post here that is considered to be civil because I have requested that it be addressed and my request has been denied, is;
[..one of the top 10 worst reasons for a religion is if it has its agenda not centered in Christ..]
Jews do not have their religion centerd in Christ. I am a Jew and what mental health forum could allow that statement to remain as civil? Would in your opinion John Grohol's forum allow that? Would 1 in 4 allow that. Would belief.net allow that? How about Healthy Place? You could ask them if you like.
But that statement is allowed here and is in data bases all over the world unsanctioned.
And where on this earth is that statement being promoted by its government? And where in the history of the world was that used by antisemites to justify their murder of Jewish children.
Lou
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 10:45:26
In reply to Lou's response to notfred's post » notfred, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:21:41
Lou,
It seems to me you have endless requirements for this site to suit **you**. perhaps this site is not well suited for you. This site is not here for your sole use.
You have been making the same requests for years, of this site. You go over the same material again and again, with no sucess. What does this tell you ?
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 10:47:59
In reply to Re: Lou's response to notfred's post, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:44:44
Would in your opinion John Grohol's forum allow that? Would 1 in 4 allow that. Would belief.net allow that? How about Healthy Place? You could ask them if you like.
Those are not run by Dr Bob, their rules of opperation have no bearing on how this site is run.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:53:34
In reply to Re: Lou's response to notfred's post, posted by sunnydays on August 19, 2006, at 10:41:51
SD,
You wrote,[..I do not think that the u of Chi is involved...].
But I think that it has endorsed the site in its conception because the server was on university property when the site started and there was no disclaimer after his email and research was being conducted involving the forum.
Then the server was moved,then came the disclaimer, which I think is lacking to say that the u does not endorse the content of the site.
If the disclaimer said,"we do not endorse the content of this site" then that could be different.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 10:56:39
In reply to Re: Lou's response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 10:45:26
notfred,
Please do not post to me
Lou
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 11:11:45
In reply to Re: Lou's response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 10:45:26
> Lou,
>
> It seems to me you have endless requirements for this site to suit **you**. perhaps this site is not well suited for you. This site is not here for your sole use.
>
> You have been making the same requests for years, of this site. You go over the same material again and again, with no sucess. What does this tell you ?You can't blame a guy for trying, though. I think it demonstrates something of the character of the owner of this site to allow such a train of petitions to be posted and archived. I am glad someone is monitoring the boards for iniquities.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 11:25:11
In reply to Re: Lou's response to notfred's post, posted by sunnydays on August 19, 2006, at 10:41:51
Friends,
As if there is involvment by the u of Chi in the site, I think that there is because I do not think that the disclaimer now says that they do not have an involvment, but that Dr. Hsiung is the owner.
But there is the Gayyssot Act of 1990 which says that it is illegal in France to have;
[...any discrimination founded on membership to an ethnic group ...or religion...is prohibited...]
One in France that is a university teacher can not claim freedom of speech to be exempt from that law. The law is to prevent possible antisemitism from being fostered there.
Here is a link to the Gayssot Act of 1990
Lou
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:27:28
In reply to response to notfred's post, posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 11:11:45
>
> You can't blame a guy for trying, though.
Please don't tell my how I should think or feel.
I think it demonstrates something of the character of the owner of this site to allow such a train of petitions to be posted and archived.
Or poor administration that allows this board to
be hijacked every year or so when lous block is over.I am glad someone is monitoring the boards for iniquities.
>Being a jew myself, I cringe at how Judaism is being used here, in the context claiming antisemitism when people do not agree with Lou.
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:30:31
In reply to University involvment-the Gayssot Act, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 11:25:11
> Friends,
> As if there is involvment by the u of Chi in the site, I think that there is because I do not think that the disclaimer now says that they do not have an involvment, but that Dr. Hsiung is the owner.The uni does not have anything to do with this site.
> But there is the Gayyssot Act of 1990 which says that it is illegal in France to have;
> [...any discrimination founded on membership to an ethnic group ...or religion...is prohibited...]The board is not in France.
Posted by crazy teresa on August 19, 2006, at 11:51:13
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:27:28
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2006, at 11:52:13
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:27:28
> Or poor administration that allows this board to
> be hijacked every year or so when lous block is over.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override or upgrade deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 11:56:58
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:27:28
> > You can't blame a guy for trying, though.
> Please don't tell my how I should think or feel.I didn't think I had done that, but I apologize if that's how my words were to be interpreted.
> > I think it demonstrates something of the character of the owner of this site to allow such a train of petitions to be posted and archived.
> Or poor administration that allows this board to
> be hijacked every year or so when lous block is over.I think the rules for posting must be consistent and apply equally to everyone. How would you propose that the board be made impervious to hijacking?
> > I am glad someone is monitoring the boards for iniquities.
> Being a jew myself, I cringe at how Judaism is being used here, in the context claiming antisemitism when people do not agree with Lou.I don't think that all of his contentions revolve around disagreements. However, I do worry sometimes that the persistent claiming of antisemitism where there may be none might yield a desensitization to the seriousness of the accusation, or perhaps even an unintentional arousal of antisemitism. I am not judging Lou Pilder's claims here, though.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 12:06:07
In reply to University involvment-the Gayssot Act, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 11:25:11
> But there is the Gayyssot Act of 1990
This act seemingly refers only to the denial of the existence of "crimes against humanity" and to discriminative membership practices. I see neither of these things here.
- Scott
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 12:11:01
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post » notfred, posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 11:56:58
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
(First Corinthians 13:1)how odd
of lou
to choose
psychobable
Posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2006, at 12:41:30
In reply to Re: University involvment-the Gayssot Act, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 11:30:31
Scott same thing I was gonna say this is the USA not France. Love Phillipa
Posted by laima on August 19, 2006, at 16:19:12
In reply to Re: University involvment-the Gayssot Act » notfred, posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2006, at 12:41:30
So- The U of C has nothing to do with the site, I gather? It's just that Dr. Bob happens to be a proff there. Does the site have anything to do with the University's servers?
Posted by Racer on August 19, 2006, at 17:50:31
In reply to Re: University involvment-the Gayssot Act, posted by laima on August 19, 2006, at 16:19:12
>
> So- The U of C has nothing to do with the site, I gather? It's just that Dr. Bob happens to be a proff there. Does the site have anything to do with the University's servers?
>No, the site has nothing to do with University of Chicago.
Years back, when the site first started -- back in 1998, I think it was -- this was one bulletin board in Dr Bob's space on the UofC server. But he moved it to his own domain years ago. At this point, there's no relation whatsoever with the university. In the beginning, it was in their domain, but was never their site in any way.
So, in the beginning, there was a very slight connection to the university -- kinda like if you put up a webpage in your web-space on your ISP's server it would have their name on it -- like "myname.earthlink.com" or "www.aol.com/myname." Otherwise, there was never any real connection to the university, and there's not even that connection now.
Hope that helps clear it up for you.
Posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 19:19:12
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post » notfred, posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 11:56:58
>
> I think the rules for posting must be consistent and apply equally to everyone. How would you propose that the board be made impervious to hijacking?
>You can't cover all bases with rules. Other MI boards (Psycentral, crazymeds) would of shut this down quickly.
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 19:39:55
In reply to Re: response to notfred's post, posted by notfred on August 19, 2006, at 19:19:12
>
> >
> > I think the rules for posting must be consistent and apply equally to everyone. How would you propose that the board be made impervious to hijacking?
> >
>
> You can't cover all bases with rules. Other MI boards (Psycentral, crazymeds) would of shut this down quickly.
How do they do that?
- Scott
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