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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lunesta on October 31, 2005, at 4:45:40
In reply to Re: please be civil » lunesta, posted by Dr. Bob on October 30, 2005, at 9:43:45
Dr Bob,
As of April 2005, Pfizer has been requested by the FDA to hand over data on neurontin related suicides and adverse reports due in part from so many people dying or attempted suicides from the drug and at the request of a large petition, an unusual and usually ineffective way to get the FDA's attention which tells you something about this seriousness of this.
They had 6 months to comply with this request, so Sept, last month. The FDA is reviewing this as we speak, as usual, slowly (like Vioxx, for example) - but is finally serious now that so many people have had suicides or sudden death or attempted suicides and many other adverse serious problems.
It is following almost exactly the same course as Vioxx and the black box warning on dangerous drugs.
I am confident enough to say that I am certain neurontin will get at least a black box warning, become a controlled substance and as the financial message board users say on neurontin who are investors and get the latest information from Pfizer - gabapentin is one of the current drugs being considered to be taken off the market completely just like Vioxx.
neurontin is in the top 5 of suicide rates/attempts of all FDA approved drugs.
Now I have tried to inform you as a doctor on why its important to hold knowledge to back up an opinion, especially one that you may see as a noun, or exaggerrated before you slap someone for it.
I would consider that drug poison, which was used as my adjective descriptive term of the drug, and an opinion that no one has to take without any continuing harrassment or pushing to a user whatsoever.
2 years ago I am sure someone said Vioxx was poison, maybe even here, and wow, there "taken wrong" opinioned description might have saved someone from death! Being discouraged of opinions does not make sense to me.
As a doctor perhaps you can talk to the people involved with neurontin, which really is not the issue but Dr. Russell Katz, director of the Division of Neuropharmacological Drug Products at the FDA and Dr. Robert Temple, associate director for medical policy for the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research will confirm that this drug, is indeed, being taken very seriously right now by the FDA (and the former who oversaw its development into 1992/93 will plain out on the phone tell you its poison and I will make a bet on that) and the data being reviewed, for one or more of the 3 options I said above that will happen to neurontin will in time, validate my poison adjectively used statement, and when it does perhaps this post will have saved some lives, and I hope that informed opinions are not discouraged because I may have just saved someone from lifelong agony or someone may now be discouraged from taking my opinion because of your warning.
All of the information is on the net (including ancedontal and formal), publications and from those 2 people at the FDA if anyone is interested in neurontins current review status and thinking there options over.
Now, is Vioxx poison? I would say yes and I think most everyone would now too. It was out many years before anything was done.I was giving my opinion trying to help someone avoid a Vioxx like problem in the future, with neurontin plain and simple.
My opinion is that neurontin is poison. It was being used adjectively not as a noun which I think was very obvious. If I have to say neurontin is poison and follow it up with (this is my opinoin by the way) then many posts here violate your policies because I can cite any post on any page right now with a similar adjective worded opinion being seen as an "exagerated claim".
"Vioxx is poison, please dont take it" - 2 years ago would have been an exagerrated claim based on your unthoughtout warning to me.
I hope that the Vioxx example person looked objectively at all the opinions and wasn't pushed away from the negative one because of a warning like you gave me. If i were them then, as you being a Dr., i would have trusted you and taken that Vioxx and be in a grave.
My point : dont selectively look at peoples negative view on a drug without evaluating if a negative opinion is an adjective, verb or noun and not assume is exageration or being to harsh.
If you cannot agree than please update your policy between adjective terms, nouns and you might need quite a few moderators in that case.
Thanks
lnc
Posted by slinky on October 31, 2005, at 10:09:48
In reply to Re: please be civil : neurontin, plz read., posted by lunesta on October 31, 2005, at 4:45:40
I think chocolate is poison..it's consumtion has a paradoxical effect on me and it provides no happy feelings for me..others swear by it's comforting seretonin qualities.
Marmite is lovely.
Posted by Nickengland on October 31, 2005, at 11:17:25
In reply to Re: please be civil : neurontin, plz read., posted by lunesta on October 31, 2005, at 4:45:40
Hi lunesta
Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with Neurontin (Gabapentin) It is one hell of a pain in the *ss to say the least when you take a drug to make you feel better, gain some relief and then the oppisite happens and the drug actually makes you worse.
I've had this myself, funnily enough (I have bipolar) and the actual 'approved' drugs (well as far as I know Lamictal isn't approved for bipolar depression in the UK, but it is in the US from what I understand) anyway when I took Lamictal the drug to me was as close to i've felt to being poisened, I was quite literally shaking, sweating, and at the same time was extreamly anxious and somewhat suicidal, or at least because of the effects of the drug I was getting those thoughts (but strangely there was a weird lift in my mood, but not a healthy one) - I was taking that drug in the depressed phase, and for me it made me worse so I stopped it ~ however I've read all over the internet and on here that the drug is excellent for treating depression people with or without bipolar, so like many, many of these drugs, the benzo's for example, quite literally a life saver for one person, and a potentially life threatening for another...
>but is finally serious now that so many people have had suicides or sudden death or attempted suicides and many other adverse serious problems.
This reminds me of a drug which has recieved lots of press over here about increased suicides / sucidal indealation and behaviour, the antidepressant Seroxat/Paxil - paroxetine. In a similar sense I think now that carries some kind of black box warning about increased suicidal behaviour, which is quite a contridiction in a sense as in one way when treating severe depression thats what it is attempting to prevent - not increase! Perhaps Neurontin/Gabapentin will in the future carry the same warning..
>gabapentin is one of the current drugs being considered to be taken off the market completely
Would you be able to offer any links to information about that?
>neurontin is in the top 5 of suicide rates/attempts of all FDA approved drugs.
Do you know what is in the top four?
With Paxil, according to this site the suicide rates were -
Accordingly, the results show that between 1993-2002, there were 6,000 and 19,000 persons in the US who were victims of Paxil-induced suicide
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/06/07.php
With Neurontin, according to the same site, the suicide rates were -
The FDA adverse drug event database, MedWatch, has received 258 documented fatal suicide reports involving patients prescribed Neurontin, for mostly unapproved, off-label uses
But ~
MedWatch reports represent only 1% to 10% of the actual adverse drug effects. Thus, 258 completed suicides represent between 2,580 suicides and 25,800 suicides attributed to Neurontin.
http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/04/06.php
The drugs from what I can see and the rates on the site show date starting from around 92 - 93' ? Although I could be wrong..
Its weird, but when reading about benzodiazepines when they were first introduced everyone seemed to think that were the cure all for everything, then slowly but surely the stories of addiction and so on started to appear and then people thought diferently. The cycle sometimes starts to continue that now and again they are safe again - and then you here they're very dangerous.I don't know, I take Gabapentin and for me its probably the best psychiatric drug i've ever taken, Lamictal was one of the worst. When reading on babble I've sometimes seen that for some people Gabapentin is the worst thing for them, but yet Lamictal was the best. One mans poisen within psychiatric medication could well be another mans potential life saver? (or womans ;-)
It is sad about all the marketing to boost profits though, I read they had to pay $430 million when pleading guilty for.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2005, at 6:26:42
In reply to Re: please be civil : neurontin, plz read. » lunesta, posted by Nickengland on October 31, 2005, at 11:17:25
Hi,
Just wanted to let you know I consolidated the medication-related replies to the original thread on the meds board.Here is a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051031/msgs/574052.htmlThanks,
gg
Posted by Nickengland on November 1, 2005, at 7:53:50
In reply to Redirected to meds board » Nickengland, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2005, at 6:26:42
Thanks gg, no worries
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2005, at 1:42:33
In reply to Re: please be civil : neurontin, plz read., posted by lunesta on October 31, 2005, at 4:45:40
> I am certain neurontin will get at least a black box warning
If it were poison, would a black box warning even be a question?
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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